With the questions answered as asked. The cartridge doesn't determine the accuracy. With that said, the 6.5C was designed to be as potentially accurate as cartridge design goes.
“You never need fear a man, no matter what his size. When danger threatens, call on me, and I will equalize.” Samuel Colt.
�Common sense is genius dressed up in work clothes.� - Ralph Waldo Emerson
It depends on the gun, the barrel, the load, etc. Less recoil makes a rifle easier to fire. Following the specs Hornady created for the chamber, it is a very forgiving round with a good match between ammunition and rifles, but there are no guarantees.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a tad more accurate than the venerable 308 Win?
So this is a subforum about HUNTING rifles, not necessarily target rifles. I don't think there's a practical difference nor consistent accuracy advantage of one cartridge over the other unless perhaps you are sticking with only factory ammo. In that case, there is probably more consistency between 6.5 Creedmoor chambers, rifle to rifle, meaning it is easier to make factory ammo with lower tolerances that fits more of the rifles. Once you're into handloads, though, and can tailor ammo to a specific rifle, any advantage one way or another vanishes.
For hunting, I think the choice is simple. I have a "bit" of experience with both. If you stop at deer sized game, Creedmoor. If you also hunt elk, .308. My primary load for my .308 uses the 165 grain accubond but it also shoots 180 grain partitions very very well. That is not to say I wouldn't use either of them for either job, or a .243 for that matter, but in the evaluation of shades of gray regarding your question, those are my preferences.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
The Creedmoor was designed as a target cartridge. The 308 was a shortened design of the 30-06 that was done to use less powder and allow the carrying of more rounds in combat. In general the cartridge/chamber tolerances are tighter on the Creedmoor so it has the potential to be more accurate out of the box. That can all be mitigated with precision chambering/load assembly.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a tad more accurate than the venerable 308 Win?
It sure seems like most 6.5 Creedmoors are extremely easy to shoot accurate groups.
Am I wrong? The 6.5 Creedmoor just seems like so eager to please in regards to accuracy.
I have used both quite a bit and both are very easy to get to group well, easier than most cartridges. That being said, I prefer the 6.5 Creedmoor because with it I can push a high BC bullet at reasonable velocities. If I load similar weight bullets out of a .308, they have a much lower BC. If I want to push a .308 bullet that has the same BC as a given .6.5 bullet at the same velocity that I can launch them from the 6.5 Creedmoor, it takes much larger than a .308 case to do it. Recoil is noticeably less with the 6.5 Creedmoor so it is easier to shoot well. I have not seen that one kills better than the other, but the 6.5 Creedmoor is easier to shoot well.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
Accuracy aside, what is the purpose of said choice? Both are capable of excellent accuracy, certainly minute of deer out to a long way. I have both and continue to take the 308 for my deer hunting needs. I have a long and successful history with that rifle and it gets the nod - but that really has nothing to do with the accuracy. In fact, my 6.5 Creed is a bit more accurate.
In the last 10-15 years I have seen a few truck loads of critters killed with the 6.5 CM and the .308 both are accurate, and with a good bullet well placed shot kill well, with comparable rifles I think the 6.5 CM has the edge for all around use.YMMV ----Rio7
Hondo says it very well. If sectional density correlates to penetration, then the Creedmoor shoots bullets with great sectional density at velocities that shoot flatter. These higher velocity bullets have a higher BC...so maintain velocity further (bullet expands more reliably at distance) and drift less in the wind. At close ranges it's more about bullet construction than caliber but a high sectional density can help with penetration.
I keep wanting to add another rifle to pair with my 260 AI (mostly for deer). No reason, just like rifles. I've been looking at a 308 (I'm done with high recoil rifles). Then I start looking at 308 velocities with 165g bullets, the extra recoil, the less than stellar BC, etc. and realize the 308 case is fairly optimized at 26 caliber so what does the 308 do my 260 can't? Honestly, nothing <smile>. I'm still considering getting a 20" barreled 308 with a decently heavy barrel so not too light. In fact I was looking at a Bergara B14 this past week that felt great when pointing it. Hmmm...
Originally Posted by Hondo64d
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a tad more accurate than the venerable 308 Win?
It sure seems like most 6.5 Creedmoors are extremely easy to shoot accurate groups.
Am I wrong? The 6.5 Creedmoor just seems like so eager to please in regards to accuracy.
I have used both quite a bit and both are very easy to get to group well, easier than most cartridges. That being said, I prefer the 6.5 Creedmoor because with it I can push a high BC bullet at reasonable velocities. If I load similar weight bullets out of a .308, they have a much lower BC. If I want to push a .308 bullet that has the same BC as a given .6.5 bullet at the same velocity that I can launch them from the 6.5 Creedmoor, it takes much larger than a .308 case to do it. Recoil is noticeably less with the 6.5 Creedmoor so it is easier to shoot well. I have not seen that one kills better than the other, but the 6.5 Creedmoor is easier to shoot well.
The Creedmoor was designed as a target cartridge. The 308 was a shortened design of the 30-06 that was done to use less powder and allow the carrying of more rounds in combat. In general the cartridge/chamber tolerances are tighter on the Creedmoor so it has the potential to be more accurate out of the box. That can all be mitigated with precision chambering/load assembly.
Exactly. These guys that don't get it, never will. I've had far more good shooting 6.5's than I have 308's. It's in their design to shoot exceedingly well, and yes, you will even see the difference in a common hunting rifle.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
The Creedmoor was designed as a target cartridge. The 308 was a shortened design of the 30-06 that was done to use less powder and allow the carrying of more rounds in combat. In general the cartridge/chamber tolerances are tighter on the Creedmoor so it has the potential to be more accurate out of the box. That can all be mitigated with precision chambering/load assembly.
