Do people actually carry with no round in the chamber?

Yes. And if I had to guess it would be more than 50% of the people who carry (in this part of the country anyway).

Dink

Yes. The hero in the video was one of them. Could have cost him his life.

I personally do not know anyone that does not carry a round in the chamber. Has anyone done a survey on this forum? That would be kind of interesting. I personally, carry a round in the chamber.

There is a campfire member here that carries with a cold chamber. He evens argues that it is easy to chamber when neeeded. He is wrong and doesn't even know it.

The incident was in Brazil. I can recall seeing another shooting video in Brazil and IIRC that video had a guy carrying C3. It could be the law in Brazil, I'm not sure. That is the law in Israel. So consider that there may be legal reasons the guy was carrying C3. Or he could just be an idiot.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot

Carries with a cold chamber, and doesn't care about accuracy.

Makes perfect sense

I've never understood the theory. I've always figured if I needed a gun outside of effecting an arrest, it was going to be needed right got damned NOW, with damned little time to discuss other options

You are correct of course.

Yep.

You could do a survey but people would lie. It's kinda like everyone carries a all steel five inch 1911 and six mags until you ask to see it. Well it was left at home because ( fill in the blank).

Start asking around about at the range, gun shop, etc. like you want their expert opinion on the matter. Then start asking to see their ccw guns. A lot won't have a round chambered.

Dink

If you carry empty you might as well not carry at all.

Well, not quite (the man in the clip made it work, with a little luck), but carrying "empty" is definitely stupid.

Not just one.

I can't say it's 50% - but I think many here would be surprised at how high the percentage is. I have known quite a few over the years who do it and defend the practice with their own "logic". Several of them immediately come to mind.

I don't see the point.

Anybody who needs too much convincing probably isn't a good candidate for it anyway.

Apparently if that's based on someone's feelings though, it's OK according to you in that other thread.

No schit.

I have never ever ever carried a handgun without one in the pipe.

Stupid.

Good because there isn't one. Carrying with an empty chamber is the result of bad training, lack of knowledge of circumstances of real life SD events, and bad tactics that some learned in the military carrying 1911s in C3. Crazy thinking

If you need the pistol you'll need it immediately. Condition 1 while carrying, and even the idea of engaging the thumb safety on a 1911 while carrying in a proper IWB holster is of questionable value IMHO. Needs rethinking.

Why would anyone lie? I believe the majority would tell the truth, if not all. Do you carry a round in the chamber, and what is your reasoning behind your answer.

I imagine to avoid the harassment. Which means they likely know they are the minority and as such also likely know they probably shouldn't carry that way but do for whatever perceived safety benefit the feel it offers.

Just goes along the lines of other, but less questionable theories for carry. Like spare mags, some say mandatory others not. Or carrying ALL day(wake up until bed). Im somehwere in the middle. Depending on what im doing or where im going a spare mag may not be in my pocket and its rarely on my belt. I also take my gun off at home. Some days I even......off body carry *gasp*. Situation dictates carry.

My thinking, exactly.

People lie all the time so other people won't think less of them. Shoving a loaded pistol in your pants makes a lot of people uneasy.

I always carry a round in the chamber. Bad things happen really fast and I don't want to be trying to get my gun loaded when I need it.

I also carry extra mags, flashlight and sometimes a extra gun. It's just stuff I'm used to having at work.

Dink

Seems to me the main reason for developing a DA Auto handgun was to produce a firearm that could be carried reasonably safely with a round in the chamber and be able to produce a quick first shot.

People have been carrying DA revolvers with a round in the chamber for a long time.

I've never felt unsafe carrying striker fired gun with one up the spout, same with a da/sa, or SAO gun.


I prefer Da,or do GUNS because I like the second strike feature. I've also never put much stock into the " high bore axis" theory, that those guns are more difficult to shoot, or any slower in measurable practicality to fire accurately.

It is not.

I have personally trained Brazilian special operations personnel (Mil and LEOs) and while (just like here) everyone does not do things the exact same way, they do not have any legal restrictions to carrying a handgun properly loaded.

A month or so back I had a discussion with a guy on another forum when he stated he always instructed people to carry with an empty chamber - even modern double action revolvers! He stated he was an ex-military weapons expert now conducting training for civilian CCW classes. He defended his instruction of a cold chamber because that's the way he was taught in the "special operations group." Idiot...

