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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
Really? I'd say it's easy to find guys on national forest hunting that don't have ATV's or have access to them.
Besides, again, why would it be a good thing if everyone did have one or have access? What a friggin' zoo.
You are trying to impose a relatively new type of hunting, ATV hunting, onto the rest of us and we hate it. Simple.
And I'm sorry, I really don't want to join in the flame war you guys have going on, but ATV riders do NOT "stay on the trails". If they did, this thread wouldn't even exist!
-jeff
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 415
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 415 |
Really? I'd say it's easy to find guys on national forest hunting that don't have ATV's or have access to them.
-No the number of licensed and permited atvs say otherwise.
Besides, again, why would it be a good thing if everyone did have one or have access? What a friggin' zoo.
-Why is it a bad thing?Because you don't want to use one?The more that exsist,makes it harder to ban them.Add to this the revenue generated by them,in fee's and you have less of a chance of losing rights to use them.
You are trying to impose a relatively new type of hunting, ATV hunting, onto the rest of us and we hate it. Simple.
-I'm not trying to impose anything. Atv's aren't a type of hunting,they're a type of transportation used to get to places to hunt.Before atv's,it was jeeps.In fact the majority of roads used today on national forest,have their origins dating to shortly after WWII,when everyone was exsposed to jeep travel.
And I'm sorry, I really don't want to join in the flame war you guys have going on, but ATV riders do NOT "stay on the trails". If they did, this thread wouldn't even exist!
-Considering the amount of damage done by full size vehicles and horses,we should ban them also.This thread would exsist regardless.Because somebody would not be getting their way and need to cry and feel the need to blame someone else,for their own short comings..
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,310 Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,310 Likes: 9 |
You're an hard headed sumbitch, I'll give you that. Let me guess - about 5'8'' & 450 pounds? Can you even get to the top of a mountian without your atv?
If'n ya' think he's nasty now, wait until his ATV won't start in the morning and he has to walk from the front door clear out to his pickup  Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 39
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 39 |
sledder, Here are just a few of the many photos I've taken lately, regarding OHV abuse and overuse. The truth is, it's an epidemic. If you want to deny that, you're only kidding yourself. The public is waking up to the facts. If put to a vote, the public wants OHV limits. Heck, just look at the vast amount of negative comments just on this thread alone, from outdoorsmen. An acquaintance of mine (an accomplished hunter in his own right) once said that OHV (that includes ATVs) abusers and overusers are the lowest forms of anti-hunters...I couldn't agree more. Mainly because they come from our own ranks, and are imposing their noise, unethical hunting practices, pollution, you name it, on the rest of us. ![[Linked Image]](http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k112/Sawtooth_1963/HPIM3107.jpg) This is illegal OHV use in the San Isabel National Forest in south-central Coloardo. Instead of putting out the effort to clear the road, the abusers simply made an unnecessary detour, that's about four times wider than the original track. This is a very common sight. ![[Linked Image]](http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k112/Sawtooth_1963/100_2784.jpg) These are illegal ATV tracks in the Grape Creek Wilderness Study Area, not far from where I live. sledder, I'll let you figure out what a WSA is. This happened in a fragile riparian zone, and the damage was widespread. This particular damage is well documented by the Colorado Division of Wildlife, whom I supplied photos to. If you doubt the authenticity of the photos, call them. ![[Linked Image]](http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k112/Sawtooth_1963/Tracks-1.jpg) Here's more evidence of illegal ATV use inside the Grape Creek WSA. This photo was also provided to the CDOW. I'll be bowhunting elk the next few days, so I'm sure I'll bring back several more fresh photos for you, sledder. It would be a full time job photographing the abuse just within 20 miles of my home. And it's the same all over the place.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,325
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,325 |
I've read with interest the many posts about ATV use in your Western USA, and can only compare with our experience here in Canada. For many years we have had "designated trails only" rule for ATV and snowmobile use related to hunting in Saskatchewan, in the area around Cumberland House. It did make a difference to the quality of hunting for licenced, regulated hunters when these laws were new and enforced. Unfortunately, a large portion of our hunters are not only unregulated, but they have constitutionally enshrined rights to hunt without restriction by whatever means they choose. Native hunters took the new laws as an incentive, (no more competition for them in their private preserve!) The moose population in the Cumberalnd area has absolutuely hit rock bottom beacuse of unregulated native hunters accessing all parts of the very large inland delta year 'round. The Cumberland marshes should be ( and were) one of the highest density moose habitats in the world. Now you'd need a plane or helicopter to find a moose in a week of looking.
