Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire vietnam

Well, take a look at where Vietnam is today. They are one of our major trade partners. The war began because they would not tolerate French rule, which is perfectly understandable. They partnered with China and Russia out of need not desire. The Vietnamese and China have been at war with each other for many, many centuries. Fist fight they had after they took over was with China, and today they have a great deal of contention brewing with China over possession of near shore coastal islands. Ho declared them commies out of need, not belief. LBJ launched the war for his personal gain, nothing more or less.

That and the war complex. Same thing as today, war makes money.

I think every statement you make is pretty much indisputable, and our refusal to stand on principle and pressure the French to GTFO left them (meaning Ho) no choice. It's a bit difficult to wrap one's head around the fact that our position was essentially "we wouldn't help you out then, so now we have to kill you." It truly does appear that the vacuum left by the French evacuation was seen as an opportunity by the MIC, who conveniently had a puppet by the name of Johnson in the White House.

But still, that leaves the question unanswered, and maybe it necessarily has to remain so. It's unfortunate that we can never be certain what may have been down the path untaken.

I was born in 54 so at eighteen I was close to the end. Asked my dad if I could join instead of being drafted. He was a WW11 pacific vet and told me “I’ll kill you myself before you join” . So I didn’t join of course. He was a man of his word.

The draft ended in 1972. They called up to number 95, I was 83. Someone born in 1954 would not have been eligible for the draft until 1974.

A couple of interesting things. I was drafted with monocular vision. My left eye was scarred and the idiot doctor at the draft physical thought it was from being in a fight. I had tried to join prior and was turned down due to having monocular vision.

Meanwhile, I had found a decent job and gotten married. I went to the physical thinking I was going to be sent home, but was sworn in, loaded on a bus and shipped off without being told where I was going. That night I climbed out a second story window and shinnied down a drain pipe to call home.

1972 was an election year. The first thing I did when I arrived at basic in late October was to tell them I wanted to vote. I was denied that right. Hence, I considered it slavery.

In my two years, I mostly encountered idiots in leadership positions. They held huge classes to teach the ASVAB as one needed a score showing at least a modicum of intelligence to become a NCO. Most attendees had to take the class multiple times.

I spent most of my time handing out rubbers, giving safe sex lectures, and making sure prostitutes had passed their weekly VD exam. The only thing more plentiful than prostitutes was drugs. I was basically a doorman in a whore house.

A study done a couple of years ago showed it on average took a draftee's family 3 generations to reach financial parity with those who had not been drafted. We were taken from schools, careers, and decent jobs to be paid a substandard wage. Many of us had to defer paying bills which left us with a huge financial hole to climb out of once released.

There were race problems, but I will say that the three people I met in leadership positions and could respect were black.

Your post is bizarre dude....a guy couldn't be drafted until he was 20 years old? They deemed you fit for the draft via a physical, then shipped you off that same day without opportunity to talk to family? The Army then denied you the right to vote? You were in charge of making sure prostitutes had passed their weekly VD exam? Govt sponsored hookers? I am sure there were some situations like that, but they weren't even somewhat under the table? The study you mention also doesn't match my experience with family friends who were drafted.

I wasn't born till '79 so I have no first hand experience of what went on back then but this is the first I have heard of a lot of the things you're mentioning here...and I come from a LONG military background.

The hookers in Thailand and the and the Philippines in the 1970's were registered- - - -with the local government health departments- - - -not the military, and were tested weekly. A positive STD test got them jailed and quarantined for a while. They wore badges with an ID number and we were supposed to try to remember the number of the skanks we laid in case we caught the drip. Every USAF orderly room had hundreds of condoms on hand- - - -we could drop in and grab a handful anytime we wanted.

Actually, Ho initially approached the US in the late 40s asking to pressure the French to leave VN. The US basically ignored him, so he went to the next country that would at least talk to him.

Looking back on it, I think we would have been better off letting Germany have France.

