Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Drop-in triggers for ARs.

I need to get up to speed on the new generation of single stage AR triggers. Back in the early days of AR triggers, you basically had JP and Accuracy Speaks and later JARD. Crispy was achieved by reducing engagement, which ran counter to safety in a semi auto. The true two stage triggers captured hammer until you hit the 2nd stage, so there was a huge extra measure of safety. Jeff's and my baggage is that we shoot/shot service rifle which mandated a 4-1/2 lb. or higher trigger. That was asking a lot for a single stage to achieve while getting to crispy. I'll see if I can find someone with a Elftmann or Rise trigger to educate myself.

Both Rise & Elftmann make several models; the Rise trigger to buy if you want the highest level of performance is the RA-535 Advanced Performance Trigger.

With Elftmann, the Match Trigger & the 3-Gun are both great; they both have a half cock notch & are adjustable from 2.5 - 4 lb.

The Rise RA-535 is non-adjustable at 4 lb. & is a little heavier than I'd really like, but probably the cleanest trigger AR trigger I've pulled. Noticeably crisper than any of the Geiselle's that I have.

The Elftmann Match is about as clean, but can easily be adjusted down to 2.5 lb. & with the half cock notch, is very safe.

MM

What is a "half cock notch" on an AR?

Currently I have AR's with timney, cmmc, RR national match and Larue tactical. I have used most variations of the Giessele. Bang for the buck, the larue is hard to beat, great price, good feel and durable as hell. Best advice is to try few triggers that your friends use and see which one best suits you.

Sheltered. Just the way I like it. And hopefully soon we won't have to see many people each day. Don't care for people that much either. LOL.

At some point, since I have 1 or so lowers in the safe, I'll buy an elftmann just to see. Figure can't loose much if I don't like it anyway.

Isn't it great that the AR continues to develop, and more and or better options?

The flip side is when you and your wife have likely shot a million times with the AR, you get used to what you use and other things don't feel right. Heck we are both still getting used to the feel of Glock triggers. The good thing is we can bounce back and forth between all kinds of triggers and still do great.

Elftmann has a half cock notch on the hammer that functions same as a 1911..........if the hammer drops w/o the trigger being pulled, as in being dropped, the H/C will catch it & stop the gun from going off.

MM

If you don't like it, I'll buy it from you...........or trade you a Geisselle for it.

MM

So if I went to buy one today, rise or elftman?Any specifics I need to know before googling?

Elf is adjustable & has a half cock safety notch; Rise is not adjustable & is a 4 lb trigger.

Maybe a slight edge to the Rise in feel, very slight, but the other features of the Elf make it the overall better choice, IMO.

And it's crisp.

If you watch the sales at Granite Ridge Outfitters, I've found the lowest prices on the Elf there.............but only occasionally & usually right around $200-210 for a $269 trigger, Match version. I have not used their 3-Gun or Tactical versions.

I got the Rise out of the factory for free; it's about $235 retail, & I rarely see the RA-535 model (by far the best of the Rise group) discounted at all.

MM

I"m not using a single stage thats 4 pounds. LOL. The purpose of single stage to me is to be light. 2 pounds or so would be what I"m after in a single stage. If I used a 4 pound single stage I'm pulling 4 pounds.. If I use a 4.5 pound 2 stage I"m likely pulling around 2 or 3 pounds max on the 2nd stage...

I'l check out the Elf some. And maybe watch the sales!

To me, it's not just a matter of weight, it's also how crisp it is & how it breaks.

Also depends on the use.

I'd rather have crisp 4 lb trigger than a creepy/mushy 2.5 lb one............& the Rise is extremely crisp with absolutely no take up & the breaks is absolutely like glass. Maybe not as light as would be preferred for a pure LR rifle, but for just about anything else it works just fine.

MM

I"m with you on the mush, so I"m learning, Elf might be lighter but must have some mush. Rise has none at all, I'll go back and look at them again, maybe they have a 3 or so pound one. 2.5 would sure be nice, but we'll just have to decide one day.

That's a weird way to think of it. Even if the second stage is 2 pounds, you're still pulling that weight plus the initial 2.5 pounds; it's 4.5 lb total either way. That first stage doesn't go away when you get to the second stage. At the break it's not really any different than a single stage 4.5 lb trigger.

It's the trip not the pull. The first stage is pulled to the wall and held then it only takes 2.5 lbs to break the shot. It's the finesse at the end that disturbs the sights less than a solid 4.5 lb pull.

You're talking my language! I like crispy. The Geisselle is very crispy. The crispiest I have are the Knights.
A while back there were folk talking up the AR Gold Triggers being the most crisp ever. I got to play with one on the range. Then I pulled out my Service Rifle with a 4-1/2 lb Geisselle (HS-NM). That ended that discussion.

We Service Rifle shooters play tricks on ourselves to manage a 4-1/2 lb trigger. (mine is more like 4-3/4 lb). Loading most of the weight on the first stage can allow for a 2nd stage break that appears much lighter than 4-1/2lbs. It goes something like this...you're shooting standing in a decent breeze...your sights are wobbling from one side of the 8 ring to the other side. While you're on the black, you take up the 3-3/4 first stage, and hold it at the 2nd stage stop. When the sights drift back into the 10 ring, your subconscious mind pushes that last 3/4 lb and the shot goes. There is danger in putting too much of your weight on the first stage...we also have to shoot a "rapid" fire stage and pulling through (missing the 2nd stage stop) is a definite issue when you have too much bias on the first stage.

I will hunt down folk with an Elftmann and Rise triggers. I do know that the "go fast" crowd likes a shorter reset than we do (although we can kinda get there with a "Trophy" trigger technique.)

I have 3 Knight's, including one LPR...............while they are good for a factory stock trigger, they are not as good as a Geiselle (depending on version), an Elftmann, or a Rise, by good amount, IMO.

The trigger that was in the Knights's LPR, has been replaced & now resides in a gun intended for things not quite so demanding.

MM

No not really, it still takes 4.5 lb to break the shot; it's 2.5 lb more on the second stage, not 2.5 lb total. Like ChrisF said, it's just a way to trick your mind, but the physical effect isn't much different than just preloading a single stage trigger by the same amount.

It is different. A lot different.

I don't know how to explain, but when you take a 4.5lb trip over a sear, it's a lot different that taking a 2.5lb trip over a sear. The 1st stage isn't moving sear engagement. All the movement of a single stage is moving sear engagement.

You don't have to try to explain it, I shoot some 2 stage triggers as well, but your explanation really isn't accurate. It's still 4.5 lb to trip that second stage, the first stage just makes it feel like less. It's really not less, and the effects from release and overtravel are the same as a single stage 4.5 lb trigger.

"It's really not less, and the effects from release and overtravel are the same as a single stage 4.5 lb trigger."

I'll have to disagree with this statement, that goes against the whole reasoning behind the 2 stage trigger but it's no big deal.