Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Poll: Do you hunt with a round in the chamber?

Also, never seen anyone hunt pheasant or chukar cold either. Chukar, especially, are typically in some pretty rough, steep, rocky-slidy country akin to deer (only half-jokingly, even sheep ) habitat.

You hunt chukar cold, and chukar win. Hell, chukar win even when hunting hot, most of the time.

Now, that does not negate getting to a nasty spot and unloading until breached. But once across/over/under, it's back to hot.

I suppose hunting with pointers might open the door to hunting cold here.

But with flushers ...

rb

CAS with all due respect to another long time poster here, your line of questioning is unrealistic for me to answer.

There are plenty of things in life we do one way or another based on conditions. I'm quite certain that not everything you or I do,... every single time we do it,.... is done exactly the same. Not everything can be managed this way.

Again, My power to articulate this may not be up to the task. If it's too complex to understand this from what I have written here then I apologize.

I would not likely wear my seatbelt to pull my truck from the garage 20 yards or so,... so I could wash it in the drive way. That does not mean it's always safe to drive without a seatbelt. Maybe this analogy helps a little bit? If not....... Well I'm sorry, you're on your own to make what you wish of my post and my opinion on this topic.

I suppose the complexity of this is well beyond my mental capacity to grasp. I must carry hot for much of my work, and my recreational sport hunting persuits. I cannot imagine for one second that I would be knocking pheasants down with any......even marginal success carrying my shotgun empty. This involves fighting bush and sidehills, mud, sand, snow, and every earthly possibility. All while watching everything but where I place my feet. I've never met an upland hunter who did otherwise, nor have I ever heard a single one suggest it.

Yet while using a rifle and sneaking slowly and deliberately through the bush watching each step carfully to prevent a single twig from snapping is somehow more dangerous and higher risk. I'm quite simply not intelligent enough to grasp these matters nor to understand the point of this debate.

"I didn't miss any of your post. I just wondered that if it was safe to hunt hot most of the time, why isn't it safe to hunt hot all of the time?"

If it safe to drive most of the time, why isn't it safe to drive all of the time? Let's stay with driving a moment. More accidents happen in inclement weather such as rain and snow. Some people make a decision to never drive in the rain or snow. Other people will always drive regardless of the weather. Some, perhaps Mr. Hack, will look at his window, consider all of the variables, deliberate carefully and decide to drive (or not) based on his years of experience, his assessment of the conditions and his skill level. Because you or I would choose not to drive in a particular situation does not necessarily make Mr. Hack "unsafe" or reckless or foolhardy. He is engaging in legal activity in compliance with the law.

Now, Mr. Hack can drive in the worst blizzard in recorded history and emerge unscathed. You may go out in perfect conditions driving a perfectly maintained car and die. So it goes.

People jump from airplanes for sport. They kayak wild rivers. They race anything with legs or wheels. They climb mountains. As a species, we engage in complex and unsafe activities, often for nothing more than our own amusement. In most instances, the law acknowledges our right to go in harm's way (though this is changing). The law also holds us accountable for our actions.

If Mr. Hack is guiding for me in the dark of Africa, I would prefer he tell me that he is carrying hot. Call it full disclosure. If he is my PH, I'm going to trust his knowledge and experience. If he says he thinks carrying hot is appropriate, I'm going to think he knows more about Africa than me. If I find his muzzle pointing at me during a hunt (which I think damn unlikely), I will politely point this out. If it happens more than once, I'll be on a flight back to the U.S. No hard feelings, mind you, but gun safety is a religion in my family... though much like Christianity, there can be differences in theology.

I believe a hunter has the right to carry hot or carry cold in the field. As with driving, I think competent adults should be allowed to make personal decisions, bear the risk and accept responsibility. I'm not going to force someone else to wear a helmet or buckle a safety belt... though the law may. Whether a man hunts carrying hot or cold is his business, not mine... that is until he puts me at risk. I will not hunt with a person I think is less than perfectly safe. There are people I trust more holding a loaded gun than others holding a potato gun. The same holds true for other hunting ethics. If I don't like a guy's ethics, I won't him with him. This is how the hunting community shapes its values... not through the legislature but how we choose to engage in our sport, or in the case of Mr. Hack, our calling.

One might choose not to wear a seatbelt when driving across as frozen lake just as one would likely carry a weapon hot while crawling through the alders after a wounded bear. Both situations actually likely lower one's risk of injury.

One of the "crux" issues in my mind is the fact that many hunting situations have no reason to carry hot other than a big "what if." In many cases these what ifs can be accounted for through greater hunting skill and diligence on the part of the hunter. Those are the situations where I have the biggest problem with a cocked, hot rifle. It's called hunting, in part, because we pit our senses and skills against the animals'. If we come up short, having the ability to blast away at a fleeing animal who "beat" us at the game is, perhaps, not even sporting - if that even matters.

This is the big game forum. Big Game are typically hunted with high powered rifles. That is really the context in which the topic should be addressed. MOO of course.

Some of us carry with a round chambered because we are fit, agile, move slowly and deliberately ..and just have been trained well and PREFER to be ready..and we can do so without risk.to ourselves or another..
That may not work for the majority of folks who have firearms.

Whatever a hunter chooses to do let him be accountable and responsible.Jim

Jim
You continue to amaze with your inability to face simple facts...
art (with arm in air to protect watch that is only waterproof...)

It amazes me that you can claim to have never slipped, tripped or fallen, not once, in 50 years in the field.

Recreation # of injuries per 100,000 participants
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Hunting 8.0



I'd be curious to know the number of AD's...as I'm guessing lots of folks got off easy, but not joining or contributing to the injured list.

