A separate thread shows pictures of the sten gun being made in Canada during WWII, presumably to be shipped off to the front.
My question is, could Canada (or Great Britain, for that matter) not have done better? I have learned those things were very unreliable, plus they even look rickety. Cheap stamped parts that failed, poor ergonomics, inaccurate, jamo-matics, etc. Unsafe. I've seen some on display in museums, and they look like cheap junk.
The Germans had the very effective Schmeisser in 9MM during WWII, and the Finns had stamped 9MM's even before the war that were proven reliable. And the Russians had a drum mounted 9MM that was half decent. Is the sten gun the best the English and Canadians could have done for their troops? Seems like it wouldn't have taken much to up that game a bit.
Just wondering.....
Carry what you’re willing to fight with - Mackay Sagebrush
I have fired and owned several Sten guns over the years. They were all very reliable, accurate for a submachinegun and easy to fire full auto. My experience applies only to British manufacture but don't believe the Canadian version different
Both the Sten and the replacement Sterling were reliable. The Cdn C1 (SMG) was actually the Canadian version of the Sterling which replaced the Sten in the 1950s.
(Edited to add) The design was good enough to get them through WWII and into the 1950s. It was cheap to build and reliable enough to keep building. Like all firearms, technology advanced and the Sten became a Sterling.
The C1 (Cdn Sterling) was one of the wpns I trained on, used and maintained as a wpns tech, when I was in the service. The only thing that I personally did not care for was that the magazine well was easily banged out of shape. I spent time hammering them straight after users let them bang around inside vehicles. The up side is that the repair wasn't particularly difficult.
As far as I'm aware, the only construction difference was that our SMGs were made from more stamped metal vs cast like the Brit ones. It was a cost cutting thing. The trigger guard was also bigger.
Early in my career, I was the member of a four man aircraft wpns load crew on the CF104. I was called a "Four man". The four man drove the motorized bomb jack (MJ-1) that lifted bombs, rocket pods, etc. onto the plane. As the four man, I carried the SMG, the so called "firepower" should we come under fire at close quarters. SMGs were hung off the spot light you can see on the jack. Being slung there caused the "hanging and banging" which damaged the mag wells when the bomb jack was moving at more than a crawl.
Here is an SMG video for those who haven't seen one up close.
The only trouble I've heard of with a Sten was using them with a completely full mag - the ones I've used were best loaded with 30 rounds.
You have to remember the state of things immediately post Dunkirk - the British army had left huge quantities of material in France, invasion looked probable and they needed something RFN. Right F...ing Now. As someone famous once said, a good plan now is better than a perfect one tomorrow.
They were made by the thousands in NZ also - a large number in the Radio Corporation in Wellington, and parts were also made in the NZ Railway workshops in Petone.
Both the Sten and the replacement Sterling were reliable. The Cdn C1 (SMG) was actually the Canadian version of the Sterling which replaced the Sten in the 1950s.
(Edited to add) The design was good enough to get them through WWII and into the 1950s. It was cheap to build and reliable enough to keep building. Like all firearms, technology advanced and the Sten became a Sterling.
The C1 (Cdn Sterling) was one of the wpns I trained on, used and maintained as a wpns tech, when I was in the service. The only thing that I personally did not care for was that the magazine well was easily banged out of shape. I spent time hammering them straight after users let them bang around inside vehicles. The up side is that the repair wasn't particularly difficult.
As far as I'm aware, the only construction difference was that our SMGs were made from more stamped metal vs cast like the Brit ones. It was a cost cutting thing. The trigger guard was also bigger.
Early in my career, I was the member of a four man aircraft wpns load crew on the CF104. I was called a "Four man". The four man drove the motorized bomb jack (MJ-1) that lifted bombs, rocket pods, etc. onto the plane. As the four man, I carried the SMG, the so called "firepower" should we come under fire at close quarters. SMGs were hung off the spot light you can see on the jack. Being slung there caused the "hanging and banging" which damaged th dre mag wells when the bomb jack was moving at more than a crawl.
Here is an SMG video for those who haven't seen one up close.
Come on Steve, you know you loved to drive your hammer at max speed. I was a 1,2,3 man at different times on F4,F15 and F16.
They will vote our way into socialism, We will have to shoot our way out.
Every major horror in the world was perpetrated in the name of altruism.
Come on Steve, you know you loved to drive your hammer at max speed. I was a 1,2,3 man at different times on F4,F15 and F16.
Yeah, it was fun to try for warp speed, but with rear wheel steering and no weight in the front end, it was really a game of chicken. Who would back off first? When I was in Decimomannu (Sardinia), the Germans used to race constantly. There was a rumour (not verified) that they had VW engines in their MJs.
Both the Sten and the replacement Sterling were reliable. The Cdn C1 (SMG) was actually the Canadian version of the Sterling which replaced the Sten in the 1950s.
(Edited to add) The design was good enough to get them through WWII and into the 1950s. It was cheap to build and reliable enough to keep building. Like all firearms, technology advanced and the Sten became a Sterling.
The C1 (Cdn Sterling) was one of the wpns I trained on, used and maintained as a wpns tech, when I was in the service. The only thing that I personally did not care for was that the magazine well was easily banged out of shape. I spent time hammering them straight after users let them bang around inside vehicles. The up side is that the repair wasn't particularly difficult.
As far as I'm aware, the only construction difference was that our SMGs were made from more stamped metal vs cast like the Brit ones. It was a cost cutting thing. The trigger guard was also bigger.
