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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2 |
Does anyone know what was the standard method of training for law enforcement in the big departments was before the switch to semiautos?
Was it only an uninterrupted trigger pull? Was the interrupted trigger pull (staging) also taught? Was thumbing the hammer taught?
Serious questions.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Does anyone know what was the standard method of training for law enforcement in the big departments was before the switch to semiautos?
Was it only an uninterrupted trigger pull? Was the interrupted trigger pull (staging) also taught? Was thumbing the hammer taught?
Serious questions. Both. I think a lot of departments allowed single action at the 50 but it was frowned upon. By heterosexuals. Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,537 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,537 Likes: 1 |
They put hammers on DA revolvers for a reason, all right; to take advantage of a fine trigger pull when precision is needed.
A polished DA shooter can do fine work in the double action mode, but he'd get laughed off the range at a bullseye match.
If I have to make a shot in any situation that requires real precision, I'm shooting single action.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2 |
I don't doubt that at all regarding precision and SA.
I shoot my Security Six DA and SA on my own time.
Our training in the USMC had nothing to do with bullseye though, it was all combat shooting, hitting the FBI 'milk bottle' targets out to 25 yards. All DA, from the snapped holster, mod weaver, barricades, weak-hand, etc, etc.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
They put hammers on DA revolvers for a reason, all right; to take advantage of a fine trigger pull when precision is needed.
A polished DA shooter can do fine work in the double action mode, but he'd get laughed off the range at a bullseye match.
If I have to make a shot in any situation that requires real precision, I'm shooting single action. I don't know what classifies as "precision" but I sure as fugk don't see many PPC shooters thumbing the hammer from the 50. I also wouldn't want them aiming at my dick from the 50. And I got a small dick. Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
Double action revolvers are my favorite handguns, but I've never really focused hard on shooting them double action until a couple of years ago. My trigger control has improved but controlling the revolver is more difficult. Unless the grip is made of soft rubber like a Hogue monogrip or the old Lett grips that Ruger used to put on their GP100, I can't seem to control the squirm. With any wooden grip (except the huge old S&W target grips) the gun rotates clockwise (looking down at it) and jumps up in my fist incrementally. This, of course, causes my second shot to strike a different POI. I've tried gripping harder with different fingers and I've tried several different grips to no avail. I've considered getting full checkered wood grips from Herretts, but that's quite an investment. I'd rather improve my technique.
I really want to be able to use wood grips on my favorite Smiths, can anyone help? Probably I should mention that I have relatively small hands, so I can't use grips that cover the backstrap. Are you left handed? Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,537 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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They put hammers on DA revolvers for a reason, all right; to take advantage of a fine trigger pull when precision is needed.
A polished DA shooter can do fine work in the double action mode, but he'd get laughed off the range at a bullseye match.
If I have to make a shot in any situation that requires real precision, I'm shooting single action. I don't know what classifies as "precision" but I sure as fugk don't see many PPC shooters thumbing the hammer from the 50. I also wouldn't want them aiming at my dick from the 50. And I got a small dick. Dave LMAO In my mind 'precision. with a pistol is the ability to consistently hit the X or 10 ring of a bullseye target from 25-50 yards. I've shot PPC with some Distinguished Pin holders and got within a very few points one myself. A pack of smokes at 50 yards is in peril, if they're having a good day. Two handed. A polished bullseye shooter will do it one-handed firing single action.
Last edited by SargeMO; 01/31/17.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
So you're saying a PPC shooter's score will increase if they choose to shoot SA?
Dave
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2 |
It kind of depends on the purpose. Slow and deliberate with target ammo, or fast and furious with fighting ammo. Two very different things.
It's been 20 years since I left Quantico, but I'm trying to remember the course of fire we shot, here's my best memory,
This is with the Model 19, shooting 38 Spl +P 125 Hydra Shok. All from the snapped holster, body bladed, hands in the 'interview' position. Combat reloads included in the time, using a speedloader from a snapped pouch.
