Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Consider This About Jesus........

Father Russ had a good point on Sunday. He said that secular wisdom has it that "seeing is believing"; with religion, the wisdom is that "believing is seeing".

yep, at the final talley, whenever if ever that might be, if it's marked down as a great success, all those who contributed will be rewarded.

if it's a failure (and it could be?), all those who attempted success will still be rewarded, but not as much as if it was a true success.

in terms of a true success, the folks who worked hard to ensure it will be rewarded mightily. maybe even who knows what?

You are presuming it was designed.

Before you can claim that, you need to offer evidence for it.

http://photographyblogger.net/17-beautiful-pictures-of-sunflowers/

Even numbers of seeds and petals dictated by genes that give exact replicas of the same.

Roses that dont cross pollinate or intermingle (as people do). Made to be pleasing to the eye and smell. Intelligent design or random as hell.

http://flowerspictures.org/flower-pictures/roses/index.html Roses tha

I hope you understand that what you presented is a textbook example of an Argument from Ignorance....don't you?

None of it's designed. Design is a human concept. The whole notion is just another example of man's tendency toward arrogance and concreteness.

400 Billion stars in the Milky Way, two trillion galaxies in the observable universe, yet every Christian presumes their god looks like them and not one of the myriad of likely alien creatures.

Yea, just a little arrogance and conceit.

We dont presume, we know. Truth is, He told us so.

And what evidence do you have that your "source" is reliable?

Its Childish of you to say "every Christian"....... and you know it.

The only explanation you have ver offered is Not God


You

Whether one is christian or not, the instruction from the bible is clear to understand.
It does appear to indicate that God will not just choose people at random or at his whim.
Rather, certain obligations are required of a person by God, before he offers his grace.

with genuine sincere repentance(regret ,remorse) for ones transgressions, being one of them.

Would you feel better if I offered Zeus or leprechaun as a solution to everything? There's just as much evidence for those propositions as yours.

Besides, an alternative solution is not required to reject a given proposition. The proposition is not one of Zeus or leprechauns. Each of those propositions must stand or fall on their own merits.

Same for Big Bang Cosmology vs. God. Disproving one does not prove the other.

Clear instructions.

That's so funny.

Salvation is by faith alone.

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already .... He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:18, 36

Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:30-31

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God salvation to every one that believeth.... As it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 1:16-17

A man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:28

For the promise ... was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. Romans 4:13

Therefore, being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 5:1

If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:9

A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ. Galatians 2:16

The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith. Galatians 3:11-12

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Salvation is not by faith alone.

For you render to each one according to his works. Psalm 62:12
The labour of the righteous tendeth to life: the fruit of the wicked to sin. Proverbs 10:16

For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. Ecclesiastes 12:14

I the Lord ... give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. Jeremiah 17:10

When the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness ... and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul. Ezekiel 18:27

I will judge you ... every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Ezekiel 18:30

Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:20

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Matthew 12:37

For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Matthew 16:27

If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments. Matthew 19:17

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Matthew 25:41-46

He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Luke 10:26-28

And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:29

Who will render to each one according to his deeds.... For not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. Romans 2:6, 13

For we must all appear before the jugment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:10

Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:15

Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Philippians 2:12

Be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. James 1:22

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? James 2:14

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. James 2:17

Was not Abraham our father justified by works? You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. Likewise, was not Rabab the harlot also justified by works? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:21-25

The Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work. 1 Peter 1:17

I will give unto every one of you according to your works. Revelation 2:23

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. Revelation 20:12-13

Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life. Revelation 22:14

If I told you to explain Quantum Physics, but insisted you use only grade school arithmetic, you would laugh at me and tell me to get an education first.
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YOu are spiritually blind and insist on evidence you can see with your eyes.

You are spiritually ignorant.

Willfully so.

in general and on average, it good the discussion goes, no matter which direction it takes.

we know for sure or nearly so that there's 7 billion "Eaters" down here on the Earth.

we know that the various christian, muslim, and other religions are competing for membership on the earth.

we know the earth is a finite place or space. we know that, based upon NASA imagery, etc.

so, now that we know where we are, and what it looks like from afar, what to do next?

Spiritually ignorant, can you even define that?

And here's the math, simple enough for an 80 year old:

maybe? so one has to "know" something first, is that it? what if i love God, but don't know how to best express it? what then? ARE You prepared to rule someone out of heaven because of lack of knowing? if so, fine. just asking.

Get up in the morning.
Go to work.
Take care of our families.

The idea of proof flies in the face of "faith". When the "faithful" line up behind proof, I become doubtful. The same can be said for truth, reason, and logic.

AS,
its kinda like going to a Gov dept. or Insurance Co.

Dont assume that the first form and information leaflet handed to you by the first person that greets you at the counter (that says "just full this out")
will be
1/ the only person you will need to talk to- or
2/ the only information you will need,- or
3/ the only redtape form that you will be required to fill out.!!.....-and
4/ everyone with good sense should show due dilligence...by making sure that they carefully
read the detailed CLAUSES and FINE PRINT on those forms and in the BIBLE....