Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Carbon powder ring

I had a inline years ago and gave it away to a kid. I recently picked up a cheap Wolf2 and quickly remembered what I disliked about shooting sabots. I'm shooting Harvester sabots over loose 777 and even if I brush good between shots, getting that sabot to seat the last inch is extremely difficult after the first shot and after 3 or 4 it's almost impossible. I don't have this problem with minis in my old side lock.

I don't expect 15 shots but what can I do to improve my results? Also is there a product that works well for removing any plastic residue on the rifling? Right now I'm cleaning with hot soapy water followed by CLP.

Switch to Holy Black. We run T/C sabots in our inlines and don't have the ring like that. If we have any at all it gets gone easily when we "clean" (dry brush, dump soot, water damp patch, alcohol patch, dry patch) between shots for "clean barrel" groups when sighting in or checking zero.

When we final clean it's brushing and patching with cold water and then a half dozen patches with Gumout carb cleaner. No plastic left in the bore, just clean and shiny.

I remove plastic with Acetone.



Sounds like you have a crud ring from 777 ignition and 209’s. A friend dropped back to 70grs 777 from 100grs and his ring went away. He also spit patch/dry patch between shots.

I spit patch between shots followed by a dry patch with my CVA Optima. It easily removes the crud ring.

Look for bottle of the product to clean residue form shot cups in shotguns .Sorry, can't remember the name.

Are you using the recommended low-power primers? They were designed to reduce that crud. Other propellants in the 777 family like White Hots supposedly are cleaner too. When I was shooting 777 regularly, simply brushing it out was sufficient, but then I was lighting it with percussion caps in a sidelock.

Using a MagSpark and BH209 in a sidelock, I was able to shoot plenty of shots before things got tight. Power Belts loaded more easily than sabots too. Best of all, the barrel was easily cleaned with BH solvent, though any nitro solvent is supposed to work.

add a lubed wad over the powder. keeps the crud ring soft.

lubed wad is a good suggestion but a better idea is to scrap 777 altogether.
Use Pyrodex or better yet, BP
Good luck

I’m using the Chedite primers. They were the only ones available to me. I’ve tried 90-100 gr of 777. Maybe I’ll drop off and start w 80. Groups hav not been great anyway

Just watched this today. They didn’t use the 777 primers for this test either, but IIRC White Hots were the cleanest-burning of those tested, had low SDs, and gave good velocities.



I still recommend BH209 over other substitutes, but realize that price and availability are major issues with it right now. I’m sitting on a 5-pounder I scored before “the troubles” so that’s what I’m using in any gun I can light with primers.

Good luck.

yeah BH209 is $10/ounce around here. Drugs are cheaper. I don't want to shoot a MZ that much.

IIRC, I paid about $250, give or take, for that 5-pound jug. At the time, a 10oz bottle was about $50 most places.

No more 777 crud rings and no more Blackhorn 209 hang-fires. I use White Hots pellets these days. In my sidelock, Goex real black.

Use a cooler primer like Winchester 777 primers.

They help, but it's not a solve it all problem. Just the set back to using 209 primers.

With sidelocks, you'll normally get a reverse crud ring where powder fouls up heavier at the muzzle.

Seeing how it's a cva wolf v2, you could also swap the northwest conversion on to it and use musket caps.

I have a wolf and shoot 777 3f with musket caps and a 495gr no excuses with a over powder wad. I do get a ring....but I can shoot 5x easily without patching.

I tried switching to the White hots. It helped the crud ring some but I'm still having difficulty with that last inch. The upside is my groups tightened up nicely so I'll stick with them for now ant start looking for some different primers to try in the off season.

Well I guess I need an education since it's
never too late to learn something, even when
what little hair you have left is grey

What exactly is a "carbon ring "?
I've been shooting and hunting with muzzleloading
rifles for right at 4 decades, and have yet to
experience a carbon ring that I'm aware of.
I only use traditional, so is it a thing exclusive to
inline rifles ? What is it, and what is the cause of
such a thing ?

I had heard the carbon ring called a crud ring.

I am new to Mz shooting. I experienced it with my first and only Mz a Remington Ultimate Muzzleloader three seasons ago. I started out with the Rem bullets which are 250 gr Barnes in a special sabot. Rem said using Blackhorn 209 would void the warranty. I used 777 pellets.

After the first shot pushing the bullet and sabot to bottom was difficult. Third shot was almost impossible. Both those loads encountered a resistance near the bottom which I had read it was a crud ring. Residue of some sort clinging to the barrel. If a cleaning patch was used between shots it was easy to load. Also a spit patch in the field followed by a dry patch made loading easier.

I put in an arrowhead breech plug and began using BH209 and crud ring was gone! Multiple loading became easy.

It is good to know that white hots are not making as bad a crud ring as 777 pellets.

I always run a wet patch and then two dry dry patches after every firing. That is the condition of the bore when I shoot an elk. If necessary, I can always get one more shot, but that is infrequent for me. I use BH209 or black. I gave up on 777 and Pyrodex long ago.
Now that BH209 is $60 for 8 ounces, it will be straight black for me once I use the jug I have now.

Best way I can describe it is a burnt powder ring sitting slightly in front of where the sabot should sit. In my old side locks shooting minis or patched round balls over black I never had an issue with seating the bullet over the powder. Now with the plastic sabots being so tight they get hung up on that crud to the point you can not force the sabot fully down on the powder quickly without swabbing the barrel between shots.While that's easy enough to do at the bench, I'm concerned with being able to reload in the field when I need a quick followup.