3 yards - 2-rounds in 2 seconds, six times (12 rounds)
7 yards - 12 rounds in 15 seconds
15 yards - 12 rounds in 20 seconds
25 yards - 12 rounds in 30 seconds, second cylinder weak-hand.
Anyway, that was the 'meat and potatoes' of our revolver qual, using the FBI Q target.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2 |
We used the uninterrupted trigger pull at the 3 and 7, and a quick 'stage and squeeze' at the 15 and 25.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
With mastery of an interrupted trigger pull, there is no need to break your shooting grip (to thumb the hammer). It's very fast, but still very deliberate.
It does require a serious commitment to training. I was taught to use the thumb of the supporting hand to cock the hammer on a double action revolver. No interrupting of grip.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
They put hammers on DA revolvers for a reason, all right; to take advantage of a fine trigger pull when precision is needed.
A polished DA shooter can do fine work in the double action mode, but he'd get laughed off the range at a bullseye match.
If I have to make a shot in any situation that requires real precision, I'm shooting single action. This.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
If taught properly DA shooting isn't very hard and I find it more accurate than SA shooting... 20 yards with a 5" 57... ![[Linked Image]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/SMITH-WESSON/20140410_121139_zps2383701a.jpg) 3" 57... ![[Linked Image]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/SMITH-WESSON/SW657-Python010.jpg) 10 yards...58... ![[Linked Image]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/SMITH-WESSON/SW58-1964001.jpg) 1983...25 yards...the one out was called... ![[Linked Image]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/SMITH-WESSON/Pict0139.jpg) 2004...50'...blank target...first round was the aiming point for the next five. ![[Linked Image]](http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b77/RJM52/SMITH-WESSON/Pict0138.jpg) Mackay Sagebrush didn't believe it either until he tried it at 3-400 yards. I teach DA shooing during the NRA Basic Pistol Course. Hardly any of the students go back to SA and 60-95% of the students in a class have better groups DA... Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,848 Likes: 35 |
If taught properly DA shooting isn't very hard and I find it more accurate than SA shooting... If that were the case, the best bullseye competitors would all have edged out those who hadn't yet switched to exclusively shooting double action. In other words, it's clearly not the case that double action shooting has greater accuracy potential than single action.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2 |
RJM, nice. That's some great shooting.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
Either try it, or STFU. I'm not guessing and there's a member on the fire that's seen me shoot 1 1/2" groups at 100 yds with a revolver.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,084 Likes: 2 |
We used to have an open challenge to the Marine students to shoot the 'smiley face' on their Q target, like Mel Gibson did in the movie Lethal Weapon.
25 yards. Some looked sorta like a face....a messed up face, but a face nonetheless. It was just for fun to wind up the live-fire range after quals were done. Good times.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,847
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,847 |
They put the single action there as an option for a reason. No need for developing a staging technique for distance shooting. For the vast majority of self-defense utilization of a double action revolver, a straight through double action pull is the only appropriate method. YMMV. God damn, you're a frigging tool. From being an expert on goat and elk hunting, Dakota rifles etc in the early days to this crap. Amazing what you've done in your parent's basement. All that, and he's a mathematician too  : Figure $.05 per piece.
Don So a dollar per 200 cases?
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same." - Ronald Reagan
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 83
Campfire Greenhorn
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OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 83 |
Wow, there are some terrific DA shooters here. Any advice about gripping pressure? Anyone else had similar problems and found a solution?
Flave, no I'm right handed.
A man's capacity is usually relative to his goals.
-Karl Erlich, The Sea Chase
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
Daily quality dry-fire practice. Make every hammer release count and when you find you can no longer hold a good sight picture call it a day. Only practice and re-enforce a solid release, might only be a dozen or so "shots" the first time. You should be able to work up to 100's of dry-fire "shots", but put your full concentration and consider every "shot" as if your life depended on it. It's surprising how when you really concentrate on sight picture and squeezing off a shot it is very mentally fatiguing.
I'd say put in a couple weeks of quality dry-fire practice before your next range session and you should be amazed at the improvement in your shooting.
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