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Are they the same design other than the AWR had checkering and the KS did not? I'm only asking about the McMillan stocks and not worried about the difference in the barrel channel dimensions.
Rick
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Same/same; no difference. If there is checkering it’s not a McMillan.
There was never a ks factory stocked with a B&C. AWR II was B&C.
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I hope you are wrong as i have a stock sold to me by a long time member here as a AWR that has checkering. It was supposedly sold to him by Ric Bin back when he was painting stocks. One of my favorite stocks to date.
Just to be clear this is not a post about someone selling something it is not. I'm just trying to figure out what I've got.
Rick
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My response was with regard to factory offerings from Remington. The ks and awr share the same McMillan stock and it did not leave the factory with checkering.*
The AWR came out long after the transition from Brown to McMillan, so there will be no Brown manufactured AWR stocks.
There have now been three iterations of the AWR - the awr i (McMillan) awr II (fluted; b&c) and the awr III - AMERICAN WR with grayboe.
After Remington stopped making the KS McMillan started offering the stock. I have no idea if Rick had some made with checkering or not. Certainly a possibility, as that situation existed with the Winchester featherweight pattern. After the winlites stopped, and McMillan began offering that pattern, you could obtain it with checkering. No factory winlite ever had checkering.
*safari ks excluded - safari ks did have checkering.
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The Michigan Man has it right.
The KS is my all time favorite synthetic stock............it fits & feels perfect to me.
I really wish McM still had it available & I also wish it could have been had in a short action version..........the Model 7 KS is just not the same.
MM
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Thanks guys! I appreciate the info
Rick
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The Michigan Man has it right.
The KS is my all time favorite synthetic stock............it fits & feels perfect to me.
I really wish McM still had it available & I also wish it could have been had in a short action version..........the Model 7 KS is just not the same.
MM Absolutely! I have a KS on my .338-06. Best stock ever, IMO.
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I have an early KS in .280 Rem and it has a Brown Precision stock.
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I think Rick had some with checkering back in the day from mcmillan
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I think, everyone who has used, the KS stock on their rifles, are a fan.
I have, 3 KS Remington rifles. They all work great as they should.
Randy
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So the AWR “Alaskan wilderness rifle” is a Kevlar stock? Is this correct?
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So the AWR “Alaskan wilderness rifle” is a Kevlar stock? Is this correct? If it’s the first generation awr yes; it’s a McMillan ks (kevlar stock) in black. Second generation (AWRII) is a B&C
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I hope you are wrong as i have a stock sold to me by a long time member here as a AWR that has checkering. It was supposedly sold to him by Ric Bin back when he was painting stocks. One of my favorite stocks to date.
Just to be clear this is not a post about someone selling something it is not. I'm just trying to figure out what I've got. You MAY have a MHKS - Mountain Hunter Kevlar Special. It was a pattern exclusive to the Remington Custom Shop, and I got a bunch of them years ago when I bought out a big stash of McMillans. I still have two specimens. Does the recoil pad say Remington?
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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"I still have two specimens"
Selling any?
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They’re on rifles.  . Looking for pictures. ![[Linked Image]]( https://www.24hourcampfire.com/images/Ti.jpg) Here is one before paint on a 700 Ti. The bondo is McMillan’s.
Last edited by RickBin; 01/20/24. Reason: Add picture.
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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I had a Remington 700 AWR 300 Win Mag, Alaskan Wilderness Rifle, that I got from the custom shop in the late 90’s, IIRC. It had a McMillan stock without a floor plate. Its stock was uncheckered.
The original McMillan stock eventually split between the action screws in 2016. I replaced it with a HS Precision. It shot great with both stocks but was much heavier with the HS so I traded it.
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They’re on rifles. . Looking for pictures. Here is one before paint on a 700 Ti. The bondo is McMillan’s. That’s a nice pattern. CP? Thanks for weighing in!!!
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So the AWR “Alaskan wilderness rifle” is a Kevlar stock? Is this correct? Another thing to keep in mind - when the KS was introduced in 1986, Remington was using Brown as the supplier of that stock. The Brown absolutely had Kevlar in the shell very much like their pounder. Once the transition to McMillan occurred around 1990-1991, I’m not sure how much Kevlar was actually being used in the shell. Perhaps Rick knows. There is a long post somewhere here in the Campfire from Dick at McMillan re: KS “fill.”
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Found it: Guys,
This is not a change in procedures, this is the way it always has been. We make all our stocks as light as we think we can and not have a lot of failures with broken out recoil lugs or fore-ends broken off trying to get the barreled action out of the stock after a bedding job.
We have always gotten a lot of orders requesting "light fill" or "light as possible fill" or "KS" fill or "mountain rifle fill" or "upside-down left-hand Vulcan fill", and we have always filled the stocks with our standard fill. That is "light as possible". We have always gotten a small weight variation in our stocks, one or two or three ounces. It is not the exact science you may think. Molded in colors weigh an ounce or two more than a painted stock. The resin is warmer in the summer than in the winter and may have a bit more bleed out of the mold when it's under pressure,etc. There are a lot of little variables.
When we mix in interior fill for the stocks it is mixed in big Hobart bread mixers in batches of 10 lbs or 20 lbs. Each batch has a certain receipe for that fill. When we started doing the KS stocks for Remington we needed to take about one, repeat one, ounce off the stocks to make their weight, so we added one extra cup of microbaloons to the standard fill to make KS fill. It saved about one ounce per stock. We only mixed it when we had a batch of KS stocks to fill. We have never mixed up a batch to use 3/4 of a pound to fill one stock and then thrown the other 9+ lbs away just to save one ounce on a single stock. Since Remington is discontinuing the "KS" rifles after a 25 year run due to lack of sales we will not be mixing KS fill again.
