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I am about to get running in a 45/70 again and I am wondering what your experiences have been with Beartooth bullets.

In particular I am looking at the 405 LFN.

Applications would be for lopes/deer/bear/elk.

Your thoughts please?

Thx

Mark D

Do it........LFN's penetrate the deepest....

Mark, the bullets are great. I've used them in .35 and .45 with no complaints. Just leave plenty of time for your order. Sometimes production lags which makes sense when you consider its basically a one man shop. You ought to see the groups their slugs make from my Marlin 336 in .35 that I bought from Idared on this site. I'll exercise the common courtesy to not ever show those groups to Larry. I have to seat them deeper than they're intended but all's fine using the Lee Factory crimp die. Good bullets but be patient. Ward

I think the Cast Performance 405 grain WLNGC work better, have a broader meplat, and you don't have to wait 4 months to get them.

How so does it work better?

Sounds like you've some experience with them, how many elk and bruins have you taken with them and tell me about the worked.

Many thx

Mark D

Why the 405 grain and not the 425 grain?There is a loooong wait on the 405 grain Beartooth and if it has to be 405 grains(I wonder why),I believe Jackfish is correct.

Just curious.

Jayco

Mark

The Beartooth 405 grain cast has a Meplat of .310 while the Cast Performance 405 grain has a Meplat of .360.The Meplat is what the Cast Honcho's call smack on impact.I decided long ago if I was ever going to use cast bullets in my 45-70 "for hunting",they would be of the largest Meplat available and in the bullet weights I chose,that would be Beartooths 425 and 525 grain cast with .374/.375 Meplats.

I just don't see any advantage to a 405 grain compared to a 420 grain and one only has to read Garretts web page to see what they are capable of taking at some astounding ranges.

If it is velocity your after then a 300 grain Nosler PP would be a better choice or even the 300 grain Speer Unicore(2350 fps in a 22" barrel from Buffalo Bore) at 2300 fps in a Guide Gun.

Jayco

No particular reason other than when I looked at their site the other day it appeared that that was the way they thought people should be looking at.

Perhaps I read it wrong, personally I don't really care which one I would use, if the 420 is the way to go I will surely go that way.

I wonder why there is such a long wait for the 405's?

Mark D

I wasn't really worried about the speed.

Mark D

Well,that is the Beartooth site and I think they are partial..Ya think.

Why people pick the 405 grain BTB with the smallish Meplat is behond me.Like I mentioned before,if the Cast Performance 405 or 420's sized at .459 shoot accuartely,I would use them over the BTB in the 405 grain weight bullet.Some people have been brain washed a .459 bullet won't shoot accurately in a Marlin Rifle and you have to have a ,460 diameter and lap your barrel 10 zillion times.Not true at all,according to my Guide Gun.

For some reason the 405 grain BTB is in demand and I do not understand it at all and that is why I asked the preference for 405 over 420/425.The larger Meplats makes a better hunting bullet.Garretts 420 Hammerheads touch at 100 yards out of my rifle and I noticed no difference with the 420 Cast Performance I have that is sized to .459.

If 405 grains is what you want,I agree 100% with what Jackfish said.The bullet in the middle of the picture I posted was from two brothers that waited just to long to get there 405 BTB and they bought the Lazer Cast instead.

Jayco

Thx for the info now that I understand the meplat thingy I know which way to go.

Which of the hard cast bullets that you would hunt with are the most readily available for you?

Mark D

I got the 425 and 525 grain Beartooths within the same week I ordered them.One might call them and ask if they have them in stock and order turn around.

If not,Cast Performance is the way to go in my opinion.I ordered mine from Midway but Cast Performance itself is a dollar or so cheaper.

I am very impressed with Cast bullets in my 45-70 but then again I have some North Forks and Noslers also.It is hard to argue the toughness of the North Fork pictured in my avitar shot into a rock pit at 2100+ fps out of my Guide Gun at 50 yards.

I actually don't know what I will choose to hunt with this year.Cast or Premium jacketed.

Jayco

I'd for darn sure like to try the NF's in my rifle to be as well.

Thx for all your help

Do you do much if any spring bruin hunting?

Mark D

I used to hunt Bears all the time and then the wife and son said they didn't want to eat them anymore so I quit hunting them.I do miss it sometimes but I never hunt anything we won't eat.The wife just got a bunch of recipes that call for bear lard and may be giving it another look..One can hope.

Jayco

Jayco-what do you have for a sight on your 45/70? I am gonna pick up one in a week or two and am thinking of going with the XS?

I had two other Guides and sold them both, ok stupid on both counts. Both had Ashleys on them and fiber optic fronts.

Looks like the XS is about the same thing, correct?

I am gonna call Beartooth tomorrow and see if they have any of the 425s ready to ship.

Lastly you mentioned the Nozler, what are your thoughts on that bullet in the advent I can't get my paws on the Beartooths right away?

Many thx for your time

Mark D

There is always some trade offs on everthing including meplats. Wide is good for creating a big permanent wound channel but your rifle has to be able to feed it with out a hitch. Here is what Buffalo Bore Ammunition says about meplats-

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/meplats.htm

Did you see the size of the exit wound a .400 meplat on a .50 cal bullet (from Cast Performance) moving at less than 900 fps made on a bull elk?
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...Board/34/page/1/fpart/all/gonew/1#UNREAD

My guide gun hasn't had a single problem with .33 meplats but my 1886 EL hicups occasionaly with that size. I haven't tried wider meplats yet but I have some on the way. Beartooth is nice in that you can get different sizes and mepalts to try for accuracy and function but all these custom bullets aren't cheap. I like the look of the pile driver jr 425 but I don't know if it will work in my 1886 I am going to try one of these molds when they become available to use up the 300 lbs of lead I have accumulated.

http://gunloads.com/fam/ranchdogmolds/

In either the 1895 Cowboy 26" or my Browning 1886 carbine 20" the 425grain BearTooth bullet over 50.0grains of AA2230 gives 1936fps in the Marlin and 1867fps in the Browning.
(52.0grains of AA2230 gives 27,400cup).

From Montana Elk,Manitoba Moose and Bear,Minnesota deer and bear to NC/SC deer and boar this load is a "critter crumpler"!!!

I've made enough shots on game to forget about even looking for a bullet to NOT exit!
Breaking both shoulders on Black Bear,Elk,Deer and Boar is a gimmie at the drop of the hammer!

I helped trail up a poorly shot spike bull(7mmSTW/162grain Hornady BTSP)three years back and made a going away at a quartering angle shot with the Marlin.
Right about the last rib on the on-side the bullet entered and exited the off-side shoulder(both lungs and a smashed shoulder)dropping the spike into a rolling cartwheel!



I aint got all the bells and whistles of a Magnum with a huge piece of glass on top but if you do your part and get close enough(thats why they call it going hunting and not going shooting)it works just great!

Mike

Mike thx for the thoughts, I kind of think that something like this would be about model perfect for hunting up north of DL...grins

Dober

Balvarik

That is a misprint..I called them on there data and it is supposed to read 37,400 CUP not 27,400 CUP..I figured they would have corrected it by now.I also have an e-mail from them stating the same thing.

If you look at the rest of the data,you can tell it is out of place..

Jayco

Guys, this may sound stupid but in a 30/30 do you ever run a hard cast and or is it better to just run a standard bullet?

Thx

Mark D