Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Core separation from a Nosler Partition

Well, this is the first time I've tried to post an image here so I hope it works. I really want you guys to have a look at this and tell me why you think it happened.

I shot a medium sized whitetail does last week. I was using a 165 grn. Nosler Partition from a 30-06 at about 50 yards. She was angled away from me, and the front part of her was in brush. I didn't have too much time, but I aimed at her ribs. I shot too far back and hit her in the rump. The bullet went through to the vitals and she didn't go far.

I was surprised there was no exit wound, and I found the bullet when gutting her. The front of it looked like might be expected. The front end was sheared away.


But the reason it didn't penetrate all the way is shown below. The picture doesn't make it too clear, but the bottom of the jacket is hollow. The lead core that should be beneath the partition was gone.



This is only the second animal I've shot with a partition. The first one was a bull elk I shot in the shoulder and it worked perfect (it was a 180 grainer).

Is this kind of thing common? I really want to believe in Partitions, but this makes me wonder.

???

I visited with a man that I guided a few times when he was back hunting with the new owner of the outfit and he showed me a 250 gr partition fired from a 338 Win Mag that he recoved from a moose that had the exact same thing happen. Evidently the bullet had a rough ride and tumbled. I don't think it is very common and I personally still have faith in the design. Weird things happen some times.

Interesting. I had a similar thing happen back in 97 or 98 when I shot a bear using a .375 H&H with 300gr Nosler Partitions. The first shot was while it was standing and went through and through, the second was while it was quartering away. The bullet went rear left to the front right, and dropped the bear in its tracks. Pieces of the bullet core and separated jacket were found just under the skin on the far end. The jacket looked way worse than yours though.

Today the Nosler partition is still my �go to� bullet.

Got me.Only can recall seeing that twice.Both times on a forum.

Yep, same thing happened to me about a dozen years ago... The bullet was a 130 Partition shot from a .270 Win into an elk about 80 yards away. All that I recovered was the piece of copper tubing like you have in your pic. The piece of copper was found on the far side and under the hide, so the bullet almost exited on the broadside elk.

I sent the bullet to Nosler and they thought it likely tumbled in the elk and expanded from both ends. They also suggested that I use 150 Partitions for elk. The only time I've ever run across a Partition doing that and even then it still performed well enough to do the job quickly.

Lonny, do you think it might have been tumbling before it hit the elk? Reason I ask is that the deer did have her head behind some brush, but I don't think there was any in the path of the bullet.

Can't be sure though.

Tumbling is indeed probably the answer. More bullets do this than we ever suspect.

The next question would be: At what point did the bullet tumble and lose the core?

And after that comes Warren Page's famous query: At what point in the animal's death did the bullet fail?

Have never personally had one do it, but a friend did once with a 180gr out of an '06, on a moose at 50yds. It was shot through light brush and tumbled. As is in most cases, this "failed bullet" was recovered from a dead critter! So that's one Partition failure vs. probably around a hundred that I, and/or a partner has used to perfection.....I can live with those odds.

Jeff

+1+

I think a certain mono-copper does that exact think a bit often itself.

Yes, I do think there was a possibility that the bullet hit some brush before making contact with the bull. I've thought about that possibility since recovering that 130 Partition and while I'll never know for sure, it sure isn't out of the question. And even if the bullet did or didn't the Partition still did its job.

Does anyboddy know of any bullet testing done to simulate shooting through a light screen of brush immediately in front of a target?

There has been a lot of that sort of testing done over the decades, through everything from brush to small dowels. The results generally indicate that the results are highly variable, and about anything can happen.

My own tests and experience in hitting brush while hunting indicate the same thing.

30-30 target shot from 75 yards. A screen of brush - our local alders, around 1/2" diameter- was just a few feet, ten or less, in front of the target. You can see what was happening to the bullets. Yes they hit the target; yes, some were not pointed point on.

Hey Klikitarik,
That's a great test. It even looks like the one furthest to the right even mushroomed before it hit the cardboard sideways.