The .308 has been proven over and over a stellar cartridge along with the .30-06 and yes neither were designed as a target cartridge, but.... they became one. "The 'potential' to be more accurate out of the box", it is or it isn't. If it is so good why would the word potential be in the equation? I shot one out of a supposed set up rifle..... wasn't impressed. Hornady tries hard to stay in the game. Sometimes they win some times they loose. "In general" about tighter tolerances, either it does or it doesn't, no in between. What's so painful about loading the .308 ? LOL With improved bullets, powder and dies, it really isn't that hard to meet or exceed the 6.5 Creedmore design. A bedded rifle in the hands of a good rifleman, loaded with consistent neck tension/OAL, right bullet/powder charge combination, doesn't sound that painful at all. I just don't buy into all the hype about this cartridge.
Hondo says it very well. If sectional density correlates to penetration, then the Creedmoor shoots bullets with great sectional density at velocities that shoot flatter. These higher velocity bullets have a higher BC...so maintain velocity further (bullet expands more reliably at distance) and drift less in the wind. At close ranges it's more about bullet construction than caliber but a high sectional density can help with penetration.
I keep wanting to add another rifle to pair with my 260 AI (mostly for deer). No reason, just like rifles. I've been looking at a 308 (I'm done with high recoil rifles). Then I start looking at 308 velocities with 165g bullets, the extra recoil, the less than stellar BC, etc. and realize the 308 case is fairly optimized at 26 caliber so what does the 308 do my 260 can't? Honestly, nothing <smile>. I'm still considering getting a 20" barreled 308 with a decently heavy barrel so not too light. In fact I was looking at a Bergara B14 this past week that felt great when pointing it. Hmmm...
Originally Posted by Hondo64d
Originally Posted by Dixie_Rebel
Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a tad more accurate than the venerable 308 Win?
It sure seems like most 6.5 Creedmoors are extremely easy to shoot accurate groups.
Am I wrong? The 6.5 Creedmoor just seems like so eager to please in regards to accuracy.
I have used both quite a bit and both are very easy to get to group well, easier than most cartridges. That being said, I prefer the 6.5 Creedmoor because with it I can push a high BC bullet at reasonable velocities. If I load similar weight bullets out of a .308, they have a much lower BC. If I want to push a .308 bullet that has the same BC as a given .6.5 bullet at the same velocity that I can launch them from the 6.5 Creedmoor, it takes much larger than a .308 case to do it. Recoil is noticeably less with the 6.5 Creedmoor so it is easier to shoot well. I have not seen that one kills better than the other, but the 6.5 Creedmoor is easier to shoot well.
John
A bullet diameter can't make this cartridge alone. Where does that leave the 6.5 Swede ? Right there with the Creedmore. The Swede has considerable more case capacity and less pressure. How about that !
Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a tad more accurate than the venerable 308 Win? .
New tooling helps the 6.5 CM, but more importantly, the 308 Win is hobbled with the SAAMI chamber with its HUGE lead. The 308 Win SAAMI chamber was standardized with a 180 RN bullet (1950's thinking), giving a ridiculous jump to the land for spitzer bullets. With equally cut chambers, barrels, and componants, I'd give the edge to the 308 Win. 30's are just easy componant-wise. The bigger the bore, the more forgiving.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a tad more accurate than the venerable 308 Win? .
New tooling helps the 6.5 CM, but more importantly, the 308 Win is hobbled with the SAAMI chamber with its HUGE lead. The 308 Win SAAMI chamber was standardized with a 180 RN bullet (1950's thinking), giving a ridiculous jump to the land for spitzer bullets. With equally cut chambers, barrels, and componants, I'd give the edge to the 308 Win. 30's are just easy componant-wise. The bigger the bore, the more forgiving.
It's not just the jump. The SAAMI minimum dimension for the diameter of the freebore section is well over bullet diameter, unlike the half thousandth specified for the Creedmoor.
Always interesting to read yet another thread involving opinions of the 6.5 Creedmoor from people who've never fired one--and don't know how it's spelled.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
Always interesting to read yet another thread involving opinions of the 6.5 Creedmoor from people who've never fired one--and don't know how it's spelled.
I never drove a new catty, and wasn't impressed drivin an old one either.
For Me a .308 Win does all i need and more as I only hunt whitetails in the Cumberland Mountains where 100yds is a longish shot, plus the .308 Win is reloader friendly with plenty of reloading components available....And if my buddy's saw me toting a Creedmoor of any kind they would think I had turned gay 😁....Good luck..Hb
Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a tad more accurate than the venerable 308 Win?
It sure seems like most 6.5 Creedmoors are extremely easy to shoot accurate groups.
Am I wrong? The 6.5 Creedmoor just seems like so eager to please in regards to accuracy.
It isn't so far in my similar rifles. My lone 6.5 Creedoor, a Kimber Hunter, is a 3 shot, 100 yard 1-1.25" rifle. In fairness, I have only shot the Creedmoor a few times with factory and handloads. It has been easy to load for but hasn't given anything close to the velocities in the manuals. I just picked up three pounds of Sta-Ball 6.5 which may improve it over the H-4350 and REL-15 I have used so far.. FWIW, my .30-06 Montana is about as accurate as the GSR.
The .308's are an 18.7" Ruger GSR Synthetic and a Model 88 Winchester 22". I also have an M!A HB with a Mark 4 scope. The GSR and M88 both do 3-shot groups at 100 yards of 3/4 inch. The M1A ia a 2" 5-shot group rifle.
A previously owned Model 99E in .308 Win was a 3 shot 100 yard 1.75 to 2.5" grouping rifle with its best loads. It went to a BIL.
Is the 6.5 Creedmoor a tad more accurate than the venerable 308 Win?
It sure seems like most 6.5 Creedmoors are extremely easy to shoot accurate groups.
Am I wrong? The 6.5 Creedmoor just seems like so eager to please in regards to accuracy.
... It has been easy to load for but hasn't given anything close to the velocities in the manuals. I just picked up three pounds of Sta-Ball 6.5 which may improve it over the H-4350 and REL-15 I have used so far..
It's been my experience the Staball 6.5 will speed up your MV's over H4350...
It's you and the bullet, and all the rest is secondary.
