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Striker fired pistols are different...they are never "cocked" and the length of pull is a lot longer than a 1911 style semi-auto. Even so, for my carry gun I've gone to a striker fired Smith&Wesson M&P Shield (in .45 - waiting for the inevitable 10mm model) Actually, many striker fired pistols do ride fully cocked - specifically the M&P series. That long trigger pull in an M&P is not cocking the striker, it's just creep. Glocks are different, they sit at about half cock at rest, and the long trigger pull completes the rest of the striker's rearward travel. Not sure about XD pistols, been too long since I owned or worked on one. Both the Glock and the M&P factory setups move the striker rearward enough (1/16" or so) to be classified as double action by the ATF, and subsequently IDPA (SSP division). The XD striker doesn't move (enough?) and is classified as single action by the ATF and IDPA (ESP division).
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
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Do you have the XD and M&P mixed up above? The M&P pistols I've worked on use a pivoting sear that just drops out from under the striker, no significant rearward travel except the "lawyer angles" to make trigger pull more positive. Very different from a Glock.
One could technically call that a double action, but then the single action pull on newer CZ pistols would fall in the same category with slight rearward travel that is really just creep and bad sear angles.
Last edited by Yondering; 02/09/17.
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With M&P there is a small hump machined into the top of the sear that cams the striker slightly rearward, at least enough for the ATF to classify the pistol as DA.
The opposite is also true - the hump cams the sear back into its set position should the trigger be released without firing.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Yes, that is true. Maybe it's just terminology, but I don't consider that a "double action" feature like a Glock or Kahr though. The M&P will fire with that hump removed and no rearward striker travel, so I've always considered that feature only there to increase trigger pull weight and to reset the sear.
ATF's definition is different, but that's the same organization that considers a muffler a firearm; their definitions don't necessarily follow logic.
Last edited by Yondering; 02/10/17.
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Agreed all around. There's also some talk that S&W pushed hard on the ATF for the DA classification to help with law enforcement sales, betting that most wouldn't be interested in a semi auto with a SA classification. S&W was probably right.
I'm not certain, but I think removing the hump or an aftermarket sear without one kicks the pistol into ESP for IDPA.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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I can't imagine carrying with an empty chamber.
The foundation for old age is good memories.
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I can't either, but if you read back on this thread, there are many pro's and cons on the subject. That being said, I don't carry a pistol that doesn't have a thumb safety. I have Nightstand pistols that do not have thumb safeties and they are always hot and full, but I don't feel comfortable walking around with them. With some new guns coming along with Ambidextrious safeties it just doesn't make sense to me to take a chance. Previously, Lefties had an excuse, but not now.
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Always carried C&L ![[Linked Image]](http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/lobos-law.jpg)
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oh I can't either, but if you read back on this thread, there are many pro's and cons on the subject. That being said, I don't carry a pistol that doesn't have a thumb safety. I have Nightstand pistols that do not have thumb safeties and they are always hot and full, but I don't feel comfortable walking around with them. With some new guns coming along with Ambidextrious safeties it just doesn't make sense to me to take a chance. Previously, Lefties had an excuse, but not now. Do your double action revolvers have thumb safeties?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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Always carried C&L why is it 'unlocked', if it's 'always' C&L'ed?.....
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Just to see if the grip safety works, or if that antler tine can cause a hole in the table.
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
--Winston Churchill
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technically in that picture he isn't carrying. cause it's on a table
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
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why is it 'unlocked', if it's 'always' C&L'ed?..... That's an old picture taken shortly after I got it and is a pho-to op. That gun now has a Novak ambidextrous safety and it IS carried locked. I don't know why Ruger didn't put a Ambi on the gun in the first place..."Lefty's Matter"  The gun's name, "Lobo's Law" ![[Linked Image]](http://www.shrewbows.com/rons_linkpics/lobo-law-2.jpg) http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/robert-farago/gun-review-ruger-sr1911/
Last edited by Longhunter_1; 02/12/17.
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Mine don't have cartoons on the grips, or a catchy name. But, it does get to dispense some justice to 'real' lobo's, ever now and again..... ![[Linked Image]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/huntsman22/guns/IMG_3167_zpsbf697126.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c124/huntsman22/guns/IMG_3018_zps3d76f0d2-1.jpg)
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Mine don't have cartoons on the grips, or a catchy name. But, it does get to dispense some justice to 'real' lobo's, ever now and again.....
Why use up good ammo on them critters when you don't have to ![[Linked Image]](http://leatherwall.bowsite.com/TF/pics/00small38218807.JPG)
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Better to be over the hill than under it.
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I didn't read the entire thread as I didn't want to read any frustrating debate. I can't, for the life of me, understand why anyone would carry with an empty chamber. (I feel no need to add the word "grins" in parenthesis after that which I've typed to show that I think I'm clever).
_________________________________________________________________________
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John Steinbeck
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But if you did you'd want a safety righy?
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
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If is a big word. If the Fox didn't stop to take a pee, he would have caught the Rabbit.
Better to be over the hill than under it.
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