Do you actually train that way? I immediately begin malfunction clearing on a click rather than try pulling the trigger again. Too many other things it could be besides a hard primer to potentially waste the time pulling the trigger.

no. I guess it's a subconscious warm and friendly...I still prefer Da guns though.

A friend of mine in college was a fellow gun loony. Odd thing about this guy was that he carried double action revolvers sans one round under the hammer. I always thought that bizarre. When I asked him why, he said it was for safety. This was back in the early 1980s. Made no sense to me then or now.

If a revolver doesn't have a transfer bar safety or an enclosed hammer, dropping the gun on the hammer can cause it to fire if you have a round under the hammer.

Well that makes it pretty clear.

I found a pocket holster that I bought that makes me more comfortable about carrying my LCP 2 with a loaded chamber. It is a Kydex holster that completely secures the trigger while allowing the firearm to be loaded and unloaded while in the holster. It's made by BORAII and makes carrying the single action LCP 2, with it's light trigger pull, worry free.

I carry a five inch steel frame 1911 loaded and locked all day every day. It depends where I am as to how many extra magazines but never over two. If I need more than 25 rounds I will already be dead. For the record it has a round in the chamber and I am not telling a lie.

I know, but how many modern S&W, Ruger, Colt double action revolvers fall into that category? Remember, he's training CCW classes. I don't know anybody packing a Colt SAA for their CCW gun but I suppose that's possible.

Like most, I cannot see any sense in carrying a weapon without a round in the chamber. If you are paranoid about dropping it, or shooting your toe off, buy one with a thumb safety or use a revolver. At least you are not fumbling around trying to work a slide while some nut is beating on your head. My bedstand weapon is a a S&W 16 shot SD9 VE with no thumb safety and always loaded fully. My CCW is a Either a Taurus PT-111 or a SCCY CPX-1 both with thumb safeties. With a bit of practice you can flip the safety off in a second. The SCCY CPX-1 has an ambidextrious safety for both right handers and lefties. Can't figure why an Instructor would tell some one to carry with an empty chamber.

They are out there and unfortunately reproduce.

I cannot and will not, I simply don't believe the time will be afforded to fu-k around trying to chamber a round, would be glad to at least have notice to get mine pulled.

I guess i am one of the odd ones, and should be prepared to take flack for it. But it depends on the gun and how it is handled as to round in chamber. Mostly i carry a glock, and if it's got a round in chamber, it's got a holster around it.
now sometimes no holster, sitting on my seat in the car etc.
and i for sure am not going to risk shooting off what little God gave me by carrying it behind my belt with a round in chamber but no holster.
But i tend to rely on threat percieved. The higher it goes the more likely it is to have one in the pipeline.
But i am still grumbling about ruger needing to put in a transfer bar safety on their wheel guns, or marlin that stupid cross bolt safety. Both if you pull the hammer back a little, will lock off the firing pin.

Don't see any other way to carry a 1911 other than cocked and locked.

I am curious, do those that carry a round in the chamber of their handgun also carry one in their deer rifle while walking to their hunting area? It has been a long time since I lived out West, but they used to cuss us Easterners for having the rifle loaded while walking. Our reasoning was the same as what you are using to justify keeping the handgun loaded: you can't predict when you will need the firearm so it is best to be ready. Logic did not diminish the emotion the subject caused, however.

Empty chamber in a hunting rifle.

Those that think they can hunt steep, brushy and wet terrain and have 100% control of their muzzle and never have brush sweep a safety or get into a trigger guard have never hunted that terrain.

I've missed a shot at a deer due to not having enough time to chamber a round and get the scope covers off. I've also had ground give way which caused me to go ass over tea kettle and while I'm not positive that my muzzle swept my son, I really can't say where the muzzle was pointing while I was going for a ride.

So with the two options of not killing a game animal, or killing a family member or friend, I'll take the un punched tag every time.

Paraphrasing 2lt2qt statement years back, "The funny thing is the guys that I'd trust to carry with a hot chamber carry with a cold chamber, and the guys that can't seem to control their muzzle are the ones that insist on a hot chamber"

I just don't see the comparison or how this is even relevant. In one instance your life depends on your ability to rapidly employ your weapon. In the other instance you're hunting for the joy of hunting, and the consequences of not having a chambered round is just that you miss out on a trophy. The two just don't compare.

i have lived in the west all my life and carried many rifles, none with a round in the chamber unless i am right at the point of firing.
Never found that to be a hindrance.

you make me think of the day i slipped coming down a hill with a brand new rifle on shale rock, and sat down right in the middle of a patch of prickley pear cactus. Didn't scratch the rifle tho.

