Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game The cult of Nosler E-Tip ----Bullets on sale now

I like the idea of a plastic tip all copper bullet without the stupid B.C. killing grooves.

how do the grooves kill BC? does any air even touch the sides of the bullet when it's supersonic?

Man I tell you. I get so exited over this stuff, not just the E-tip. I will try the TTSX and hopefully the Northforks with the tips (if they come out). If it was not for my constant need to tinker with everything new I would be rich...maybe.

I've been watching the E-tip Nosler and waitng for MD's report, etc. I'm gonna let y'all test 'em out good for a year or so and then expect that's the next bullet I'll go to. I have an intuition that Nosler has watched and learned from the long development of the TSX, not fair but it looks like Barnes did the early trial and error work. For this year it will be A-frames for the hefty stuff, Interbonds for deer, and baby 95 grain Partitions in .243 when I get a chance to call wolf, lynx, cougar and smaller.

Shoot lots of E-tips and give us lots more field info on how they do.

Just a correction fellas. In hind sight when I did communicate with Mike Brady he did say the he was working on, or will be working on, a Northfork with a sharp tip, or in other words a high BC northfork. Now I am not 100% sure whether or not a plastic tip would be used in these. I am sorry about the possible misinformation. He did say though that these will have to be as good if not better than his originals in order for him to release them. Gotta admire Mike for his commitment to excellence!

Mike Brady is just a wonderful, bright, patient, detail-oriented guy who must be something of a perfectionist. I respect him highly. I'm astounded at the accuracy of his product, as well as its uniformity and performance on game. North Fork is just an incredible bullet line.........

I'm working with the Barnes TSX in the 338 Win. Mag. right now, but in general, I still prefer lead-core bullets.

AD

I have read on this very board about the grooves causing a loss of B.C. from no less than a former employee of Barnes. But I didnt feel that within 300 yards it would make much difference, until 2 years ago when a buddy and I were at the end of a hunt way up in the mountains of Utah. It was the last day of the hunt and we decided to take a liitle shooting practice. I had loaded, chronographed, and sighted in for both his and my rifles. I had loaded a 130gr. Barnes TSX at 3100 for mine, and for his a 130gr nosler partition also at 3100. Now our target for this shoot was a water jug we placed on the valley floor about 150 yards away, and we were probably shooting at a 30 degree downward angle. These rifles were sighted dead on at 200 yards at the range. Any way shooting down on the target, 50 yards less than the range at which they were sighted for should have you shooting a bit high. Not the case with my TSX I was kicking up dirt in front of the target, but yet my buddies was going over the target like you would suspect. Both of us ended up hitting the target after adjusting, but my first 3 shots of a dead on hold grouped within 2 inches were all low, should have been the opposite. Later when back home I took the same rifle and loads back to the range and what do you know it was still sighted dead on at 200 yards. Remember that I had sighted both rifles myself and in the exact same way before we left.

I think Barnes are good bullets, but I will take one without grooves thank you.

The difference in trajectory due to a difference in BC (if any) is probably less than the difference in trajectory allowed by the extra 100fps or so allowed by the friction-reducing grooves.

Haven't seen side-by-side, apples-to-apples comparisons (same bullet, with and without grooves), but it is just as possible that the grooves INCREASE BC as decrease it. There is a reason they dimple golf balls and the hulls of racing sailboats... (And yes, I know things are different at supersonic speeds...)

Something is wrong here.

I�m assuming you were shooting a .277� because Nosler doesn�t make a 130g Partition in .308�. That goves us the following BC�s:

.431 Barnes 130g .277� TSX (From Barnes� current web site)
.416 Nosler 130g .277� Partition (From Nosler 5th)


The effective range of a 150-yard target at a 30 degree down angle is 129 yards. (150 yards * cos 30 degrees = 129 yards effective range) We�ll round that to 130 yards.

Zeroed at 200 yards with identical velocities of 3100fps that yields the following trajectories at 130 yards:

+1.42� Barnes 130g
+1.43� Nosler 130g Partition

I suspect there was another unaccounted-for variable. Using a bullet with a lower BC and zeroing at 200 yards causes a HIGHER mid-range trajectory. (Which is why the Nolser Partition is calculated to hit 0.01� higher than the TSX.) If zeroed at 200 yards, and at 3100fps at the muzzle, there is no BC low enough to cause the bullet to drop below line of sight at 129 yards. The lower the BC, the higher the bullet will impact under those conditions. For that matter, there is no BC HIGH enough to hit below line of sight under those conditions, either.

Yea that's why all bullet makers put grooves on their bullets, to increase BC. Oh wait a minute maybe its because they are trying to reduce fouling. Could be that Nosler by not putting grooves on their bullets are trying to both increase fouling and decrease BC.

My friend I tell you what I saw, it didn't make sense to me either, but there you have it. My rifle with a TSX was shooting lower than I expected, yet my friends with a partition was shooting about how we expected. Once bitten, twice shy.

I don't doubt what you saw, I'm just saying there must be another explanation as a lower BC for the TSX wouldn't cause it.

Barnes lists their standatrd .277� 130g X with a BC of .466 and the TSX with a BC of .431, so I'll grant that the grooves reduce BC. But Barnes also says you can get another 100fps with the TSX bullets.

Comparing Barnes #3 top 130g �X� load at 3152fps to a hypothetical 3252fps for the TSX, and zeroing both for a maximum rise above line of sight at 3�, here are the bullet drops at 500 yards:

28.03� Barnes 130g X
26.42� Barnes 130g TSX

Yuppers, to shoot as �flat� as a standard TSX with max loads for each, the BC of the TSX would have to drop all the way to .3897.

The point is, BC isn't the only factor involved in trajectories. A little extra velocity, which the TSX allows, overcomes major decreases in BC. Further, at an effective range of 129 yards and equal velocities of 3100fps, BC doesn't play much of a role at all.

I like TSX bullets, but I wouldn't count on ANY number Barnes publishes without external confirmation.......... We've been down that road, haven't we? JMO, Dutch.

Amen

As many have discovered, the TSX's advertised BC is rather optimistic.

Casey

The TSX's are foulin' SOB's in my .325 WSM at 2900+ fps. This is from *3 SHOTS*:



That said, who cares? They shoot fine. Much easier to get a load for than the old X-bullet it seems to me.

-jeff

What would get me going on E-tips vs. TSX's would be easy availability. There's a local chain called "Bi-Mart" that is a sports, hardware, household stuff, clothing, canned goods, etc kind of place. Anyway they carry reloading supplies, a good variety of them, including Accubonds and Partitions. They don't carry Barnes; for that I have to go to the gun shop, pay a premium price, and they are NEVER on sale. So, if performance is equal I'll choose the E-tip simply because it'll be easier to get, and I'll be able to get it on sale from time to time, and get it more consistantly.

It's exciting. IF they shoot, that is.

-jeff

I think it was 4" TOTAL.

-jeff

Either way I will try them. I am about to place an order through Midway. Price ain't bad either... 3 bucks more than 180 Partitions.
I hope my 300 RUM will like them .
Retumbo and/or RL 25 should work great.