I use to be strictly a 30-06 and 270 Win man, slowly I warmed up to 7mm-08 and now experimenting with 308 win. I noticed that both 7mm-08 and 308 are very easy to handload to great accuracy to the point that 7mm-08 has become my main hunting caliber. Since I use my firearms to hunt and all my shooting is focused on developing a load and practicing for a hunt I don't think I have any need for 6.5 Creedmoor. I could be wrong.
I use both for deer and prefer the Creed. Flip a coin.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
The 6.5 Creedmoor has been the most well engineered cartridge to come on the scene for a long time. Yes, for target matches, but with proper bullets and conventional to lightweight rifles, they are well suited for hunting. Prior to that in my opinion is the 300WSM. The 6.5CM is super easy to load for and adequate for much of our North American big game. Apparently the perjorative crowd here likes to call any cartridge they don't approve of as "gay". Makes no sense - shoot what you like and I'll do the same.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
Killing power of a creedmoor sucks when you are elk hunting. If anyone wants to chase a wounded elk for a couple miles in thick timber, they are a fool. Can you kill an elk with a creedmoor at reasonable distance? Yes Can you also easily lose one at those distances? Yes
Who worries about recoil when you aren’t on a bench? I can almost guarantee anyone that has shot an elk, and lost one with a creedmoor, now hunts with a 300 wsm or similar lol. I have been hunting with the same rifle for 30 years. 225 grain partition dumps em every time. I couldn’t give two sh!+s about ballistic coefficients at 600 yards lol.
Oh yeah, one other thing. Got a 5x5 bull opening day this year with that outdated, heavy, inaccurate.308 lol. 95 yards
It’s funny how you can talk to bow hunters about elk hunting (likely shooting an maximum of 50 yards) and in the same day talk to a guy that thinks he needs to have the flattest shooting rifle at 800 yards. All this paper shuffling statistics is all BS. I have shot one Mule deer at 275 yards about 20 years ago. Everything else has been 150 yards or less.
I would be shocked to find a factory rifle that outperforms anyone of my 55 yr old Sakos. Anything over 1/2” group at a 100 is a disappointment from any of them
I would be shocked to find a factory rifle that outperforms anyone of my 55 yr old Sakos. Anything over 1/2” group at a 100 is a disappointment from any of them
Yep... older bro bought an ouhgt six Finnbear deluxe on closeout back in the 70's ($175)... bout 10 yrs back, 3 of us shot a group with it @ 100 yds (1 shot each) his buddy and i had never shot it before, our shots were touching... bro shot and said "fugg!, i think i flinched", (he had just finished sighting in his 870 turkey load) ... his was the flier, group measured just over .600...
i think it was 2008 or '09 when i got a 6.5 Creedmoor in 15" MGM barrel for my TC Encore. then i shot several deer with it. 2 or 3 years later, i got another 6.5 CM in a 16 1/4" MGM barrel with a High Plains Saphire laminated rifle stock. i shot several deer and 2 years later i bought another 6.5 CM in a 23" MGM barrel. i shot several deer with it. i shot 120gr Nosler BT, 120gr Hornady SST, 140gr Nosler BT and 140gr Hornady SST. i used several IMR powders, Varget and Superformance. i found Superformance powder to be about with these barrels. the barrels would go on average 1/2 - 3/4" groups at 100 yards (5 shots/bench), with a couple of 1/4 - 3/8" groups at 100 yards (5 shots/bench). a few years later, i sold the barrels because i got bored with it. not harping on 6.5 caliber, but i think it is a real good caliber and it doesn't matter if you use the 6.5CM or 260 Remington or 6.5 Swede.
i had a Remington m760 in 308 Winchester. i'd use 150gr, 165gr, 170gr and 180gr Hornady with many powders. i killed many deer and one black bear (396lbs). then i got bored and sold it. if you want 308 Win speeds, then go to an old cartridge, 7.65x53 Argentine.
"Russia sucks." ---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
I would be shocked to find a factory rifle that outperforms anyone of my 55 yr old Sakos. Anything over 1/2” group at a 100 is a disappointment from any of them
You CLUELESS Fhuqking Droolers are a hoot! Hint.
Retard Twist Rates,Living Walnut and Blued Finishes are fhuqking HILARIOUS! Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!………
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Yep- I was sure drooling after packing out my 11th bull elk! I had emergency brain surgery 4 years ago and they still can’t escape me! Spending all this time whacking off to paper targets, b.c.’s, etc is a joke. I’ll just keep stacking animals while you laugh !
It's your Imagination,simply Pretend with it in the manner you NEED most. Hint.
A 264 Kreedmire will simply scoot a .697 BC at 2700fps,with very modest recoil and the 308 has NO "answer". Hint.
Pardon reality and the simple fact that I shoot it all and then some,as you wax eloquent on your Homoerotic Fantasies...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
You'd need a fhuqking co-signer,for the tape alone. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!...........
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Lol- The only person fhuqking laughing is the girl in front of you when you remove your pants-
You are a condescending clown as I have watched you try to crap on everyone in this forum. Who gives a crap about hitting a target that’s holding still at 600-900 yards. It holds still. Once you dial it in, it’s pretty much cruise control. Seriously? I gave one of my buddies a rifle of mine and called out his holds and he hit a 16” piece of steel on his first 5 shots. He had never shot at that distance before that day. I could have him confident at 600-800 yards in a half hour. Seriously, it’s not that big of a deal. BTW, that is with an 8 power scope on a m4. Can you eat that target? Who gives a crap about your hand loading? You think you are the only one that can load ammunition? You don’t know my history or my understanding of ballistics, military ballistics experience, commercial ammunition loading experience, etc.. None of that plays a role in hunting. Thanks for the video of you beating up your rifle and trying to treat everyone like they are beneath you Likely that shooting mat is the only thing you have laid on in a while lol. Wash your mouth out and get some manners. Your mother would be disgusted of you
'Four legs good, two legs baaaad." ---------------------------------------------- "Jimmy, some of it's magic, Some of it's tragic, But I had a good life all the way." (Jimmy Buffett)
You Brokedick Crying Karens are a HOOT!...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Keep Pretending aloud with your GoogleFu. Pardon wares that exist,as you wax eloquent on your Hurt Feeler Reports. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!...........