I have slipped and fell with my rifle or my shotgun numerous times. I always have a hot chamber on my deer rifle. I walk many different types of fields hunting Upland Birds. Never had a problem in 50 years. That being said I never walk without a safety on. Now That's asking for trouble. This has nothing to do with the subject the thread started out with, but we have digressed, so I'm just sayin...

Your holstered handgun would have swept him as well. Holsters won't stop bullets. I have been covered many times by people with loaded handguns who sit, bend, or turn around near me. It is the same thing.

If you want to be safe, never carry a round in the chamber of any weapon, especially handguns. There is an obvious double standard at work here, think about it.

Nope, a pretty simple standard really.

Life or death situation, carry hot. Non life or death situation, carry cold.

This hot vs cold chamber debate for hunting seems like an East vs West thing. I've shot probably 50 deer in my life hunting in the thick woods of the Adirondacks and the hardwood lots of the Catskills and surrounds. If I had hunted with a cold chamber I would have shot maybe 5 deer total. We don't spot deer hundreds of yards away and stalk here. We stand hunt, or, still hunt, carefully and quietly moving thru the woods and will be shooting most of our deer at ranges of 50 yards or under. Ever try to chamber a round with a deer at less than 50 yards? All you will be seeing is tails. The only ND I ever witnessed, in my 46 years of hunting, was when my Uncle's thumb slipped off the hammer while lowering it on his Marlin 336 on a very cold morning. Since he had good muzzle control, pointed at the ground, no one was injured. This is why I actually like the lever guns with a cross bolt or other additional safety. Aesthetics be damned. Also, how the hell would one hunt ducks or upland birds with a cold chamber. Try that on a grouse flush. You might as well stay home and watch the Outdoor channel all day. When I hunted Moose in Newfoundland with a guide, which was mostly spot and stalk, I carried with a cold chamber, for the guide's safety. I will also unload the chamber when crossing streams, fences, or traversing steep terrain. Other than that, my chamber is hot and my muzzle in control and pointed in a safe direction.

Now the idea of maybe having someone with a pocket pistol in their pants sitting across from me with a hot chamber and a flimsy pocket holster would give me some concern. You have a lot more people around, the muzzle is not under control and you can be swept by it and not ever know it. I just bought a pocket pistol and have a kydex pocket holster that isolates the trigger completely. I am comfortable with that.

It could be because you are right.

Steelhead did a great job of changing my mind about hunting with a live chamber several years ago. The big difference is missing a shot at a deer will not get you or your family killed. I carry live, I deer hunt empty chamber. Apples and oranges.

Spot on.

Obtuse

so you fellas that don't carry a round on your rifles, don't carry your shotguns loaded when bird hunting either right?

The part of the world where I hunt is heavy timber on mountain sides with basalt outcroppings and shale slides all covered by berry bushes and devil’s club. Nasty country, easy to end up on your ass or worse. It is also interesting to note I have never shot at a running deer. So, there are a lot more reasons to hunt with an empty chamber.

However, when I am on a coyote or a cougar stand and calling I will be sitting somewhere safe and I would have no problem loading a round while I sit and call. Get up to move and it is back to an empty chamber.

Were I in a blind duck hunting I would be using a loaded shotgun. I cannot say what I might do in a deer bling as I have never in my 67 years hunted anything but ducke out of a stand or a blind.

Situations change as the hunting changes. There does not have to be one set rule that covers every kind of hunting.

An example, I was hunting bear behing hounds. They treed a bear across a little gully. We walked five hours down that little gully and back up the other side and damned near everything we touched would make you hurt. Five hours through hell on earth to go about 3/4 of a mile. It took nine hours to get the dressed bear back out. It was dark morning when we started and black as pitch when we got back to the truck. It took a full month for my hands to heal from the berry vines and devil's club infected thorns. I carried cold chamber both ways.

so what would you do hunting pheasants in a crop or crp field

Depends what I was using. pump could go either way, Double, by fat my first choice would most likely be hot. However, I there is a slim to no chance I will ever pheasant hunt or bird hunt of any kind.

I no longer even own a suitable shotgun and have no plans to get one.

The point is if I'm in the woods of field, aside from toting stuff to a duck blind I'm hunting. I could see a cold chamber on a sheep or mountain goat hunt but I've jumped too.many deer while walking in thick stuff, and in close 15 years of hunting I've never seen an negligent discharge from a guy carrying a deer rifle hot

A couple of years ago not to far from where I sit and write this a woman had a ND and killed her son.

