Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats 1917 Enfield custom thoughts

So I’m expecting some comments from BSA at a minimum here, but I was just browsing around forums reading random stuff. Found some threads in different places about 1917 Enfields and customs based off them.

So I have been pondering differences in a custom based off the Enfield and my Winchester and Mauser customs. I definitely have a type that I like. All weather finish, synthetic stocks shaped for off hand shooting, built light for carrying, and set up for fast bolt manipulation. Use them for spot and stalk hog hunting. Will typically be making off hand shots on multiple pigs at 20-100 yards.

So my thoughts with regards to potential advantages of a 1917. It seems like magazine capacity will be higher. Looks like up to six rounds in the magazine instead of 4-5. I think a cock on closing bolt gun may be a little faster on follow up shots.

A problem would be stock selection is rather limited if going with a synthetic. MPI seems to be the main option and I can’t tell much about which of their stocks are available for the enfield and don’t know much about their stocks in general.

So anyways, just curious what people here know and think about enfields for a stalking bolt gun. Figure it should be interesting discussion anyways.

Some random thoughts...the bottom magazine hump may pose problems finding a synthetic aftermarket stock. In the glory days of sporterinzing the 1917, the mag was usually shortened to match the stockline. The rear sight base and ears...grinding them to the Remington model 30 Express contour is a lost art. Trigger upgrade?
If I was going to go there, I'd do a minimum effort, ugly child, bubba sporter. Sporterize and seal and bed the GI stock, keep it cock on closing, make sure it has the later ejector spring up grade, tune the 2 stage mil trigger, install a Bad Ace or B Square scope mount and call it good. OR buy one that was sporterized back in the glory days of mil surp sporters. OR break the bank and get a Rem 30 Express or the holy grail 720.
In any event, IMO the 1917's , 30's, 720's were the equal of the 54's and model 70's of that period, and proved it in competition. I personally have never ran into a Eddystone or Remington of that period with a 'bad' barrel.

I do a lot of reading on this particular part of the forum, but not much posting, since I don't have much in the way of gunsmithing skills or experience with building custom rifles. However, I have bought a few custom rifles over the years built on Pre 64 Model 70s, military mausers, and one Enfield in 280Rem. There is a thread with pics of it if you care to look under my screen name. It is a beautiful rifle that someone evidently put a good bit of time and thought into. However, when I pick it up and compare it to my other custom rifles the first word that comes to my mind is heavy.

I saw in the original post where you used the phrase "built light for carrying". I don't know how much luck you'll have with that aspect using an Enfield action.

Well, light is always a relative thing I guess lol. But job say in that thread ten pounds. That would be a strong indicator of infeasibility of this concept. I would hate to see a rifle that wouldn’t get under 8 pounds or so.

I’m not sure what kind of caliber I would be interested in. Maybe something like 9.3x62 or 35 Whelen. Maybe do like a 30 Gibbs or 300 Sherman.

I think it would for sure have to stay cock on closing. Otherwise there wouldn’t be much point in trying to use this action.

This "family rifle" is a Winchester 1917 purchased after WWII by my dad, probably late 1940's or early 1950's. He sporterized it with a walnut stock and it was quite a rifle, was all set up with nice sights etc. He used it mostly for hi-power competition, occasionally took it hunting. Twenty some years ago it came to me, and I decided to turn it into a rough 'n tumble hunting rifle.

Barrel was bobbed to 21" and free-floated. The action was bedded into a Bell & Carlson stock. I returned it to a 6-round magazine. Put a 6x Leupold atop it. 36mm objective. Somewhere along the line Dad had it changed to cock-on-opening, before I got it. I think I finally found the original parts in one of Dad's old cabinets.

My son started using it about 2009 when he was pretty young. He's taken a couple of black bear with it, a couple of whitetail bucks as well. It's not "light" but it balances well and carries easily. Typically I can shoot 1.25" groups or so at 100 yards with it using my handloads.

Haven't cerakoted it yet, but maybe someday. I really like what that old rifle has become and glad that my father, my son, and I have all enjoyed shooting it.



Regards, Guy

That’s similar in concept to what’s in my head. Any idea what the actual weight is?