Because we can't regulate native hunters, the rest of us get the restrictions. Be glad you still have a universal system of game management. Restricting ATV and snowmobile use seems like a reasonable idea to me if it helps preserve habitat and game. But it doesn't work if some are exempt.
Last edited by castnblast; 08/31/07.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,170 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,170 Likes: 8 |
Really? I'd say it's easy to find guys on national forest hunting that don't have ATV's or have access to them.
-No the number of licensed and permited atvs say otherwise OK sledder, tell us: what exactly does the number of licensed ATVs say? What can you prove using that number alone? I'll answer for you, not a damn thing. Especially when you're talking about "guys on the national forest that don't have ATVs." Jeff is right. **NEWS FLASH** If you hang out in areas where there is legal ATV access and there are legal ATV trails, you will see a lot of ATVs, and not many others. Because the others don't want to be there. If you park it and walk to areas where ATVs are not allowed, you will see.......never mind, not much chance of that happening.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,291 Likes: 2 |
Only thing I learned on this entire thread is most members are a good natured, civil bunch of gentlemen while sledder is an a-hole and his head is firmly planted in same.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 21,959 |
It does seem odd that people think you can make a point by being insulting.
I have never understood that sort of behavior.
"For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand."
James Elroy Flecker
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,652 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 15,652 Likes: 3 |
Only thing I learned on this entire thread is most members are a good natured, civil bunch of gentlemen while sledder is an a-hole and his head is firmly planted in same.
Pretty much sums it up nicely....
- Greg
Success is found at the intersection of planning, hard work, and stubbornness.
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,170 Likes: 8
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 46,170 Likes: 8 |
Well, the other thing I learned from reading through all the comments is that there are a whole lot of hard-core hunters out there who are tired of ATV abuse on public lands.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 415
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 415 |
sledder, Here are just a few of the many photos I've taken lately, regarding OHV abuse and overuse. The truth is, it's an epidemic. If you want to deny that, you're only kidding yourself. The public is waking up to the facts. If put to a vote, the public wants OHV limits. Heck, just look at the vast amount of negative comments just on this thread alone, from outdoorsmen. An acquaintance of mine (an accomplished hunter in his own right) once said that OHV (that includes ATVs) abusers and overusers are the lowest forms of anti-hunters...I couldn't agree more. Mainly because they come from our own ranks, and are imposing their noise, unethical hunting practices, pollution, you name it, on the rest of us. This is illegal OHV use in the San Isabel National Forest in south-central Coloardo. Instead of putting out the effort to clear the road, the abusers simply made an unnecessary detour, that's about four times wider than the original track. This is a very common sight. These are illegal ATV tracks in the Grape Creek Wilderness Study Area, not far from where I live. sledder, I'll let you figure out what a WSA is. This happened in a fragile riparian zone, and the damage was widespread. This particular damage is well documented by the Colorado Division of Wildlife, whom I supplied photos to. If you doubt the authenticity of the photos, call them. Here's more evidence of illegal ATV use inside the Grape Creek WSA. This photo was also provided to the CDOW. I'll be bowhunting elk the next few days, so I'm sure I'll bring back several more fresh photos for you, sledder. It would be a full time job photographing the abuse just within 20 miles of my home. And it's the same all over the place. You haven't proven [bleep] with those pictures,there's no way to prove wether they were taken in an area that is closed to atving. Show me some pictures of a trail thats being used that has a closure sign in front of it.It'll be a brown fiberglass stake about 4 inches wide and 3 foot tall and it will say "No vehicle travel". Also who gives a [bleep] wether you think these trails are showing signs of "overuse". Thats the decision of the forest service and there aren't any laws against driving on an orv trail too much. The first picture is typical of the forest service not using orv permit funds to clear trails.They should have chainsawed the tree while doing routine maintenance.You being a steward of the land and all,should have moved the tree rather then cry about it. The other pictures are really worthless also.I've got a tire track in my driveway,would you like a picture of that to add to your collection. You don't even get an A for effort on this one.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 89
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 89 |
The one thing I learned it that there is a few of us ATV users who are tired of you crying tree hugging greenies.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 415
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 415 |
Only thing I learned on this entire thread is most members are a good natured, civil bunch of gentlemen while sledder is an a-hole and his head is firmly planted in same.