Early in my career, I was the member of a four man aircraft wpns load crew on the CF104. I was called a "Four man". The four man drove the motorized bomb jack (MJ-1) that lifted bombs, rocket pods, etc. onto the plane. As the four man, I carried the SMG, the so called "firepower" should we come under fire at close quarters. SMGs were hung off the spot light you can see on the jack. Being slung there caused the "hanging and banging" which damaged the mag wells when the bomb jack was moving at more than a crawl.
Here is an SMG video for those who haven't seen one up close.
As a medic, the Sterling was my issue personal weapon from 1979-1987/88 when we converted to the C7/8 rifle. This was due to it being A) a short range defensive weapon only and B) it being easy to manipulate inside a vehicle such as an ambulance. As a medic, I was only permitted under the GC to defend myself and my casualties from direct attack. Casualties on a stretcher hated it. When slung, it would very often swing around and slam them in the head while there were being carried on the litter, usually resulting in a headache or worse. As a defensive weapon, I hated it due to the short range it offered. My thoughts on defense of self and casualty are based on "I don't want the enemy that frigging close too me." And as Steve mentions, when slung inside a vehicle out of the way, they had a tendency to bounce around and off the interior, causing potential magazine and mag well damage among other things. I was at my happiest when I chosen as the C2 gunner for Evac platoon. The C2 was/is a selective fire version of the FN FAL used as a suppressive fire weapon defending a forward medical facility for example. My sidearm was the Browning Hi Power in 9mm P. Good times! Jeff
The last year I was in Germany, they installed an SMG holder in many of the vehicles. That didn’t remedy the problem of crappy slings though.
Did they not issue the 10 rd mags to you guys, Jeff? That sort of helped with the damage to the mag wells. The 30 rd mags were kept in a pouch or in the pocket of your combats.
When we were loading a/c, all members of the crews carried a Hi Power. That made sense. My SMG was left on the jack.
The last year I was in Germany, they installed an SMG holder in many of the vehicles. That didn’t remedy the problem of crappy slings though.
Did they not issue the 10 rd mags to you guys, Jeff? That sort of helped with the damage to the mag wells. The 30 rd mags were kept in a pouch or in the pocket of your combats.
When we were loading a/c, all members of the crews carried a Hi Power. That made sense. My SMG was left on the jack.
Hi Steve, There were SMG holders in the cab of the 5/4 ton ambs but none in the back. We would simply hang the gun where ever we found an unused spot, pretty rare in an ambulance. My M113 had nowhere to hang one, just stash it someplace handy. They took a beating to be sure.
All I ever saw were the 30 round mags. Carried in a pouch on the webbing or in a combats pocket. Pretty rough on the pockets but it worked when not wearing webbing. I don't think I ever heard of a 10 round mag. Must have been a flight-line thing? I know, moving casualties from the front-line or, when attached to a rifle company, the 30 would certainly be the mag of choice. Good times! Jeff
That was so typically military. They give you equipment, but few or no accessories. Guys were buying holsters, mag pouches, field msg books, etc. in Trenton prior to deployment overseas. I hope things got better.
The 10 round mags were for pers who spent a lot of time in vehicles - transport drivers, medics, firefighters, etc. We always had problems getting mags into the field. They were an attractive item that often disappeared.
Here's a "for instance". Magazines were B class items. But if you ordered the parts separately - mag body, spring, follower - everything was C class. When I was stationed down east, just before our sqn was deployed, the base armament guys "appropriated" all our Hi Power mags. We kept everything in metal 20mm ammo cans for deployments - but none of the cans had locks. I am guessing, but Base Armt was probably short, so they "borrowed" ours (everything was kept in their lockup). Immediately thereafter, new cans went to base workshops and had locks fitted.
My WO came aboard me for allowing Base Armt to take them, but I couldn't so anything. I had no access to their facility. Everything was alarmed and sqn pers were not on the access list with the MPs. The mags weren't serialed or marked "property of ...". Anyway, they were replaced piecemeal with parts.
Guys deploying to Afgan were buying gear like crazy, ballistic plates/carriers, rucksacks, boots you name it. Lots of that happening with the Latvia deployment now even. Still pretty pizz poor gear availability it seems.
When I deployed on the Sarajevo Airlift, the flak vest I was issued was gun taped together at the shoulders. And that was best one I could find at B Sup in Edmonton. Honestly, the only thing that fit correctly was the flight helmet as it was custom fitted to me, perm issue as long as I was in a flying position. We were unarmed as per the UN ROE's. That sucked, flying into Sarajevo, often taking fire and no means of defending oneself if shot down and survived. We spent some time on the ground a few times as well, fortunately the airfield was well defended but still.....
Crazy the way mags were classified B/C depending on assembled or not really. Sure was helpful to know the right guys. I hung out with the company Weapons Tech in the field. He was a neighbour as well, good guy.
Lots of medical equipment was classed the same way. Made it easy to do repairs on our own if need be though. Med Sup was one of my many talents. Jeff
Just wait until the Chinese invade. The laughs will kill you.
We will quickly find out who in Canada has the balls to stand-up to them and who will greet them with open arms. Jeff
Since they do not have the airlift or sealift capability to invade North America by force. They will have to be allowed to land or be invited. I fear that.
They will vote our way into socialism, We will have to shoot our way out.
Every major horror in the world was perpetrated in the name of altruism.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/BJFE8tt.jpg)
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/AP39Jhm.jpg)
I hope things got better.