That's pretty cool. You ever try it with say 20 or 30 yards between the brush and the target?

I have a Nosler 250gr pt from my .338mag around here somewhere that key holed and lost some of the rear core.

It hit a 5 pt bull elk at very close range (quartering towards me) in the bottom edge of the curve in the neck bone "point on", deflected and slammed through the ribs sideways, stopping on the shoulder bone.

Piled the bull up right there, but I was amazed when I found the bullet.

"Stuff" can and will happen with any bullet. The partition is still my personal premium bullet if I don't use a Hornaday.

BT

Yep, that one seems to be pretty clear. I think only one or two did not expand before hitting the box, some still going front (or back) end first. I would imagine they would have all been lethal to a deer. However, penetration and damage may not have been everything desired.

I did try another test with the 45-70 using the snow covered lake beyond to judge the hitting ability of the bullets - their ability to stay on track IOW. That was wholly unimpressive. Those bullets were landing far and wide even in a heavy bullet (400 grain) classic brush bullet (RN) design.

It seem to me there are two concerns when brush deflection is involved. One is striking the target. The second might be bullet performance when you do. As much as I don't especially like to see a bullet tumble once inside an animal, at least it has done some of its work and expended some purposeful energy by the time it turns. As far as that goes, some bullets even expand with an expanded face which is deflective by its very shape. (While others expand with more of a ball shaped frontal form.) Deflection is another problem.

We are, on the one hand, fortunate to have so many very good bullets to choose from in this time. On the other hand, there are virtually none of them which are totally devoid of recurring issues of some kind - many of them essentially minor, just not perfection. I never have made the Partition my major "go-to" bullet. However, I have seen that my initial experiences and consequent impressions were a bit hasty in judgement. I don't think that folks who adhere to the Partition as the single most useful bullet for a wide range of applications are wrong.

I had it happen on a whitetail buck in Manitoba; the bullet was a 160 partition from a 7 RM; I know it was deflection because we found the clipped-off willow branches, and the bullet struck sideways,spinning through the liver and both front and rear cores spun out of the jacket,which I recovered against the off-side hide.I have had a Bitterroot deflect and hit a deer as well; a 130 gr from a 270 at about 10 yards in heavy cover on a 250 lb buck. It held its core, one side of the expanded bullet sheared off; it still retained over 2/3 of its weight.These examples are a good argument for using a tough premium bullet, even for deer-sized in heavy cover.

I've recovered a fair number of Nosler Partitions from big game critters that I've killed. The front core is almost always blown away and the bullet is expanded fully. The front looks like this:





And the side view looks like this:




When the bullet hits heavy bone, like moose or elk, and tumbles through rough stuff, occasionally the base gets squeezed. Like this:





Here is a side view of squeezed bases. Notice that none of these totally lost their core.



Frankly, I've never seen a totally lost rear core on a Partition. I'm thinking that the bullet tumbled early and the rear core crimp just couldn't hold the core. Schit happens, even to the best of bullets.

Steve

Dang, I knew metal prices were getting high. However, I didn't realize they had gotten to where spent bullets were worthy as fare for the the collection plate.

Of probably 50+ deer and elk I've witnessed shot and killed with Partitions--and probably 60 bullets in the critters--I've yet to see that happen, even with the "older" Partitions.


But about 10 years ago one of the clients with another guide had it happen with a 140gr out of a 7mmWthby at short yardage (I can't remember how short).


I have seen "failures" of other bullets, premium and otherwise. The most common of the denominators I can see is higher velocity at short range. Of course in this case an 06 and 165 grain would not fall under that label.

Otherwise, I have only seen this a couple times on forums too.

I find it interesting the lead has been wiped clean on the front side too. Unless lots of bone is encountered, usually one sees at least some lead left on Partitions.




I'm gonna steal your John Locke quote and harrass the Fred Thompson guys up on the political page



Casey