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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,250
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,250 |
Crossfire,
I have read they had to shut the flow off through the turbines because the debris and flow down the main spillway has reversed the the flow in the river below the dam and the generators will be damaged because the water cant flow out?
Not sure if this is true and I have no knowledge about such things, just passing on what I read.
This is Higbeans back yard maybe he has more and better info? That doesn't seem to make sense. The water going into the turbines comes in far below the level of the spillway, and IIRC the intake is screened. If they've had to shut down the turbines, there must be something else to it. It's been several decades since I toured the interior of the facility and can't remember - isn't there a bypass?
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,522
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 8,522 |
Crossfire,
I have read they had to shut the flow off through the turbines because the debris and flow down the main spillway has reversed the the flow in the river below the dam and the generators will be damaged because the water cant flow out?
Not sure if this is true and I have no knowledge about such things, just passing on what I read.
This is Higbeans back yard maybe he has more and better info? That doesn't seem to make sense. The water going into the turbines comes in far below the level of the spillway, and IIRC the intake is screened. If they've had to shut down the turbines, there must be something else to it. It's been several decades since I toured the interior of the facility and can't remember - isn't there a bypass? I read the same thing; elevated river levels compromising the discharge flow from the plant.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,509
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2005
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Is that 60 minutes up yet?
"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,638
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
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Is that 60 minutes up yet? Longest 60 min ever!
I probably hit more elk with a pickup than you have with a rifle. I have yet to see anyone claim Leupold has never had to fix an optic. I know I have sent a few back. 2 MK 6s, a VX-6, and 3 VX-111s.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Crossfire,
I have read they had to shut the flow off through the turbines because the debris and flow down the main spillway has reversed the the flow in the river below the dam and the generators will be damaged because the water cant flow out?
Not sure if this is true and I have no knowledge about such things, just passing on what I read.
This is Higbeans back yard maybe he has more and better info? That doesn't seem to make sense. The water going into the turbines comes in far below the level of the spillway, and IIRC the intake is screened. If they've had to shut down the turbines, there must be something else to it. It's been several decades since I toured the interior of the facility and can't remember - isn't there a bypass? I read the same thing; elevated river levels compromising the discharge flow from the plant. Well, this is starting to make some sense,.... A.) The backwash / reverse flow / elevated river level from the main spillway hydraulically stalling the turbines ( the discharges of which are not screened ?) B.) Mandatory use of failing main spillway now dictated by bogus emergency / auxiliary spillway's incipient failure ... C.) If the weirs feeding the main SW won't handle lake's recharge rate, the emergency / auxiliary SW WILL run ...... ....so all this media gas about how the "Manager" were "Controlling" the flows was nothing but more hype,..... Sounds from here as though Ma nature's taken control of this mess. All you folks out there have my prayers. GTC .
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
No !!! [quote][/quote]Russians ? NO !!!!! Ronald Reagan plotted alla' this.
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
OK.
I'll give you this.
The flood gates on the main spillway were in danger of being compromised.
This is what made my skin crawl.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,213 |
No !!! Russians ? NO !!!!! Ronald Reagan plotted alla' this. ... meanwhile, Gov Jerry Brown has been throwing temper tantrums over the election results and wasting money on 'socially conscious causes' rather than known infrastructure issues.
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Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
The Oroville dam was constructed during Pat Brown tenure as governor.
Pat Brown is Moonbeams father. Pat was governor from 1959 to 1967.
The dam was completed in 1968, Reagan was just there for the opening ceremony.
So as usual Sycamore is misleading us inferring it was Reagan's fault.
Pat Brown was before my time but he had a bad reputation and he spawned moonbeam!
Wouldn't surprise me one bit if there was corruption during construction etc....
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Studying this: ![[Linked Image]](http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x59/sharpsrifle/17_02-Oroville-_zpsplbbxebd.jpg) And This: ![[Linked Image]](http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x59/sharpsrifle/oroville%20cutaway_zps41yvqqd3.jpg) After reading this:
According to available geological maps, the Oroville Dam is build on the Smartville ophiolite, consisting of dark grey, steeply-dipping and strongly foliated metamorphic rocks. Once of volcanic origin, erupted in an ancient sea, the rocks were uplifted and metamorphosed during the formation of the Sierra Nevada.
This description seems to match the rocks visible in published photos of the main spillway damage. Some comments have also suggested that the first hole in the main spillway developed above an altered zone of rock, as its more brownish coloration would suggest. Altered rock is more permeable and prone to erosion than massive rock. It's possible that water infiltrated below the concrete of the spillway, eroding the weakened rock until the concrete collapsed into the forming sinkhole. Which means that now running water can directly erode the bedrock, causing more damage (this possible explanation can however only be confirmed by a direct investigation of the exposed rocks).
Metamorphic rocks often cause engineering problems, as such rocks are often folded, resulting in tectonized/fractured areas in an otherwise stable rock mass. Also, the particular structure (the geological correct term is texture) of such rocks poses a problem. Metamorphic foliation forms when elongated or plate-shaped minerals (like micas) are forced by tectonic pressure into a same alignment. Between the minerals the parallel surfaces of the foliation form weak zones, prone to break. If such surfaces are tilted entire packets of rock can easily slip and be washed away by water.