Dave the lower statistics chart show mortality of .85 per 100,000 Can't say if it's AD or not. While looking into this I found something interesting. There was 92 fatalities in 2001 involving tree stands nation wide, but only 23 with firearms. Of the 23 all I read were due to the shooter not seeing the person hit. There was ZERO deathes due to AD. This was from a statistical website on cause of death and injury in the USA.

Oh yeah they broke this down by age group and education as well. Almost all the "shooters" involved had never been to hunter safety classes, and most did not even have a hunting license. Only 2 were over 30, one was over 50. The rest were under 30 years old.

The demographic for high risk starts to clear up these issues quick. I wish they had a column for those who had been drinking as well, but they did not share that data.

Ironbender. Not with a firearm in my hand that created an unsafe condition. Condition your mind right and you can keep good muzzle control even a$$ over tea cups. You might break something, but not shoot yourself to boot. Besides,most bolt guns,all you have to do is lift the bolt so it won't fire. Sure don't have to unload it.

I firmly believe that the carry cold camp have created a problem when none exist or at least that there is such a low acceptable risk that it doesn't matter. Ironic that it looks like all the cold carry camp are younger hunters. Don't know for sure, just from reading a lot of past post from others for a number of years.

The poster relating the hot carry about shotguns in high weeds vs stealthly stepping through not so dangerous areas has it about right. JiminOregon has it about right too. Wonder how many of our lads in Iraq carry cold. About 400,000 troops can't have it too wrong or you would here a lot more about it.

The most dangerous hunting activity is turkey hunting. More people have been killed turkey hunting than any other aspect of the sport. Amost all from either stalking someone calling or mistaken red and blue colthing for a turkey head. It has nothing to do about carrying hot or cold. By the time the trigger was pulled they could have been either way a minute before.

Glad no one ever told The Greyhound that blacktails can't be hunted cold-chambered.

While I don�t have the current figures, I recall reading several years ago(late �90�s?) that we had a season with one archery death and zero firearm fatalities. What struck me, and the reason I remember it, was that this was the first year with zero firearm fatalities in some time.

The most recent death I know of was the father who took his teenage son hunting for the first � and last - time. I remember an ATV was involved somehow � I think he leaned his rifle against it.


No doubt about it.



Hah - we agree on something!


Not infinitely less, but very small. You just don�t want to discover you�re one of those who make it greater than zero.

Hunting cold would be an example of infinitely less.

Since you�ve never fallen in 50 years, per your previous post, how do you know? I know I wouldn�t place any bets on anyone keeping their muzzle controlled during an uncontrolled fall.



Perhaps its only a �problem� for the dead and injured and the folks responsible?

I�m 56 years young.



I imagine they carry cold quite a bit, depending on where they are and what they are doing.

"I firmly believe that the carry cold camp have created a problem when none exist or at least that there is such a low acceptable risk that it doesn't matter. Ironic that it looks like all the cold carry camp are younger hunters. Don't know for sure, just from reading a lot of past post from others for a number of years." (I couldn't get the "quote" function to work, so I lifted this from saddlesore's post)

Speaking only for myself, I carried hot all the time, until I passed through my 40's. Then I got so used to carrying a cold chamber when hunting on horseback that I realized that I was giving up nothing tactically.

Now I carry cold all the time, unless I have my eyes on a specific animal I'm stalking, and conditions are otherwise acceptable to me to chamber a round.

Arguments about the military in war zones are stupid. Of course soldiers and marines carry hot -- people are trying to kill them. When I was stalking Cape buffalo in the Zambezi Delta I carried hot, and needed to. But deer and elk aren't trying to kill me, so instant response isn't more valuable than a .1 second later response.

If you're right about the "cold carry camp" being mostly younger hunters, then I'm glad to see that they've developed good sense sooner than I did. But I know quite a few of us will never be mistaken for Gen X'ers .

After reading this thread, I'm dazzled that so many people are so offended that I've made a simple choice that enhances the safety of those around me and has yet to present any disadvantage to me in taking game. It sorta reminds me of the people who are offended by various rifle and ammunition companies coming out with offerings that don't suit their fancies.

Sort of smacks of self-absorbed self-aggrandizing self-righteousness.

(And for God's sake, don't any of you go misreading my handle and blaming My Other Brother Darrell for my maunderings...)

DN

I thought Art was about 107?!?!?!?!? Am I wrong? (Sorry, Art, I couldn't resist)

I guess I must not be fit, agile, or slow moving etc.....or does it simply mean that I am intelligent, knowledgable, and good at what I do?

Always with a round in the chamber.

OK. It's about this point in the conversation that some one suggests a compromise of sorts....

I think you should just close the bolt while holding the trigger so it's a loose sloppy pin drumming on the primer. At least it's not cocked, right?

That would be a solution for sure - tongue in cheek though it is- if the firing pin was somehow unable to make contact with the primer - even in an impact. That was what seemed like a reasonable solution to me except for that obvious and very dangerous fact. Having grown up with exposed hammers on rifles and shotguns, it was quite easy and obvious to carry a live round chambered but in an uncocked position. They were very fast and quite quiet to bring into action if desired. Transfer bar revolvers are roughly more of the same. Unfortunately, the typical bolt gun is not so easy to make this way. That is a big part of the reason I stopped carrying loaded and locked, that and the fact that I watched a hot chambered rifle go sliding muzzle first toward me with nothing other than the safety to prevent the trigger from being pulled. Yikes! (And a safety which doesn't block the sear and/or the striker ain't much.)

Sometimes hot, sometimes not, it just depends on how and where i am hunting.