Doesn't matter, we never did it anyway except for the KS stocks and there is more that one ounce variation in the stocks anyway.
So, nothing has changed. The stocks will not be any heavier than they have ever been. We are not making them any different that we have for the last 10 or 15 years. We will still accept orders with any terminology of fill you want to say, and we will still make them the way we have always made them "as light as possible". It's just that now you know how it's really done. Magnum fill is just a more solid glass (more glass fibers in the resin)in the action area, and adds about 4 to 6 ounces to the stock. It's used for anything from the big .338's and up. Standard fill seems to be fine for all the calibers up thru the big .30's. "Sniper fill" is just "magnum fill" with the butt filled with the same light weight solid mixture we use in the fore-end so that it will support some of the hareware options.
The only reason I decided to bring this subject up is because my e-mail volume is way up (I'm not complaining) but so I didn't have to answer so many e-mail about the weight difference between "light fill", "light as possible fill", "KS fill" and "mountain rifle fill". The answer is "none at all"
Regards to all, Dick D.
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These MHKS weighed about 27 oz. The info I had was that McMillan didn’t like using Kevlar because it was hell on the mills in terms of dulling bits, but that was anecdotal, although from a very very good source.  They eventually transitioned to EDGE carbon fiber, and as many will remember, early (shall we say Gen 1) EDGE stock in hunting patterns averaqed ~23 oz finished. Thereafter, they slowly got heavier until, the last time I was handling them before Kelly sold, they were averaging more like ~27 oz — right where the Kevlar Specials had been a decade before. The biggest loss here though was the mold. I believe that since it was a Rem Custom Shop exclusive, McM couldn’t sell stocks from this mold to the GP. Then when Rem and McM parted ways on their arrangement, this mold (and also the 40XB KS -and yes, I still have some ) was destroyed. Damn shame. I like it better than the subsequent Mountain Hunter due to the more open grip, and I like it better than the AWR and KS due to the checkering.
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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Thanks Rick.
Same fate for the SA KS. Mold gone.
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I see from the 2007 thread that I may have misremembered the weight on those MHKS stocks. I could have sworn they were ~27 oz but I guess I must defer to my “recollection” from 17 years ago and say they came in at 24 oz, and not 27. In any case, my favorite of that “family” of patterns, to include the newer KS, AWR, and Mountain Hunter, is the MHKS. If that mold were to exist still in some spider-webbed corner of McMillan’s factory ... 
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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I see from the 2007 thread that I may have misremembered the weight on those MHKS stocks. I could have sworn they were ~27 oz but I guess I must defer to my “recollection” from 17 years ago and say they came in at 24 oz, and not 27. In any case, my favorite of that “family” of patterns, to include the newer KS, AWR, and Mountain Hunter, is the MHKS. If that mold were to exist still in some spider-webbed corner of McMillan’s factory ... Hello! McMillan could learn a lot from this post. Thanks Rick!
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Thomas Jefferson
GeoW, The "Unwoke" ...Let's go Brandon!
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More on the short action ks from Dick D. I think they were initially ordered for the 40x 22 sporter; and the remaining found their way onto some saum ti’s. Guy's, The reason we only have a long action KS is that they have a long action ejection port molded into them. I suppose if you want one inletted for a short action and don't mind the long action ejection port then we can do that.
At one time the custom shop ordered about 100 of the KS's for short action's so we made one mold for them. Apparently they did not sell well and Remington told us they were dropping them and never ordered any more stocks. After the mold set around for a couple of years with no use we broke it down to re-use the metal parts for another project.
Not very many of these KS stocks get ordered, not more that 3 or 4 a year. We can't keep setting up a big CNC machine just to inlet one stock as it costs us more to inlet it that we make on the stock. We will keep one KS mold and one model 7 KS mold to made a few stocks for warrantee use as required but any private orders for one of them will have a $100 inletting surcharge for them to make up for this. Sorry, but business is business. Things come, they change, they go and we move along.
Dick at McMillans. From this thread: https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...-mcmillan-s-a-ks-stock-no-go#Post9415755
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Really like the stocks on the model seven Alaskan wilderness saum's.
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Really like the stocks on the model seven Alaskan wilderness saum's. And those are McMillans right? I have a couple and love them as well
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Really like the stocks on the model seven Alaskan wilderness saum's. And those are McMillans right? I have a couple and love them as well Yes. But brown made the original version as well - obviously well before the awr.
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for you guys that want a ks stock why dont you just get the original from brown precision
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for you guys that want a ks stock why dont you just get the original from brown precision KS is a hair narrower in the forend; but yep, otherwise identical and best/only new option.
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![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/4xPvTnHF/B7-CD3-EC9-0-AE2-41-DB-84-AA-2-B4-B90-C06536.jpg) Width at forend is 1.7” (L) 1.35” (R).
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That looks wider than I would want.
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It’s slight, but it is perceptible.
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maybe they can make one that narrow if you order one...I know Nate at hillbilly rifles said they make ones with a narrow/smaller grip area if you wanted
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Yes mine has a Remington pad on it.
Thanks for the info Rick!
Rick
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