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Just recognize him as the lying blowhard fraud he is. LOL
All words, 57,000+ posts and absolutely ZERO to show for it. Deceived the ignorant for a while, but even most of them saw the BS after a while.
His "long range hunting" is head shooting a dink buck off the bait pile, and bragging about what a hard charger he is. LOL.
Throw another rifle in the rocks, put a stinky dead fish next to it, drool over big BC and OAL numbers, and look in a mirror and tell yourself you're the best. HINT. It's THE shtick.
Saw a dude on YouTube making 1800 yard shots in 10-12 mph winds with a 308 winchester. He was using berger 200 grain bullets. The rifle was heavy enough, that he'd watch the impacts from the riflescope. He hand measured the bullets and determined that the ballistic coefficient was greater than .700.
I dunno what the handload was, but way out of my league. I've only run 200 grain bullets to 500. Bucked the windy/dusty Tanana badlands pirdy good. I've been loading at least a half dozen different 200 grain 308 win handloads since 2011.
Always chose the 240 bravo machine gun for my gun truck, over the 50 cal, because it was so reliable/convenient. Convenience and familiarity are the 7.62 nato. My gunner was only 5 ft 3 and had a hard time hoisting up a 50 cal to his turret. He'd be 20-30 minutes quicker set-up over the other gunners fking with the 50 cal.
Never could shake the 308 winchester. I've always appreciated what it is.
Good thing all them moose in Sweden and up north north in Alaska where the sourdoughs hunt with old Mausers don't know how weak the 6.5 bullets are for hunting. Of course, they don't have access to the interwebs, so they aren't up to speed.
The 139 Scenar in a 6.5 Creedmoor is more than equal to the 155 Scenar in a 308.
MRKbass2, have you ever even fired a 6.5 Creedmoor? Let alone hunted with one?
Didn't think so.
Originally Posted by MRKbass2
Killing power of a creedmoor sucks when you are elk hunting. If anyone wants to chase a wounded elk for a couple miles in thick timber, they are a fool. Can you kill an elk with a creedmoor at reasonable distance? Yes Can you also easily lose one at those distances? Yes
Who worries about recoil when you aren’t on a bench? I can almost guarantee anyone that has shot an elk, and lost one with a creedmoor, now hunts with a 300 wsm or similar lol. I have been hunting with the same rifle for 30 years. 225 grain partition dumps em every time. I couldn’t give two sh!+s about ballistic coefficients at 600 yards lol.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
No-I am proud to say I haven’t been foolish enough to hunt elk with a creedmoor. I also prefer women. A Lapua scenar is a crap bullet for hunting so I don’t even get the comparison you are trying to make. That is a target bullet, and would be my preference compared to throwing a rock, but that’s about it. I am just stating that all of this B.C. trash talk has absolutely ZERO to do with elk hunting. Unless BC stands for bullet construction, then I am listening. And a moose is an easier kill than an elk for what it’s worth
Correct- Zero Scenars. Nobody around here is foolish to use that thing in the woods. Too many inexperienced people try to judge a bullet performance based on the facts that is drops 2” less at 500 yards. Who gives a crap about that? Absolutely pointless. I want a bullet to perform when it connects, and Lapua does not make that bullet. Keep thinking what you like. I don’t need to feel like I convinced you. I’ll post more pics next fall of my elk that I shoot.
If you can only choose one of the two calibers assuming your using it for hunting. 308 win is a no brainier. Accuracy is a tie, they can both shoot one hole groups at a 1000 yards. They've been using the .308 as a 1000 yard sniper rifle for years. If the slight more recoil from the .308 is a problem probably should stick to targets. Don't mean that in a bad way.
I wouldn't pay to much attention to Big Stick (little dick/mangina). He/she can give a hint but that's about it. Not capable of giving good explanations or making any sense of anything. He/she thinks he/she is good at belittling people. He/she doesn't realize we can see right through his mental illness. He/she needs to be under psychiatric care and maybe is. I feel sorry for He/she, it must be hard to live with those couple marbles bouncing around between the ears. I wish he/she the best, maybe someday you'll make some progress between the ears and be able to communicate like rest of us. Not like me to speak so unChristian like but he/she needs to get the message that it's hard going through life being an a55hole.
I'm wondering how many of you guys have actually shot similar rifles chambered for these cartridges, side by side. Just to see how they compare? Say, even out to 400 yards. Doesn't even have to be out to 1,000.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
My local range has targets at 1-600 yards. I practice at 400 2-3 times a month with multiple rifles in 223/5.56, 243,6.5 grendel, 260,7-08,308, 7RM, 35 Whelen. Obviously the whelen drops the most, but when a 225 partition whacks that steel you can see the ability lol
Bsa what rifle is that? If you aren't careful about the pics you post the short barrel whiners club (swbc) gonna ban your ass..mb
The one on the closest bench is my Winchester heavy barrel varmint chambered in 308 win. The rifle on the far bench is my Tikka CTR in Mcmillan A3 Edge stock, chambered in 6.5 Creedmoor. I think that was where I asked, how many guys have actually shot both cartridges side by side. It doesn't even have to be out to 1,000 yards, but even to 400 yards. See which one performs better, under the same conditions. I believe the OP was about which one is actually more inherently accurate, or which one shoots better. As I and others have said, the 6.5 Creedmoor was designed specifically for longrange target shooting. Developed by creedmoor sports and partnered with Hornady. The naysayers can deny that, but that was the intent of the cartridge. It edges out the 308 winchester in performance, as that is what it was designed to do. Guys that continue to deny that, are living in a dreamers world.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I buy that theory bsa and like both . I have a win 88 and a rem 760 in 308 they didn't make them in 6.5's but have plenty of bolt guns in both and like them. People on the fire only see virtue in sticking their opinions up everyone else ass are the problem.
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
Why the hell is this in a forum dedicated to reloading?
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
I don't see the 6.5 creedmoor edging out the 308 winchester anywhere. Hopefully im not "dreaming" here.