I joined in 1973. I served with guys who were drafted in 1972. As I recall there were very few deferments given for the last of the draftees. If your number was low enough you were in. Period.

kwg

They still hand out rubbers in quantity. I have no doubt that was something readily available. I just had never heard of US government sponsored hookers, at least those that weren't in clandestine. I am intrigued by the possibility though.



Deferments---or lack of---are one thing. I have no doubt they dropped standards significantly which is why I am not surprised by the ASVAB courses mentioned.
It was the blatant refusal of voting rights, immediate shipping out, the 20 year age requirement and whatever else that I had never heard of before.

It has always been my understanding that if your number came up you were given a date to report to the MEPPS with overnight bag in hand.
If you passed the physical then you were gone to whatever training base of whatever branch you were assigned. No going home or reporting back later or anything.
That’s the drift I got listening to the guys who had been drafted.
I also know three guys locally who were drafted during Vietnam and ended up going somewhere else.
One went to Korea, one to Germany and one to Guam.
I personally think that the military we sent to war in 65-66 was one of the finest militaries we had fielded up to that time.
Nothing but respect and gratitude for those who served over there.

I think I took the induction physical three times. First was when I turned 18 and had to register for the draft. That would have been 1965. Then had to take it again to qualify me for flight status as a Junior in ROTC. Finally, about six weeks before graduation and getting my commission, I got drafted in error and had to take it yet again. This time, they agreed with me that it was an error, but that they couldn't waive it and screw up all their paperwork. Having already taken the written IQ test twice, I had no problem getting 100% on it - which I immediately learned was about a "once a year" thing with them. At the exit interview, I had both the Army and Navy guys promising me flight and sub schools. Boy were they disappointed when I said that I already had orders to report to Air Force flight school.

Regarding the 'draft', my experience, mid - late '60s, mandatory registration at local Selective Service office at 18 years old. Next at some point (more often than not soon after) came via mail official letter ordering to report to X location on X date and time, for physical & psychological testing which generally was at a nearby military medical facility and was not done individually but in groups of X potential draftees.

Traveled as a group (all under 20 years old, some still in high school) by charter bus to testing location (Louisville, KY / Ft. Knox here), fed and spent night in civilian hotel on Army's dime. Testing all day next day. Fed and spent night at hotel again on Army's dime again. Those who completed testing satisfactorily, regardless pass of fail, fed then traveled back to pick up point by charter buss next morning. A few tried 'tricks' attempting to fail testing, got caught and had to stay longer for retesting.

Was kinda bizarre, high school athlete 'Jocks' wearing letter jackets singing in unison and laughing, on the bus home, "Hallelujah, we're unhealthy ..."

Actual draft order to report for duty happened at some point later via mail. That was a one-way trip. During that period, high numbers of warm bodies were in very high demand so (no surprise) original minimum passing test scores were lowered enough to meet recruit numbers requirement.

(U.S. Marines happened to be 'drafting' a few at that time, too. They did ask for volunteers first, though...)

In '69 the politics of the war whether right or wrong weren't on my radar...Just too busy being transferred from an R&D squadron at Eglin AFB to active gunship training..

Flying Close air support out of Phu cat was primarily dusk to dawn flight ops which took awhile getting used to.

After having only a few engagements under the belt it was quite obvious to never underestimate your adversary

but be willing to change engagement SOP's or tactics at a moments notice...My '69 & 70 adventures gave me the greatest respect for the guys in the trenches as well as the hardships they endured daily..

Amen, Flem. It was Gospel truth that the most dangerous month in combat was your first two weeks, and your last two. The first because it took time to realize that all your training was obsolete because the enemy had changed tactics. The last two because you got over-cautious and unwilling to risk anything. Either one could you killed.

By my time, they no longer told you exactly when you were going home. That kept you sharp until you got surprised with a "go home" notice. I got mine while airborne on a mission over Cambodia. The radio said to return to base and pack my stuff.

My experience as well Rocky..I stopped at Ops to check my crew assignment and tail number for the upcoming night missions not to find my name on the grease board..

A WTF moment for sure as I realized stateside orders must be pending since I was so Short..