Hunting different kinds of train call for different choices. I will carry my 1911 hot for concealed carry, my new model Blackhawk with six while in the woods, and my rifle cold when deer and elk hunting while walking around in rough terrain. I may miss a shot nut and empty chamber will not kill anyone.


Also put into consideration you my friend are younger and do not suffer the same physical problems I do.

With a cold chamber, there is 0% chance of killing someone with an ND. I like those odds.

so you carry your ccw cold?

Again, apples and oranges.

Sweet Jesus.

Minimalism chances whenever you can. That's what smart folks do.

I think what we are hopefully getting at here is; we are all grown men, living, hunting, working etc in different circumstances, different experiences, & different comfort levels and we should all use our own judgement as to when & where to carry a firearm hot. Absolutes just don't fit every situation. There's no need to be so judgemental about a personal preference. It's great to point out the pros and cons, but, ultimately, it's a personal decision. We should just respect that.

Do you own a house? Have you ever had a house burned down? Do you have insurance?

I respect that fact that I recognize that you are a fu*king liberal, Yankee idiot.

That's apples and ornages. hunting with an unloaded gun is just stupid.

again do you grouse hunt with an empty chamber?

I see nothing wrong with dat.

Where I live I can kill grouse with a stick or a shot shell from my 45 Colt.

I am not trying to convince you nor am I saying you are wrong. These are just my opinions and they work for me.

Roll the clock back many decades and it wasn't uncommon to find people with that mindset. People who weren't gun people mistaking a necessary procedure for a SA revolver and applying it to a DA revolver.

East meets West or some such thing. I'm sure there is an interesting story behind the origin of this divide. Where I'm from, NWPA, everyone hunts hot.

Hey, I resemble that remark!!

Nope, ever single grouse I've killed I had to chamber a round prior to.

And that makes sense. 1 million guys on 57 acres of state land with a 9 day season....


I ain't saying don't chamber one, but I ain't got much desire to more around too much with one in the chamber.

You need to buy a new almanac.

Ruffed Grouse...

Yeah, ruffed...

I do know there are a LOT of guys chasing the same nickel in a very short season.

I hunt with a hot chamber. unless crossing a stream,fence,crawling on all fours,a situation that you're not in control of your firearm, Then I unload my firearm.

Ruffed Grouse

roughed Ruffed Grouse

Blue of course

Ruffed Grouse are the kind that fly away when you come to kill them.

To all those guys who are afraid to walk around with a loaded gun I have the following advice: Spit out your gum!

I do not believe I use the word afraid anywhere.

So, it your opinion should a hunter who has daily bouts of almost blinding vertigo and who hunts in heavy brush country with vines and loose rock everywhere use a safety when he hunts with a live round chambered?

Both barrels were loaded.

Dumbest arse comparison I've ever seen. Chambering a round while hunting and carrying a chambered handgun for defense; the two are like night & day; they two are opposite sides of different books. And yet the hard headed of this forum see it as an issue to argue about...brilliant.

Scot F, Betcha she didn't have a safety or it was not on.

Remington 700. She took off the safety and it shot her son after going through her horse trailer. Lots of blame all around but a cold chamber would have just caused a "OH CRAP" moment not a dead child. Proper muzzle control would have been a life saver too.

When I first read Steelhead's thoughts I thought he was crazy but I sat down and thought about it and realized his points are valid. I have taken a shot when I did not have time to chamber a round. I changed the way hunt.

If she'd been holding a broom............

Says the gal that's askeered of 30 round magazines.

I have a 700 and I have replaced trigger but I. Will never trust it. Cold chamber may cost me a deer but I will sleep well.

Someone like you that askeered of shooting themselves or someone else with a rifle while walking around in the woods, certainly shouldn't be trusted with a rifle with a 30 round magazine. Give a moron like you a 30 round magazine and you might just be able to hit someone. It's best that a klutz like you be limited to just 5 rounds.

You are proving to be full of crap.

Full of crap?? Why? Steelie by his own admission doesn't trust himself to walk around with a loaded hunting rifle because he perceives himself to be a danger to himself and others. Why should someone like that be trusted with a semi-auto with a 30 round capacity? He certainly shouldn't be trusted to have a handgun (and certainly not one without a manual safety) with a round in the chamber.