This is a big game rifle reloading forum, which the 6.5 obviously will not edge out the 308 winchester, especially on really big game.
But if we must get caught up on this long range and bench-only stuff: Has anyone on here actually shot a fast twist, heavy barrel 308 winchester using 200+ grain bullets, against the usual 6.5 creedmoor bullets?
One guy claimed the 200 grain bergers bucked winds better out at 1800 yds, than anything the 6.5 creed shoots (read his video description). He claimed his biggest challenge, was the WINDS, not the minor differences in trajectory.
I made sure to comment in the video: "the 6.5 douch nozzle will never exceed the 308"
Why the hell is this in a forum dedicated to reloading?
Perhaps because it is clearly relevant.
You asked for cartridge comparison, nothing about reloading.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
Why the hell is this in a forum dedicated to reloading?
Perhaps because it is clearly relevant.
You asked for cartridge comparison, nothing about reloading.
Reloading is clearly part of comparing cartridges for those of us who reload. 😂
Yet you didn't mention reloading at all. Why not if that is where your interest lies?
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
Having never shot the .308 or the 6.5 CM to 1800 yards, but have shot them both to 1000 yards using several different bullets and powder combinations, my experience has been the 308 is like shooting a mortar compared to the 6.5 CM with comparable bullets. YMMA Rio7
I buy that theory bsa and like both . I have a win 88 and a rem 760 in 308 they didn't make them in 6.5's but have plenty of bolt guns in both and like them. People on the fire only see virtue in sticking their opinions up everyone else ass are the problem.
I agree. I think it's because they are very biased because that is what they use and know. Like I said, they probably don't actually compare them side by side, in real world conditions. The reason that 308 was on one bench, and the 6.5 on the other is because I really wanted it to whoop up on the 6.5, yet still I shoot with no bias. I was hoping to take it to a longrange match, but it would be a handicap. That damn winchester shoots pretty good though. Until the wind started howling. I was even running a 175 SMK in the 308, to try to make things as fair as possible. The rifle loves that bullet. I'd also like to point out that I shoot with some guys that run the 308w in competition. They do well with it, but I have seen them fall apart, when the wind blows. Then on the other spectrum, you have the guys running the 6mm's giving them schidt (friendly of course). Those fast 6's shine in bad conditions. We hear it often that they don't even have to adjust their hold, then I look down at my 6.5 and think maybe I should try a 6GT.
These comparisons are always fun, but then it becomes a pissing match because the guys that only use one will get mad, because we point out why one is a little better than the other.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Having never shot the .308 or the 6.5 CM to 1800 yards, but have shot them both to 1000 yards using several different bullets and powder combinations, my experience has been the 308 is like shooting a mortar compared to the 6.5 CM with comparable bullets. YMMA Rio7
That is what it seems like to me as well. Great description RIO7.. Maybe I'm using the wrong bullet? Figured a 175 SMK would be about right in the little case, yet still have a good BC. Besides, I'm maxed out on the 20 moa rail and NF scope at 1,000. That's another issue when running the darling 308win. Step up to a 200gr pill to gain BC, and that issue gets even worse.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Thanks Dixie Rebel. All I can do is share my experiences. I do a lot of side by side comparisons. To me, that tells me the most about different rifles, cartridges, loads, bullet weights, scopes, etc. etc... I shoot a lot in the wind, in really cold temps and hot weather as well. Besides shooting with a lot of pretty good long range competitors. Nothing tells the story like a bullet on target...
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
Like the 30-06 a point in favor to me is inexpensive brass. Lot of 308 floating around for a good price. Local Scheels had 50 ct boxes of Hornady 6.5 C for $43 a box the other day that would be $172 for 200 pcs. I didn't have a real need for anymore but when I spotted 200 once fired Hornady 6.5 C cases for 50 bucks I bought them. Like 308's 6.5 C is everywhere you look and you know that's a big plus..mb
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
We shot yesterday at 620yds on 6”, 8” and 12” steel.
1 - 6.5 cm tikka 20” ctr - 140 eldm @ 2530fps 1 - 6arc savage 18” tactical- 105 hpbt @ 2490fps 2 - 308 win Rem 700 heavy barrel and an ar10 of some flavor. 168 smk in both
The guy with the 308’s struggled the most, winds were 12-20mph shifting quarter to and broadside right to left. Obviously other factors come into play when shooting but he has 3 hits in 30 shots on the 12” plate. He didn’t have much experience in longer range shooting but I gave him my ctr and he went 9/9 with it, he’d never shot the rifle prior to that.
We shot yesterday at 620yds on 6”, 8” and 12” steel.
1 - 6.5 cm tikka 20” ctr - 140 eldm @ 2530fps 1 - 6arc savage 18” tactical- 105 hpbt @ 2490fps 2 - 308 win Rem 700 heavy barrel and an ar10 of some flavor. 168 smk in both
The guy with the 308’s struggled the most, winds were 12-20mph shifting quarter to and broadside right to left. Obviously other factors come into play when shooting but he has 3 hits in 30 shots on the 12” plate. He didn’t have much experience in longer range shooting but I gave him my ctr and he went 9/9 with it, he’d never shot the rifle prior to that.
One of my .308’s is going to be a 6cm soon.
Good post H. Be aware that the 6cm barrel life is very short. Some of the guys I shoot with have had them, then ultimately go back to the 6.5. I'm talking about 1,100 rounds and that's about it. One of the big downfalls to the fast 6mm's. You should also look into the 6GT vs. the 6CM. That GT is a pretty wicked little cartridge.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
That is what it seems like to me as well. Great description RIO7.. Maybe I'm using the wrong bullet? Figured a 175 SMK would be about right in the little case, yet still have a good BC. Besides, I'm maxed out on the 20 moa rail and NF scope at 1,000. That's another issue when running the darling 308win. Step up to a 200gr pill to gain BC, and that issue gets even worse.
What velocity are you getting with that 175? I think you should need roughly 40 moa of up, so you should only need 20 out of the scope.