Kid, Probably not much help, but I just weighed my Rem 30 Express (1917), ready to hunt, sling, Meopta straight 6x scope, 5 rds...it's 9# right on the nose. Keep in mind, the rear sight ears are gone and the magazine depth is reduced by 1 round.

This may help you get an idea of what can be achieved with a 1917.

I had a M1917 WINCHESTER (1918 vintage)That was long ago converted to .308 Norma Magnum. With a 3-9x40 Weaver, sling and a stock cuff for cartridges it weighs 9#0.5 oz empty. It is now my oldest grandsons. I still have a Belgian Mauser in .308 Norma so it was easy to gift this one.

It is in a slender walnut stock. In its Carbelite stock it is nearly a pound heavier. It has had most common modifications done. Barrel tapered, magazine shortened, ears ground off, modified bolt release, converted to cock on opening,
after market trigger, drilled and tapped for Weaver rings. It came without iron sights and I left it that way. I should probably get some put on it but I don't use it that much.

As others have said, this is an accurate rifle, good trigger, smooth action, I really like the safety too.
,

I’m just shocked at the weights.

Keechi Kid. I found this thread, hidden away a little bit. As you know, the m1917 is one of my favorite actions. I grew up using them. The one I grew up with was a 12 pound rifle, customized by one of my dad's buddies. It had a real nice walnut stock, held 6 rounds, retained the original cock on close feature, but had an upgraded trigger (Timney). When I got this rifle, at age 12, the trigger was set far too light. I learned to adjust the Timney on my own and have always put them in my m1917 rifles. The action is big and heavy and really deserves a magnum cartridge. This is one of the reasons A Square built such big magnums off of these actions. They are very strong and robust, but heavy and large. I love them though. I've had them in 300WBY, 30-06, and currently a 308 Norma magnum. Now, this is going to sound strange, but my best suggestion is to find a BSA model D or model E that was built off of a m1917, not p14. I've had 2 of these BSA model D's and E's and they are by far the best rendition of the sporterized m1917 made. The English really knew how to modify these. As others have mentioned, the work it takes to do these right can not be done by just anyone. I've had 100's of sporterized m1917's in my hand and I can tell you with certainty that the BSA is the best of the bunch. This includes other popular models like the Remington 30 express as well. The only one I wish I could get my hands on is the Remington 720. Those are like hens teeth and expensive, so you never see them. Here are some pics of the work done by BSA:





I think for me the m1917 just handles better than most hunting rifles I've had. I love the safety selector and the smoothness of the action. I don't mean to piss people off here, but these actions are smoother than any of my pre 64 model 70's. When I reach for a hunting rifle, it's usually one of these m1917's I reach for. For shooting field positions, they feel so natural to me. Probably because I grew up with them. I shoot left handed and for multiple reasons they just function better for my needs. Safety lever feels like it was designed for a left hander and the bolt, even the dog leg bent bolt handle feels good when running it. Here's my m1917 30-06:




The floor plate has been straightened, but it still carries 6 in the mag box. It has a Timney trigger, but it has been modified to cock on open. I don't really mind that with this rifle, as it works very well. My BSA model E above is still cock on close and I'm keeping it that way. I can work with either style. Both are still very fast with bolt manipulation. Another cool thing about these rifles is you can use a pre 64 model 70 extractor. I have them on all of my m1917's.

Here's a BSA model D that I wish I still had:


That rifle would put 5 bullets in the same hole. I had a video of that on my older lap top, but lost it when it went down. I remember one time shooting that rifle in the offhand position with some 180gr Nosler partition handloads and putting 5 in a group of 1.057". I grabbed the target and went home. That's all I shot that day. Something about a great shooting rifle that fits you like a glove. You can do a lot with a rifle like that. One of the reasons I suggest looking for one of these rifles, before wasting time with a Remington 30, Eddystone, Winchester or anything else m1917 related. Again, the English did them right. What's funny about that model D is I put a pre 64 model 70 front hood on it and also a pre 64 model 70 extractor on it. I called it my "poor mans" pre 64. Cool thread, I'm glad I found it. I also hope you the best of luck with your m1917 build Keechi Kid. If I wasn't so attached to mine, I'd offer you one. They are kind of weird with left handed stocks tough, so they would not fit you. I also look forward to see what you find and what you do with it. I do like the sounds of a 30 Gibbs though. One cartridge that actually intrigued me. I'd love to see a m1917 chambered for that!!!