Practicing safety such as a cold chamber when moving and hunting then equating that to magazine capacity is idiotic to say the least.

Are we still talking about 'hot chambers'?

Due to both the environment and terrain that I hunt (high desert to alpine transitional range), I rarely have a round in the chamber. The majority of my shots are extended, and not "quick/snap shots".

I also hunt in often very steep, mountainous, with snow and ice, scree fields, etc. slips, falls, and tumbles are not unusual. A rifle without a round in the chamber is a smart move as far as I am concerned.

If I am slipping through the northside timber, that is another story, but for the most part, I don't chamber a round until I am ready to shoot.

I must be as incompetent as Steelhead.

I think it makes sense that terrain and personal limitations/feelings would dictate hor or cold rifle carry.

probably if I was hunting similar terrain as you I wouldn't have a round chambered either.


and Cooper 57 is an idiot

So in short, you're not worried in the least about someone shooting you or you shooting someone.

Speaking of shots, shame your mom didn't catch you down her throat.

I hunt hot, and safety on until there is a shot worth taking. And I still practice muzzle discipline. climbing in or out of treestands, gun is unloaded.
I have open carried while delivering pizzas, but I am new to a CCW. currently I use a revolver with one cold chamber under the hammer.

I don't care if you approve. there's a speed loader and another 50 rounds in a bag in the truck.

I agree with you but why can he get away with it and you question me when I am hunting in Pac NW rain forest?

As for Cooper 57, it is not because I am afraid of anything, be it hunting with a hot chamber or carrying a 30 round magazine. I just choose to be safe. My choice, no one else.

Well said, You do what works for you.

If I hunted tree stands I would go hot in the stand. I do not hunt in blinds or tree stands.

Not usually. I have been accosted by deer while walking to my hunting area, and had not enough time to chamber a round - but its shot missed and didn't kill me. Damn stupid deer can't hit the broad side of a barn. I didn't die of starvation either. Went back to camp and cooked a hamburger.

This thread gets dumber every time I look at it.

Holsters don't stop bullets, but a proper one guards the trigger from being pressed. I challenge you to give one documented example of a properly holstered handgun in working condition that fired while in the holster.

My approval certainly means nothing. But I am curious as to what your reasoning is for the need of a cold chamber in a modern DA revolver.

M700.... Hmmm. 'Nuff said right thar...





When it comes to the specific area I usually hunt in, damn straight.. As soon as I'm at the legal distance off the road from the truck the bolt goes up and a round goes in.. NH M70. With a proper trigger.

Got a nice 6-pt buck one year within 5 mns of getting on the trail.. Taking the time (and dealing with the noise) of jacking a round into the chamber woulda had that deer another 400 yards into the woods.. As it was, a quick peek through the scope to ensure there was horns, drop down to the shoulder and he went down in his tracks.. About 150 yards, give/take..

I haven't ever used a "stand" as such - just slow walk, listen, know the area well enough as to about where deer's gonna cross; then find a spot 75-100+ yards down wind and settle in.

One finger pull will advance and fire the first bullet, but if dropped on the hammer, it can not fire. I am new to CCW, and could make a stupid mistake like that. Good guns and good holsters make mistakes harder. Too bad I can't afford them yet. Currently, I have one pistol. (RG-39 Rohm). They don't have a great reputation, though this one works well. The manufacturer is out of business, and there is no testing data on a dropped gun, that I am aware of.
Nor do I have a concealment holster yet. When I have carried in the past, it was always open carry. That one cold chamber allows for an untested gun, and a possible mistake on my part. It is not a natural method of carry for me yet.

Exactly what type of revolver are we talking about? I'm assuming it's not a single action.

As described above. Rohm RG-39 .38 special, double action. Accurate, probably purchased a year or two before they went out of business.
Edit: https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-conten...1_rg_rohm_gmbh_38_special_revolv_640.jpg
Not an exact match, but close. 4" barrel.

L

Looks like maybe it does have a hammer safety of some kind,but yeah, given the unknown quality of the gun (by what I read so far of its reputation),I'd probably carry that one with empty under the hammer too....if I carried it at all.

When I started deer hunting in the early 50's here in Michigan, almost everyone used lever action Winchesters and Marlins. The were carried hot with the hammer on half cock. I still use that kind of rifle today and wouldn't think of going into the woods with an empty chamber.

Watching some of the Alaska shows on TV and noticed they chambered a round AFTER they see an animal...BULL CRAP!, I've hunted Alaska and you DO NOT walk around in Bear country with an empty chamber...that's TV editing.