That is what it seems like to me as well. Great description RIO7.. Maybe I'm using the wrong bullet? Figured a 175 SMK would be about right in the little case, yet still have a good BC. Besides, I'm maxed out on the 20 moa rail and NF scope at 1,000. That's another issue when running the darling 308win. Step up to a 200gr pill to gain BC, and that issue gets even worse.
What velocity are you getting with that 175? I think you should need roughly 40 moa of up, so you should only need 20 out of the scope.
You'd think huh. I'm running right on the edge of 2700 (2690 fps) in the 26" barrel. Got it fairly zeroed at 100, which is what I like. Tested in extreme cold, and also hotter temps:
It's a pretty stable load, from the testing I've done. I don't want a 200 yard zero, or some other nonsense like that, because I still shoot a lot at 100 yards.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
We shot yesterday at 620yds on 6”, 8” and 12” steel.
1 - 6.5 cm tikka 20” ctr - 140 eldm @ 2530fps 1 - 6arc savage 18” tactical- 105 hpbt @ 2490fps 2 - 308 win Rem 700 heavy barrel and an ar10 of some flavor. 168 smk in both
The guy with the 308’s struggled the most, winds were 12-20mph shifting quarter to and broadside right to left. Obviously other factors come into play when shooting but he has 3 hits in 30 shots on the 12” plate. He didn’t have much experience in longer range shooting but I gave him my ctr and he went 9/9 with it, he’d never shot the rifle prior to that.
One of my .308’s is going to be a 6cm soon.
Good post H. Be aware that the 6cm barrel life is very short. Some of the guys I shoot with have had them, then ultimately go back to the 6.5. I'm talking about 1,100 rounds and that's about it. One of the big downfalls to the fast 6mm's. You should also look into the 6GT vs. the 6CM. That GT is a pretty wicked little cartridge.
Yeah I knew there was a pretty short span on the 6cm. I shoot with a guy using a 6GT and it’s pretty sweet. He said he’s had hits at 1 mile with it on a 20-24” plate. I won’t be shooting the 6cm a ton as I’ll have it and my 6.5cm but it will be something to mess with.
We shot yesterday at 620yds on 6”, 8” and 12” steel.
1 - 6.5 cm tikka 20” ctr - 140 eldm @ 2530fps 1 - 6arc savage 18” tactical- 105 hpbt @ 2490fps 2 - 308 win Rem 700 heavy barrel and an ar10 of some flavor. 168 smk in both
The guy with the 308’s struggled the most, winds were 12-20mph shifting quarter to and broadside right to left. Obviously other factors come into play when shooting but he has 3 hits in 30 shots on the 12” plate. He didn’t have much experience in longer range shooting but I gave him my ctr and he went 9/9 with it, he’d never shot the rifle prior to that.
One of my .308’s is going to be a 6cm soon.
Good post H. Be aware that the 6cm barrel life is very short. Some of the guys I shoot with have had them, then ultimately go back to the 6.5. I'm talking about 1,100 rounds and that's about it. One of the big downfalls to the fast 6mm's. You should also look into the 6GT vs. the 6CM. That GT is a pretty wicked little cartridge.
Yeah I knew there was a pretty short span on the 6cm. I shoot with a guy using a 6GT and it’s pretty sweet. He said he’s had hits at 1 mile with it on a 20-24” plate. I won’t be shooting the 6cm a ton as I’ll have it and my 6.5cm but it will be something to mess with.
Nice. I had the same thoughts with one of my CTR's. I have 2 near identical rifles. One I shoot mainly 140 ELD match bullets in, and the other I shoot 147's in. Like I've told you before, the 147 really shines in the wind buddy. However, I still run 140's in my M&P10 Performance Center, and that rifle just shoots!!! I was hoping to use that in a longrange speed match I did 2 saturdays ago, but the match director said I had to single load it!!!!@@@!!! Ha ha. Well, it's not a true "speed" match then!!! That AR10 would have smoked those targets out to 800 yards.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
That is what it seems like to me as well. Great description RIO7.. Maybe I'm using the wrong bullet? Figured a 175 SMK would be about right in the little case, yet still have a good BC. Besides, I'm maxed out on the 20 moa rail and NF scope at 1,000. That's another issue when running the darling 308win. Step up to a 200gr pill to gain BC, and that issue gets even worse.
What velocity are you getting with that 175? I think you should need roughly 40 moa of up, so you should only need 20 out of the scope.
We shot yesterday at 620yds on 6”, 8” and 12” steel.
1 - 6.5 cm tikka 20” ctr - 140 eldm @ 2530fps 1 - 6arc savage 18” tactical- 105 hpbt @ 2490fps 2 - 308 win Rem 700 heavy barrel and an ar10 of some flavor. 168 smk in both
The guy with the 308’s struggled the most, winds were 12-20mph shifting quarter to and broadside right to left. Obviously other factors come into play when shooting but he has 3 hits in 30 shots on the 12” plate. He didn’t have much experience in longer range shooting but I gave him my ctr and he went 9/9 with it, he’d never shot the rifle prior to that.
One of my .308’s is going to be a 6cm soon.
Good post H. Be aware that the 6cm barrel life is very short. Some of the guys I shoot with have had them, then ultimately go back to the 6.5. I'm talking about 1,100 rounds and that's about it. One of the big downfalls to the fast 6mm's. You should also look into the 6GT vs. the 6CM. That GT is a pretty wicked little cartridge.
Yeah I knew there was a pretty short span on the 6cm. I shoot with a guy using a 6GT and it’s pretty sweet. He said he’s had hits at 1 mile with it on a 20-24” plate. I won’t be shooting the 6cm a ton as I’ll have it and my 6.5cm but it will be something to mess with.
Nice. I had the same thoughts with one of my CTR's. I have 2 near identical rifles. One I shoot mainly 140 ELD match bullets in, and the other I shoot 147's in. Like I've told you before, the 147 really shines in the wind buddy. However, I still run 140's in my M&P10 Performance Center, and that rifle just shoots!!! I was hoping to use that in a longrange speed match I did 2 saturdays ago, but the match director said I had to single load it!!!!@@@!!! Ha ha. Well, it's not a true "speed" match then!!! That AR10 would have smoked those targets out to 800 yards.