Once the lottery was in place, you could be one day past 19, or one day short of 21. I turned 21 in AIT. Since I was only responding to a mention of the draft, I did not say where I was sent. While in AIT an executive order came out prohibiting the sending of any more draftees to VN. I went to Korea.

I grew up dirt poor, was putting food on the table by picking up pop bottles while in grade school, and worked full time during high school. The law limited the number hours one could be employed in high school, but in addition to my job in a grocery store I cut lawns and did what odd jobs I could find.

I was an angry old man by the time I was drafted. I brawled for a hobby. Any time, any place.

1972 was the first time 18 year olds could vote in a national election. The army was not prepared to enable that. The local election office wanted a mailing address for an absentee ballot, and I had no idea where I was going to be if inducted. The army was unwilling to let me return home to vote.

Inductees were placed into one of 5 categories depending on ASVAB score. Go home, do anything you were told to do without question, future leaders, the constant questioners, and those egg heads that would develop something like the Covid vaccines without any thought to consequences.

I fell at the top of the of the constant questioners and just below egg head status. My first couple of weeks in basic saw me sent to the shrinks a couple of times. I received a good conduct medal upon discharge, but I was pitched out of every unit I was assigned to.

For doing things like this, every time a request for bodies came in, I was offered up. There was a major inspection coming up at the battery I was at. I was guarding a Nike Hercules site secure location. When the inspector showed up at my post, my mustache was cut down like Hitler's, my forelock was combed down onto my forehead, and I was goose stepping around the guard shack. When asked what my job was, I goose stepped over to the oil burner space heater, patted it and responded that I was in charge of the showers.

Everywhere I was sent, I asked first to be sent to Camp Howard as they had the best mess hall, and if that was refused I asked to be given the worst job that nobody else wanted. I usually got the worst job, but eventually I ended up at Howard. If you are doing the worst job, everybody leaves you alone.

In Korea, and you can look this up on the net, the Korean Government and the US military began a joint prostitution program. The Koreans promoted prostitution as a way to better the economy.

The prostitutes were allowed into the EM clubs. At the battery, the medic checked the VD cards and condoms were available. More so than good food, warm clothes, and heat. This was during the oil embargo, and we were allowed oil for the space heaters one hour each morning and night.

At Howard, the prostitutes came in a back gate a short distance from the EM club. Upon arrival at the guard shack, I checked their ID and VD card, issued a pass numbered to the storage slot for their paperwork, and sent them into the club. Upon selection by a GI, the prostitute and GI would return to the shack for her paperwork. At this point I would show the GI that she had tested clean that week, hand her back her paperwork, give a short safe sex lecture, and give the GI 3 condoms. I let them pick their condoms out of a large container. The rocket ships were the most popular.

I really enjoyed the mess hall at Howard. I had been stealing cans of dog food from the guard dog supply and mixing it with ramen and eggs from the village. I was 6' 2" when drafted, 121 pounds and had a metabolism like a humming bird. At night I would heat it on the oil space heater.

And no, we did not get our jobs and benefits back as promised. I was given a different job, and refused health care for 90 days. To add insult to injury, when I turned 65 I applied for VA health care and was means tested out of it. Thank you Billy Clinton. It took three years, but eventually they had to give it to me as I was injured in Korea.

Once you sign up you forever lose any personal right to choose moral and just behavior. "Serving my country" is a thin ethical shield against crimes and sins committed in her service. Such an excuse got plenty of soldiers shot or hanged when their side lost. Vietnam, like most wars was evil, immoral, and extremely profitable. There was no national security risk at stake at all, no humanitarian crisis either. LBJ rewarded his deep pocket backers and psychopathic generals like Bombs Away LeMay, who helped him kill JFK and escape prison. I have a lot of sympathy for those duped into service but there was nothing patriotic much less heroic in it. Many of them kill themselves every week. It was a sick, abysmal waste. I refused.

Sucks to be you, I'm sure!

Yup, both Crash Pad and eclectic seem to rank somewhere between dipschit and azzwipe on the manly man scale.

A real man raised his hand, took the oath, and did his effing job.