As for empty chamber on a hand gun?....you'd better have your Will made out and your Life Insurance paid up.

Maybe OK for a Revolver, But to have to monkey around working the slide on a Semi-auto, is asking for trouble. You risk a short action, thereby not getting the round in the chamber and you lose time. Both could do you in. I carry a 9MM Semi-auto hot with a thumb safety (Ambidextrious).
Can flick the safety off in a flash. Twice as quickly as working the slide and getting in the shooting position. Think about it.

So would I, with a semi-auto. Use of a safety on a hot gun has been ingrained since childhood, at least in long guns. Pistols were for target shooting. I hunt with slingshot, but never tried hunting with a pistol.
Good thing I can trust BLM, flash mobs, burglars, muggers, those playing the "knock out game" or the "Penguin game ", to wait while I outfit myself with the very best gear. I'm sure the machete attacker in my local restaurant, and the recent car and knife attacker at my local college, would have no problem planning thier attacks when I am better prepared. (Sarcasm).
I'll adapt as I can, but in the meantime, I'll have to use what I have.

Hunting is one thing. Getting attacked by some nut is another. You need to be instantly prepared to keep from getting killed. Any time spent between drawing, and aiming is critical. Walking around with a cold chamber is no better than walking around with an empty gun. By the time you get a round in the chamber and re-position your slide operating hand for firing, it may be too late. Handguns without a safety are fine for lying on your Nightstand, but if you are walking around with a CC in a holster or in your pocket, use a gun with a safety. It's only common sense.

safeties on defensive handguns are dumb...1911s are best owned as range pistols

This.

Double action revolver, double action auto, or Glock-style striker fire trigger are all good choices for defensive concealed carry. I've come to the belief that a safety on a concealed carry defensive handgun is unwise. Can it work? Sure, but you can also usually do just fine defending yourself at home with a bolt action .30-06 rifle if that's what you have on hand. That doesn't make a bolt action rifle a particularly good choice as a home defensive weapon. The fact that a manual safety equipped handgun usually works out just fine in the role of defensive concealed carry handgun doesn't make it a good choice for defensive concealed carry either, if a handgun without one is available to you.

There is a place for a safety on a defensive carry gun. Clothing, zippers, draw strings etc. can (and have) enter into the trigger guard while holstering and discharge the firearm. Once properly holstered in a holster that isolates the trigger, there is no danger. A striker pistol with a safety that can be engaged (like most Shield models) while holstering and then disengaged once the trigger is isolated is safer. Also, it is safer to engage the safety when holstering/unholstering/handling the gun at a range. For carry, take the safety off, once secured. Accidents, such as I outlined, can be averted by using extreme care in holstering your firearm, but, sometimes, we all can have a momentary lapse.

As for the 1911, it can be safely carried cocked and unlocked in a holster that, again, isolates the trigger and has a thumb break strap that rides under the cocked hammer. Again, the safety can be employed while holstering and disengaged once the trigger is isolated or hammer blocked in the holster.

I don't have an issue "wiping" the safety on a 1911 as it comes up. Neither do I have a problem with striker pistols.

I haven't read the whole thread, but just on the first page alone there were people agreeing with this.

I was a deputy in Texas for 17 years, and you couldn't be more RIGHT if you tried. You can extend the urgency of needing a firearm to folks who carry using the variety of modes of concealed/open carry available, depending on the state you have your CC license in. When you need a firearm you need right NOW. I carry with one in the chamber and the magazine topped off.

Always.

Mack,

You and Scott would be among the last persons someone with a warped sense of reality would try and label as "incompetent".

Wow! Hard to believe you typed that and posted it.

Differences of opinions and not permitted here.

I'm in the group that always carries with a loaded chamber. That includes both CCW and when hunting. My reasons are, well, my reasons, and they have worked for me over the past 60+ years.
I really have no issues with folks that do it differently. Their reasons are most likely well thought out, and work for them.

Not BULL CRAP. Well, perhaps for Yankees, they do all sorts of stupid shiet.