I tried the 147’s from my American Predator and they shot amazing at 100yds but when I went out to 600 they were 12-15” consistently. Another guy I shoot with had similar results with 147’s, maybe we both just got bad batches.
I need to revisit them but I’ve had such good luck with the 140’s I’ve not tried the 147 again.
Interesting thread, I have found the 6 CM does not burn barrels unless you hot rod it keep the fps under 3000 fps and the barrels last surprising long time,I have 1 with over 3500 rounds down the tube and it still shoots lights out. YMMV--- Rio7
I suspect the rate of fire and number of shots in a string are the biggest factor. Powder selection has a role as well in my experience with other cartridges...
That is what it seems like to me as well. Great description RIO7.. Maybe I'm using the wrong bullet? Figured a 175 SMK would be about right in the little case, yet still have a good BC. Besides, I'm maxed out on the 20 moa rail and NF scope at 1,000. That's another issue when running the darling 308win. Step up to a 200gr pill to gain BC, and that issue gets even worse.
What velocity are you getting with that 175? I think you should need roughly 40 moa of up, so you should only need 20 out of the scope.
Something must be off with the setup.
Sure it is. It gets me out to 1,000. That is all I really care about. Even though it's lacking in other departments. Like RIO said, the 308 is more like a mortar round, than a precision instrument. I'll use what works, and shoot the 308 when it doesn't matter as much. The new saying, "it is what it is", applies.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
We shot yesterday at 620yds on 6”, 8” and 12” steel.
1 - 6.5 cm tikka 20” ctr - 140 eldm @ 2530fps 1 - 6arc savage 18” tactical- 105 hpbt @ 2490fps 2 - 308 win Rem 700 heavy barrel and an ar10 of some flavor. 168 smk in both
The guy with the 308’s struggled the most, winds were 12-20mph shifting quarter to and broadside right to left. Obviously other factors come into play when shooting but he has 3 hits in 30 shots on the 12” plate. He didn’t have much experience in longer range shooting but I gave him my ctr and he went 9/9 with it, he’d never shot the rifle prior to that.
One of my .308’s is going to be a 6cm soon.
Good post H. Be aware that the 6cm barrel life is very short. Some of the guys I shoot with have had them, then ultimately go back to the 6.5. I'm talking about 1,100 rounds and that's about it. One of the big downfalls to the fast 6mm's. You should also look into the 6GT vs. the 6CM. That GT is a pretty wicked little cartridge.
Yeah I knew there was a pretty short span on the 6cm. I shoot with a guy using a 6GT and it’s pretty sweet. He said he’s had hits at 1 mile with it on a 20-24” plate. I won’t be shooting the 6cm a ton as I’ll have it and my 6.5cm but it will be something to mess with.
Nice. I had the same thoughts with one of my CTR's. I have 2 near identical rifles. One I shoot mainly 140 ELD match bullets in, and the other I shoot 147's in. Like I've told you before, the 147 really shines in the wind buddy. However, I still run 140's in my M&P10 Performance Center, and that rifle just shoots!!! I was hoping to use that in a longrange speed match I did 2 saturdays ago, but the match director said I had to single load it!!!!@@@!!! Ha ha. Well, it's not a true "speed" match then!!! That AR10 would have smoked those targets out to 800 yards.
I tried the 147’s from my American Predator and they shot amazing at 100yds but when I went out to 600 they were 12-15” consistently. Another guy I shoot with had similar results with 147’s, maybe we both just got bad batches.
I need to revisit them but I’ve had such good luck with the 140’s I’ve not tried the 147 again.
Maybe your rifles just don't like them. They will generally shoot 1" groups at 400. On a very calm day about a month ago, I was running them out to 1,000. Walking it up incrementally, like I do most times. Shot enough at 600 yards with no misses on 10" plate, the same at 700 and 800, so at 900, I got dialed in and rang the 10" steel plate numerous times. When I got to the 1,000 yard plates, I zeroed in on the big plate, and sent 3 to the 10" steel plate. Group looked to be about 3", so I packed up and called it a day. Good enough for the girls I hang out with.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
With a 20 moa rail there was only 33 moa of up available from a 100 yard zero?
Am I seeing it right?
Yes, you are seeing that right. Why does it always seem like you and some of the others here are trying to catch me in a lie or something? The rifle is staying just as it is. The way it is set up is fine. This is about cartridges. We all know you love the 308, but indeed it does have its limitations. Whether you want to admit that, that is up to you.
You are also more than welcome to post some pics, and let us know how your beloved 308's do. I'd really welcome that. It may be an eye opener. I've shown some pretty small groups shot at 400 yards on paper and steel, with the 6.5. Show us some of your 308 targets. Thanks!!!
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
We shot yesterday at 620yds on 6”, 8” and 12” steel.
1 - 6.5 cm tikka 20” ctr - 140 eldm @ 2530fps 1 - 6arc savage 18” tactical- 105 hpbt @ 2490fps 2 - 308 win Rem 700 heavy barrel and an ar10 of some flavor. 168 smk in both
The guy with the 308’s struggled the most, winds were 12-20mph shifting quarter to and broadside right to left. Obviously other factors come into play when shooting but he has 3 hits in 30 shots on the 12” plate. He didn’t have much experience in longer range shooting but I gave him my ctr and he went 9/9 with it, he’d never shot the rifle prior to that.
One of my .308’s is going to be a 6cm soon.
Good post H. Be aware that the 6cm barrel life is very short. Some of the guys I shoot with have had them, then ultimately go back to the 6.5. I'm talking about 1,100 rounds and that's about it. One of the big downfalls to the fast 6mm's. You should also look into the 6GT vs. the 6CM. That GT is a pretty wicked little cartridge.
Yeah I knew there was a pretty short span on the 6cm. I shoot with a guy using a 6GT and it’s pretty sweet. He said he’s had hits at 1 mile with it on a 20-24” plate. I won’t be shooting the 6cm a ton as I’ll have it and my 6.5cm but it will be something to mess with.
