Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Forest Service is clamping down on mis-use of ATV's

It's a shame that a whole group has to be punished because of a few dumb a's can't obey the rules. I personally think atv's should not be allowed in some areas. I do own a atv but I never ride it where it's not supposed to be. I only use it to get game out, but I do not run over trees or dig ruts in the trails. I do hunt places were you have to walk in period.(no horses,trucks,atvs).

That can be applied across the board- drugs, fast cars, helmet laws, guns, on and on... the many pay the price because the few can't handle it. "It" being the responsibility to NOT be an idiot with the freedom.

Guess my libertarian streak is showing again...

-jeff

Dang, you guys are still at this? I've been holding my tongue until now. I don't have time to read this entire thread, but do feel compelled to throw out my standard line when this debate erupts. I'm one of those law-abiding ATV-ers who also hikes off a lot of boot leather. ATV's are not for hunting from, they're transportation.

Anyway, I don't understand why the various lettered agencies, USFS, BLM, State, etc. don't just put some teeth into their enforcement. Confiscate the ATV's from people they find breaking the law, and/or slap some 4 or 5-figure fines on some of these A-holes. I've never seen any shade of LEO in the illegally-ridden backcountry there to enforce the law. Here in CO, we pay a token fee to the State each year, something like $20, for a shiny new sticker on our ATV. I'd gladly pay 2x or 3x that amount if I knew it went straight into enforcement of the current access rules. Like paying for Mr. Ranger-man to set up in the trees near the end of the trail to nab anyone who ventures past the sign. They'd have a truckload of ATV's confiscated on any given Saturday morning from late summer to snowfall.

The writing is on the wall that they're going to keep shutting these areas down a little at a time. To me it sounds like closing down more area is the lazy land management way out. If they had a little wherewithal they'd step up and enforce what they have in place now.

Rant off. Flame away, I'm busy scouting/hunting and won't be reading much until the last rifle season is over. I can't believe so many have so much time to surf when we're in or darn near hunting season.

Dave

What SuperDave said pretty well nails the problem, but one part of the USFS plan comfuses me.
If the outlaw ATVers ride in closed areas, closing more areas is gonna fix the problem???

I am sure that like most LE agencies, the ATV issue is low on the list of priorities unfortunately.

Would be nice to see if the citizens banded together, took photos, proof etc... and turned them in they'd get stung hard. I"d say that confiscation of the ATV would be a good start IMHO.

Jeff

It's not about closing areas, it's about closing some of the "spahgetti" of trails and roads that fragmentate an area. A few roads/trails in and out aren't the problem.

And...so often the ATV'ers start branching off from existing roads/trails, creating what is called "user created trails". Everybody is trying to get "just a little further" into the backcountry without having to walk. Each time they go a little further. It's almost a competition.

Although I gripe about government overfunding often and frequently, the mandate the natural resource agencies have been given is grossly under-funded.

In Colorado--at least on the West Slope--most of the ATV enforcement ends up being performed by the CDOW during hunting season.


Casey

It's funny how I was up on the Boquillas Ranch in AZ (It is a huge ranch comprising about 1% of the state, half of unit 10, and open to public access) doing some deer and elk scouting, and upon entry to the ranch, every gate has signs that say "ATV's not permitted", and on this huge tract of land, I do not see the same evidence of off road abuses I see in other areas where ATV use is permitted. Funny how that works.

Did have one guy drive up to my camp on an ATV last month out there though. His reasoning was "the gate I used didn't have a no ATV's sign, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm good". Well, ain't that just nice. Enough of that chit, and the Navajo nation (who now own the ranch) will just shut down the ranch access altogether, and AZ hunters lose a huge and terrific piece of what is now public accessible land and some of the best, if not the best elk country in the nation.

All the work of hunters in the state, keeping the place clean, organizing annual ranch clean ups, and following the rules, so the general public can continue to use this great piece of land, and a few dikcheads on ATV's are gonna screw it up for everyone. Typical. I mean hell, a few simple rules. Stay on existing trails. No cross country off road travel. Pick up your trash and take it out. How damn hard is that? Follow those few simple rules, and ANYONE can continue to come in and do whatever the heck they want to do on the ranch. Too hard for some mental midgets to comprehend though.

It was soooo nice to not have to contend with the knuckleheads in large numbers though. Came across two other hunters, on foot, miles from the nearest roads, and no ATV's in sight. Nice.

Did have one guy drive up to my camp on an ATV last month out there though. His reasoning was "the gate I used didn't have a no ATV's sign, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm good". Well, ain't that just nice. Enough of that chit, and the Navajo nation (who now own the ranch) will just shut down the ranch access altogether, and AZ hunters lose a huge and terrific piece of what is now public accessible land and some of the best, if not the best elk country in the nation.

---Indians on the rez could careless if atv's are around or not. The indians aren't going to shut anything down,if its making them money. They might start hunting year round though. They're real good at that.

If you were a real hunter,you wouldn't use a pick up on the ranch either.

Sledder,
I own an atv, I have no problem with them on roads also approved for jeeps, etc.. but that is it. I have hunted and traveled many of the western states. Have taken my atv with me at times too, but the simple fact is atv misuse causes more damage to the land than almost any other way of travel. If you can't see that you are either blind or stupid.
Many landowners here in Texas have now banned atv's on their property because of previous misuse and damage.
I know not all atv riders are misusing them but the rate is much higher than with most vehicles off road. It doesn't take a survey or a committee to see this, just two eyes and some common sense.
A good friend who is a state game warden swears "you can take a perfectly level-headed, intelligent person and put them on a jet ski or 4-wheeler and they will turn into a friggen idiot". I know thats a little extreme but it bears some truth.