FINALLY gives one the idea of what's in play here,....after days of listening to distorted sound bytes, and listening to talking heads blither mutilated notes provided by panic stricken "Water managers" GTC
Last edited by crossfireoops; 02/15/17.
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
OK.
I'll give you this.
The flood gates on the main spillway were in danger of being compromised.
This is what made my skin crawl.
....probably as poorly designed / maintained as the rest of that big pile of schidt. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 |
Gee, Sycamore being a lying POS again. What were the odds.... http://jaytaylormedia.com/who-will-be-blamed-if-the-oroville-dam-fails/"In a lengthy analysis of the political battle to win approval for the dam, historian Marc Reisner recounted how Governor Pat Brown — father of the current governor — repeatedly fabricated numbers about the dam’s true cost in order to hoodwink the voters into approving the enormously expensive project through a bond issue in 1959. Reisner showed that honest estimates concluded the dam would cost approximately 3 billion dollars — more than 20 billion in 2016 dollars — so Brown simply invented a number of 1.75 billion. Reisner concluded that Brown knew that “not one” state would vote for such a huge bond issue, so Brown hid the real cost. To get it passed, Brown did what politicians always do — he engaged in fear-mongering and suggested to Southern California voters that they’d run out of water without the new dam. But even these methods nearly failed to get the dam approved. 48 of 50 counties in the state voted against the dam. The measure only passed because southern Californians, long used to cheap, subsidized water, were happy to see the rest of the state go into debt to pay for even more water."
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Just added a pic / drawing to a post above, sorry I didn't put it there first go round,....I THINK that what we're seeing in that hole immediately below that spill wall IS the actual core structure of the "impervious wall".
The minimalist philosophy that defines the engineering of "Earth Filled Dams" DICTATES that that core structure has to have massive weight (overburden) bearing on it from above,.....
....washing it all away is not a very bright idea, and one has to ask, WTF else did they EXPECT that overburden to do ?
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Joined: Dec 2016
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 5,502 |
So we have to ask why Kalifornia has spent so many billions of dollars on funding illegal invading aliens and "Social justice causes", and let their infrastructure decay. If the state government had spent 1/10 as much of their tax moneys on improvements and maintenance over the last 30 years as they have spent on funding invaders, I'd bet these things would not be nearly as threatening as they are.
Just a guess....but worth looking at.
Would that help now?
NO! You can't change the past.
But in the near future, about 200,000 displaced people might be a formidable coalition to start to fix their communist government for the better.
Few things will make people get interested in politics as much as loosing their homes and lifetime investments--- because of political agendas they formerly didn't resist or pay attention to.
Last edited by szihn; 02/15/17.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
Crossfire,
I believe the diagram you gave was of the construction of the dam itself.
The question at this point is the construction of the primary and secondary spillways?
I assume both those structures sit on bedrock.
The report you cited indicates the bedrock is of poor integrity. I believe that's the issue?
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
The real problem is the DWR filled the lakes too fast and too full. Lake Shasta is also way too full for this time of year The Sacramento River is at flood stage even after days of no rain. I drove past it yesterday and it's as high as I've ever seen it in Redding. At Hamilton City the Sac is only 4 to 6 feet from overflowing the levee.
The DWR phooked up BIG TIME.
This near catastrophe never should have happened.
BTW cross, you've been nailing it.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
Basically, more damage that what's being reported and how close to the schit being spattered all over N Ca it really was.
I heard things today that made my skin crawl.
That's all I have to say about that.
Thanks, Forrest! I am not a smart man, but I do know what flood is.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Posts: 20,824
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 20,824 |
The lib's in Calif. believed in global warming and thought the new normal in Calif. was perpetual drought.
They didn't believe the reservoir would ever fill again.
FOOLS
Originally Posted by Judman
PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
The lib's in Calif. believed in global warming and thought the new normal in Calif. was perpetual drought.
They didn't believe the reservoir would ever fill again.
FOOLS That nails it. They totally bought into the GW BS. Ooops. 
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
Crossfire,
I believe the diagram you gave was of the construction of the dam itself.
The question at this point is the construction of the primary and secondary spillways?
I assume both those structures sit on bedrock.
The report you cited indicates the bedrock is of poor integrity. I believe that's the issue? All across the crown of that very poor quality "bedrock", their SHOULD be a blasted out 2-3 stories deep excavation that was filled with reinforced concrete tied to the bedrock with grouted in anchors, ....in front of it, on the sloped surface of the "face" ( the lake side) should lie a reinforced deep mat of reinforced concrete. The area onto which these back alley "engineers and water managers" foresaw emergency runoff ? Crap, that should be a MASSIVE slope of Gabien baskets and rip rap, ....anchored and bolted to the bedrock, as well. Alla' this WAS out on the table years ago, and was patently ignored, apparently. GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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![[Linked Image]](http://s180.photobucket.com/user/sharpsrifle/media/17_02-Oroville-_zpsplbbxebd.jpg.html)
![[Linked Image]](http://s180.photobucket.com/user/sharpsrifle/media/oroville%20cutaway_zps41yvqqd3.jpg.html)