Thanks for the input brad. Since people are posting pictures,maybe you could provide another picture of your daughter and old lady. I'm sure steelhead could help you.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,121
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,121 |
wonder how long Rick will put up with this.
If you cann't stand my spelling use the ingore feature.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,687
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,687 |
Courtesy of the Martialist:
The Vulgar Troll: These, the crudest of all trolls, make no attempt to hide their species. Often, they make racist comments, or they may post porn and other spam. Vulgars usually confine their comments merely to primitive, profane, off-topic observations. When you log into the Really Profound Serious Philosophical Discussions board and see the post, "I smell my farts," you've spotted the Vulgar Troll. Other species of troll sometimes revert to this form when cornered.
Smellin' a lot of 'if' coming off this plan.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 999
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 999 |
The one thing I learned it that there is a few of us ATV users who are tired of you crying tree hugging greenies. You got the 'few' right.... Actually the best thing to come out of this whole post, is that people like Sledder have further ostracized themselves from the majority. Its just a mater of time and ATV's will be banned from all public lands. Thanks Sledder for helping the cause.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 415
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 415 |
wonder how long Rick will put up with this. Till you cry to him enough.Which I'm sure you've been doing.
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 415
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 415 |
Courtesy of the Martialist:
The Vulgar Troll: These, the crudest of all trolls, make no attempt to hide their species. Often, they make racist comments, or they may post porn and other spam. Vulgars usually confine their comments merely to primitive, profane, off-topic observations. When you log into the Really Profound Serious Philosophical Discussions board and see the post, "I smell my farts," you've spotted the Vulgar Troll. Other species of troll sometimes revert to this form when cornered. Actually the definition of troll,is anyone who doesn't agree with your bullsh!t stories.
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 39
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 39 |
sledder,
Exactly what I expected you to say. You're pretty predictable. No sir, you don't know me from Adam, but I can assure you that my integrity is firmly intact. I'm not even going to justify myself to you. You aren't even in a position to question anyone's integrity, least of which, mine. I have many more photos, taken by yours truly. Now, how about backing up your outrageous statements with some hard data...some proof.
So, the fact that the USFS hasn't cleared a tree out of the trail makes it acceptable for the detour to be made? You're going to base your behavior on what someone else has done or hasn't done? No, I didn't clear the trail because I didn't need to. I was on foot.
As for signs, all of these photos were taken far beyond the signs. I know what the signs look like. I wish the ATV folks did.
I'm finished with you, sledder. I'm not going to open your eyes to the truth because you refuse do allow that to happen. At least you've shown your true colors, and some awareness has been heightened about OHV abuse and overuse. And concerned outdoorsmen on this board have spoken up in opposition. I thank you for helping me do that.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,417
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,417 |
Only thing I learned on this entire thread is most members are a good natured, civil bunch of gentlemen while sledder is an a-hole and his head is firmly planted in same.
Just spit Starbuck's finest all over my computer screen........TFF!!!
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