I lived there, carried a rifle damn near daily, and I can't recall a time it had a round in the chamber. I can't recall my pards having one chambered either.

just a personal opinion, but an observation. It seems as if some people are living in an environment where they are walking down the streets of tombstone to the ok corral or facing matt dillon in dodge city.
i have never carried a rifle with a round in the chamber unless i was ready to use it right now. it doesn't take that much time to jack one in.
I carry handguns with one in the chamber if i see the situation warrenting it, otherwise not. I have never found a safety to be an issue, subject to the handgun, certainly not on a 1911 style firearm.
i can still remember this guy with a remington 1100 walking behind me in heavy brush flicking the safety on and off. After i cleaned my pants and switched positions i asked him if he thought quail carried switch blades. Never hunted with him again. he had one in the chamber too.

I would be too worried constantly if I carried a 1911 style pistol locked and cocked that didn't have the trigger enclosed in a sturdy holster AND a thumb strap, buckled, between the cocked hammer and the rear of the firing pin. I'd be a nervous wreck. Striker fired pistols are different...they are never "cocked" and the length of pull is a lot longer than a 1911 style semi-auto. Even so, for my carry gun I've gone to a striker fired Smith&Wesson M&P Shield (in .45 - waiting for the inevitable 10mm model) which and as an option you can chose to have a 1911 style frame mounted safety on frame, which I had added. I can stick that gun in my front pocket inside a simple leather pouch to prevent printing and to cover the trigger. I feel comfortable carrying that one loaded.

The only type of hunting I carry with one in the chamber is turkey hunting; the birds can see you move hundreds of yards away. I get seated, load one in the chamber, and start calling. If you have to reach up and jack a round into the chamber as a bird approaches the bird will hear and see you move, and will simply leave the area to the nearest cover. If turkeys had a sense of smell like a white tail deer no one would ever kill one.

nope. they'd hunt them from trees and over feeders....

Not in Illinois.

I'm sure it depends a lot on the terrain and/or distance one must walk/ATV in to the hunting area.. Out west where one can take a couple hours to walk (or ride a horse) in to the area it makes perfect sense to carry empty.. But in the upper Midwest where the woods begins at the ditch, taking "that much time to jack one in" will result in whatever deer you might have seen to be in the next county, post-haste..




He was a dumbass.. M1100 with safety on AND ALWAYS pointed away from any other hunting partner is the way it should be done.. But quail, around here, are GONE in about 1.5 seconds - and NOBODY is gonna 'jack a round' into the chamber, mount and shoot a quail that way here..

BTDT.. Used to do a bit of quail hunting - and the little bastids are danged FAST... But again, it's mostly woods here - not open prairie..



FWIW.

Actually, many striker fired pistols do ride fully cocked - specifically the M&P series. That long trigger pull in an M&P is not cocking the striker, it's just creep.

Glocks are different, they sit at about half cock at rest, and the long trigger pull completes the rest of the striker's rearward travel.

Not sure about XD pistols, been too long since I owned or worked on one.

Stopped in at a pawn shop today. They have a stainless .357 LCR Ruger revolver, much lighter and smaller than my .38. They are asking $429.00 and accept trades. No exposed hammer either. May have to see If I can swing the upgrade. No visible wear at all to the .357.
Is that price about right?

If they'd take $400 you're in there like swimwear.




Dave

Appreciate the feedback

I am contrite.

"Epitaph"

John liked to carry with no shell in the chamber

He thought he could rack it if he was in danger

when he met with a bad guy, he came out second best

Now here lies poor John with a hole in his chest

Both the Glock and the M&P factory setups move the striker rearward enough (1/16" or so) to be classified as double action by the ATF, and subsequently IDPA (SSP division).

The XD striker doesn't move (enough?) and is classified as single action by the ATF and IDPA (ESP division).

Do you have the XD and M&P mixed up above? The M&P pistols I've worked on use a pivoting sear that just drops out from under the striker, no significant rearward travel except the "lawyer angles" to make trigger pull more positive. Very different from a Glock.

One could technically call that a double action, but then the single action pull on newer CZ pistols would fall in the same category with slight rearward travel that is really just creep and bad sear angles.

With M&P there is a small hump machined into the top of the sear that cams the striker slightly rearward, at least enough for the ATF to classify the pistol as DA.

The opposite is also true - the hump cams the sear back into its set position should the trigger be released without firing.

Yes, that is true. Maybe it's just terminology, but I don't consider that a "double action" feature like a Glock or Kahr though. The M&P will fire with that hump removed and no rearward striker travel, so I've always considered that feature only there to increase trigger pull weight and to reset the sear.

ATF's definition is different, but that's the same organization that considers a muffler a firearm; their definitions don't necessarily follow logic.