Interesting as I figured your post would be BSA. So what length cartridge can you fit into one of these? The H&H’s work? I will be keeping an eye out now for a model e or d. You didn’t make any mention of stocks. Have you ever looked into the synthetic options?

Those are big, heavy actions that make big heavy rifles better suited for the largest cartridges like 416s and 404s. I wouldn't use one for a 30-06 or similar length case.

I was offered one in 404J by Bevan King in BC shortly before he passed. He built lots of magnums off that action and the P14 as well. Takes a lot of work to get them done right. Think $$.

I've always just ran walnut stocks on the m1917's. One of the most beautiful rifles I've seen was one Roy Weatherby built to house one of his 300WBY cartridges in. That was about 15 years ago and was $2,500.00 at a collectors type gunshow. Didn't have the money at the time, but still wished I could have bought that one!! Sorry I'm no help with synthetic stock choices. The 2 I have right now have custom left handed walnut stocks on them and I'm pretty happy with them. Hopefully someone can answer your question as to who makes a good synthetic stock for these rifles.

As for how big of a cartridge you can fit in one of these actions, yeah, an H&H cartridge is easily fit into one. A square made a rifle they called the Hannibal and it housed cartridges like the 404 Jeffery, 500 A.S, and .577 Tyrannosaur (built off of a P14). These cartridges were huge with base diameters of up to .688" and an OAL of 3.740". So a .375 H&H seems small in comparison. I was at the range and saw one of these rifles first hand. They are monsters and the .577 Tyrannosaur is no joke.

This may piss some people off, but I avoid the Eddystones like the plague. I do not want to deal with some of their QC issues they had that could lead to an unsafe rifle. I know guys use them, but that is on them.

I've got an Eddystone I have been working on. Not done yet. 358 Norma Mag, cock on opening.

Tony

My Remington 30something, 25 Roberts, weighs 8lbs, 13 oz iron sighted, unloaded, original stock.

Bruce

BSA model E:


P14 in a model E stock that I gave to my buddy:



Here's one of my m1917's that I reshaped the stock on. It was pretty bulky when I got it. The grip was also weird shaped. I fixed it to fit my hand and left the palm swell, but took it down a little. Sometimes these m1917 stocks can look like they are pregnant. This rifle holds 6 rounds in the magazine. My 308 Norma holds 4 in the magazine. Both have straightened bottom metal:

The only synthetic stock for a P-17 I am aware of was the Carbelite stock from Bell & Carlson. It is strong and extreme;y heavy. It comes with a drop magazine area. I removed that as I had the modified stock.
I got tired of the extra weight and trimmed down a walnut stock for it.
I may still have it around herre.

I picked up a nicely done Enfield up at Cabelas in Potlandia, that was nicely set up for competition shooting.

The cost was fairly cheap, but the chambering is in Win 243 WSSM. I've got some brass for it on close out, but I've never done nothing more with it. I should rectify that....

This sounds like fun. Every time I get into a herd of pigs, they scatter at the first shot. Then you get runners here and there as you kick them out of the brush, like working a covey of quail. With that in mind, I’m not sure that I’d customize the rifle. It was designed for fast handling and perfect balance, plus it has superb sights and about a mile of sight radius.

I’d customize the load instead. You don’t need 30-06 power to kill pigs inside of 100 yards. The M-1917 has a 26” barrel, so you could easily push a 150-grain bullet to 30-30 or 300 Savage levels with a light charge, and the weight would reduce recoil even more. With a stock rifle, I'd put a little white paint on the front sight, then practice running the bolt and topping off the mag without looking at the rifle.


Yes, it holds six 30-06 cartridges. I’ve never emptied a magazine on pigs, but I have had time and opportunity to top one off. If you did empty the mag, you could reload a stock M-1917 quickly with stripper clips.


Okie John

Whoever did that is going to Hell.


Okie John