Bill

Holy dogballs.We even have texans giving expert testimony to the devil like use of atv's.In the western states no less.


A texans view point of atv's really means alot. I don't doubt that few texas ranches allow atv's. They're more worried about hunting out of scaffold welded to a 70's model pickup.Or a [bleep] crane or whatever else they can modify,to hunt over a corn feeder.

Colorado is proof of what happens when too many texicans show up.

Amen. There is some truth in that.


Casey

Sledder I am glad your a spokesman as a goodwill spokesman for the ATV crowd your going to be doing me a favor getting them closed out. If it is legal I have no problems but when it is wrong Sledder will be ther speaking up for them. I wish we could send some newspaper boys out to talk to you. Maybe get some quotes....

Jeff,

I have argued that same point before. Use a main road or main trail to get there, and PARK the rigs. Then go hunt.

It is when I see guys driving around 2 hours after the sun is up one KNOWS they are.....just driving around....hunting.

One interesting note, when I was involved in a Travel Management Plan for a National Forest, guys showed up whom I've known all my life. One of the "strategies" used by the ATV'ers was to claim all these trails were for handicapped folks--they even attempted to evoke the American With Disabilties Act!

But the best part was a group of guys (all related to one another in an extended family) who said they couldn't get around the hills because of various ailments and age limitations........funny thing was, I played softball against them the summer before!!!!!! Some of the rationalizations were hilarious.......


Casey

Exactly. When we were doing the Travel Plan we eventually figured out guys like sled-head were doing us a favor--when the general public saw and listened to them in action they helped our cause tremendously.

Casey

What cause was that? The one that is still being reviewed in federal court.

Mineral and timber exploitation has done more to help atving then anything else. Now you have these industries, over turning clintons roadless bullsh!t in court.

Alpinecrick,the only input you had with any travel plan,was the short bus you've been riding to and from special ed. Even then, the bus driver told you to sit down and shut the [bleep] up.


The forest service likes to ban everything,because it eliminates the need to manage.

Don't worry sled-head, the Federal Court allowed the FS to implement the plan until it makes a final decision on a small portion of the plan--the Uncompahgre national Forest became a designated road and trials only forest in 1998.

The issue in court currently is a few specific roads or trails that the FS intends to close, all the other closures we won on--so give up on that one--will ya'?

Casey

Fewer ATVS all over the woods all over the country would be a good thing for us all.

Road hunting I can do just as well out of my truck...

Have been around with idiots on ATVs stopping to bugle now and then.... wondering why they didnt' get a response, and pushing the game further back or making the game go silent.

I simply see very few good uses of ATVs since the country has seemed to have lost its common sense and since everyone seems to demand the right to do anything to everyone/everyplace...

Jeff

From the "Colorado Bowhunter" (the newsmagazine of the Colorado Bowhunters Association)...

May/June 2007 Issue, Paul Navarre (CBA Colorado Division of Wildlife Liaison) writes...

"Colorado Wildlife Commission conducted their February workshop meeting in Estes Park and their March public meeting in Denver. Topics of interest, at the workshop, were the Rocky Mountain National Park Elk/Vegetation Management Plan, the ATV/OHV background briefing and the general discussion on hutning licenses fees and revenue projections."

The number one item on Paul Navarre's list of items covered at the CWC workshop is...

"1. ATV/OHV: The CDOW is well aware of the problem with illegal use of ATV/OHVs on public land and especially on the thousands of square miles of National Forest. Enforcement, lack of manpower, current laws and the OVERWHELMING INCREASE IN NUMBERS OF ATV/OHVs has created a challenge for the Division. Eddie Coachman, retired DOW, testified that ILLEGAL USE MAY BE THE NUMBER ONE THREAT TO WILDLIFE HABITAT AND PREMATURE GAME MOVEMENT IN COLORADO..."

alpinecrick,

The motorheads always try to bring up the fact that the ATVs and OHVs help the elderly, lame, sick and infirmed get into the backcountry. The only problem is, in all the time I've been rambling the NF in Colorado, even way before the advent of the blasted things, I've yet to see an old codger, anyone crippled, anyone handicapped in any miniscule way, ANYONE DISADVANTAGED IN ANY WAY, riding one of the silly things. Matter of fact, the only folks I see out riding them are twenty-to-forty-something, reasonably affluent (enough so to afford a six to seven thousand dollar rig) folks. So that argument, in my estimation, is worthless.

Most of the time four guys ride to camp in my truck. Every morning we spread out to different areas, I ususally ride my quad to the general area I will hunt that day, then get off and walk.
Bit of a risk leaving a 700lb, $8,000 machine alone all day, but not as much as leaving a 7,000lb, $40,000 rig there.
In approved places, and in allowed times, I ride the hell out of the machine and enjoy it. Come hunting time, it's low and slow and legal. Transportation and retrival only, rifle unloaded and in a locked case as required by Colorado law.
Last Sunday I was riding at breakneck speed on a road the goes above 11,000 feet, Tuesday that road was closed until next spring, so it's off limits for me and everyone else.