Agreed all around. There's also some talk that S&W pushed hard on the ATF for the DA classification to help with law enforcement sales, betting that most wouldn't be interested in a semi auto with a SA classification. S&W was probably right.

I'm not certain, but I think removing the hump or an aftermarket sear without one kicks the pistol into ESP for IDPA.

I can't imagine carrying with an empty chamber.

I can't either, but if you read back on this thread, there are many pro's and cons on the subject. That being said, I don't carry a pistol that doesn't have a thumb safety. I have Nightstand pistols that do not have thumb safeties and they are always hot and full, but I don't feel comfortable walking around with them. With some new guns coming along with Ambidextrious safeties it just doesn't make sense to me to take a chance. Previously, Lefties had an excuse, but not now.

Always carried C&L

oh


Do your double action revolvers have thumb safeties?

why is it 'unlocked', if it's 'always' C&L'ed?.....

Just to see if the grip safety works, or if that antler tine can cause a hole in the table.

Nice grips.

technically in that picture he isn't carrying. cause it's on a table

That's an old picture taken shortly after I got it and is a pho-to op. That gun now has a Novak ambidextrous safety and it IS carried locked. I don't know why Ruger didn't put a Ambi on the gun in the first place..."Lefty's Matter"

The gun's name, "Lobo's Law"



http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/robert-farago/gun-review-ruger-sr1911/

Mine don't have cartoons on the grips, or a catchy name. But, it does get to dispense some justice to 'real' lobo's, ever now and again.....

Why use up good ammo on them critters when you don't have to

I don't own a Revolver.

I didn't read the entire thread as I didn't want to read any frustrating debate. I can't, for the life of me, understand why anyone would carry with an empty chamber. (I feel no need to add the word "grins" in parenthesis after that which I've typed to show that I think I'm clever).

But if you did you'd want a safety righy?

If is a big word. If the Fox didn't stop to take a pee, he would have caught the Rabbit.

The point of it is. I don't understand the mentality of being skeered of carrying a handgun simply because it has no external safety

Me either "G", keep the thing in a good holster that covers the trigger and have the damn thing ready to bang when you jerk it.

I'm no copper, but who in hell can foresee the amount of threat time you will be afforded? no one!

Makes as much sense as carrying chamber empty.

Plus, if we're not supposed to 'slingshot', how are these guys gonna get their pistols loaded?

Don't ask me. All I know is guys have had their non-safety CC guns go off in their pockets because of keys and other things. You can inadvertently put your finger on the trigger when you are drawing the gun out of the Holster. If you want to blow your nuts off because your firearm doesn't have a safety, go right ahead. Taurus had a recall on a G1 PT-111 because some of them when off when dropped by accident. I'll stick with a thumb safety and you can do what you feel is right for you.

Well duh, that's why you don't carry in your pocket without a holster. It would be pretty stupid to do that even with a safety.

The rest is training issues. Keep your finger off the trigger when you draw, and don't fiddle with it when the gun is in your hand. One might even surmise those things are common sense, if ya didn't know better.

John carried hot and had no safety at all

the gun in his pocket was aimed right at his ball

one day it went off when he reached for his gun

now where John's balls were...there are none ...

The solution to your first 2 pints can be summed up with one statement.
don't be a fugg in retard.


the third point can be countered with. don't buy a pos Taurus

Besides all that, there are autos with triggers that are essentially the same as DA revolvers - and no external safety. See? We have a solution for everything.

If your pocket carry gun is pocket carried with your car keys, you were probably gonna shoot yourself at some point anyway.

Why would dumbazzes put a pocket gun in with other items, like keys??? Even w/o a holster. That's what PRACTICE is for.. You can 'inadvertently' drop the safety, hit the trigger too and STILL blow yer nuts off.. I believe there's youtube vids of guys doing that very thing..

EXACTLY..

Guys like gitem use these threads to spew forth BS that have nothing to do with the topic. No constructive posts, except to nit-pik's other people's views and he does not contribute anything at all. I hope he as given up because he won't get anything from me anymore, except some advice on how to spell. Good luck, Dummy.

And should.

Thank you for your constructive contribution to the thread.

manipulating a safety comes down to training and muscle memory.


that same training and muscle memory used to defeat things like retention devices on holsters.

I've seen more than a few trained guys who excel on a range compete ly [bleep] bricks when stress in introduced such as force on force training where "bad guys" shoot back at you, to the point they completely forget how to manipulate their holsters

you don't think the same thing could happen with a manual safety?