Nice. I had the same thoughts with one of my CTR's. I have 2 near identical rifles. One I shoot mainly 140 ELD match bullets in, and the other I shoot 147's in. Like I've told you before, the 147 really shines in the wind buddy. However, I still run 140's in my M&P10 Performance Center, and that rifle just shoots!!! I was hoping to use that in a longrange speed match I did 2 saturdays ago, but the match director said I had to single load it!!!!@@@!!! Ha ha. Well, it's not a true "speed" match then!!! That AR10 would have smoked those targets out to 800 yards.
I tried the 147’s from my American Predator and they shot amazing at 100yds but when I went out to 600 they were 12-15” consistently. Another guy I shoot with had similar results with 147’s, maybe we both just got bad batches.
I need to revisit them but I’ve had such good luck with the 140’s I’ve not tried the 147 again.
Maybe your rifles just don't like them. They will generally shoot 1" groups at 400. On a very calm day about a month ago, I was running them out to 1,000. Walking it up incrementally, like I do most times. Shot enough at 600 yards with no misses on 10" plate, the same at 700 and 800, so at 900, I got dialed in and rang the 10" steel plate numerous times. When I got to the 1,000 yard plates, I zeroed in on the big plate, and sent 3 to the 10" steel plate. Group looked to be about 3", so I packed up and called it a day. Good enough for the girls I hang out with.
If mine would have shot them like that I’d have a pile of them, lol. My batch and the batch the other guy had trouble with were bought at the same store around the same time, maybe they were weird. I think I remember reading where guys had some trouble with them early on?
Sounds like I need to hunt up another box to test.
The bullet testing can get CRAZY, I have all kinds of 1/2 empty boxes of bullets that just didn't work well for me, now when I find a Bullet and Load that works real well for what I plan on using it for I stop! my curiosity is satisfied. Rio7
With a 20 moa rail there was only 33 moa of up available from a 100 yard zero?
Am I seeing it right?
Yes, you are seeing that right. Why does it always seem like you and some of the others here are trying to catch me in a lie or something? The rifle is staying just as it is. The way it is set up is fine. This is about cartridges. We all know you love the 308, but indeed it does have its limitations. Whether you want to admit that, that is up to you.
You are also more than welcome to post some pics, and let us know how your beloved 308's do. I'd really welcome that. It may be an eye opener. I've shown some pretty small groups shot at 400 yards on paper and steel, with the 6.5. Show us some of your 308 targets. Thanks!!!
Slow down man, you're way off base. I'm simply confused about why with a 20 moa base and a Nightforce scope you can't dial 40 minutes of up from a 100 yard zero. That's it.
I just went to the Nightforce website and looked at several models. Of those I checked the one with the least elevation adjustment range still showed 80 moa. When centered, that's 40 up and 40 down. Combine that with a 20 moa base and now there's 60 up and 20 down. This should allow for finding 100 yard zero and still leave plenty to add the roughly 40 moa to get the 308 out to 1000. Honestly, I'm just trying to understand the situation.
Furthermore, I'm very well aware that 140 grain hybrid target Bergers out of my my 700 5R Milspec in 6.5 drop and drift less than the various 308 loads I shoot.
Last edited by mathman; 12/25/23. Reason: better sentence edit
I picked up a box of those Berger hybrid target bullets at a gunshow here awhile back same as yours care to share what powder you are using? Merry Christmas too.mb
Last edited by Magnum_Bob; 12/25/23.
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
With a 20 moa rail there was only 33 moa of up available from a 100 yard zero?
Am I seeing it right?
Yes, you are seeing that right. Why does it always seem like you and some of the others here are trying to catch me in a lie or something? The rifle is staying just as it is. The way it is set up is fine. This is about cartridges. We all know you love the 308, but indeed it does have its limitations. Whether you want to admit that, that is up to you.
You are also more than welcome to post some pics, and let us know how your beloved 308's do. I'd really welcome that. It may be an eye opener. I've shown some pretty small groups shot at 400 yards on paper and steel, with the 6.5. Show us some of your 308 targets. Thanks!!!
Slow down man, you're way off base. I'm simply confused about why with a 20 moa base and a Nightforce scope you can't dial 40 minutes of up from a 100 yard zero. That's it.
I just went to the Nightforce website and looked at several models. Of those I checked the one with the least elevation adjustment range still showed 80 moa. When centered, that's 40 up and 40 down. Combine that with a 20 moa base and now there's 60 up and 20 down. This should allow for finding 100 yard zero and still leave plenty to add the roughly 40 moa to get the 308 out to 1000. Honestly, I'm just trying to understand the situation.
Furthermore, I'm very well aware that 140 grain hybrid target Bergers out of my my 700 5R Milspec in 6.5 drop and drift less than the various 308 loads I shoot.
It's kind of a pisser for sure. When I set it up, I was thinking if it got me out to 1,000 yards, I'd be happy. Maybe the 20 moa rail is not a true 20 moa rail? That is all I can figure. I had to take the first one back, because the packaging said winchester short action, when it was really for a WSM!!! I guess I didn't want to go through the hassle again, since I bought that one in Reno, which is 170 miles from my house. I do know that the scope tracks very well, and is pretty much spot on, as you can see from the tall target test I did last month. Here's the ballistics chart I use, showing it's pretty much spot on with what the calculator says it should be:
In a way, it's not bad if I dial all the way up I know I'm at 1,000 yards. It's like a zero stop for 1,000 yards. Or I can dial 12 or 13, and use the reticle. it's not a big deal, either way.
Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.
I picked up a box of those Berger hybrid target bullets at a gunshow here awhile back same as yours care to share what powder you are using? Merry Christmas too.mb
I shoot 4350, both H and IMR, with the other bullets I've loaded. Nothing against the other powders you mentioned, I simply haven't gone outside of the 4350 family much at all.
Wow, that .496 ballistic coefficient of that 175 grain smk is abysmal at best. From a 26" barrel, the velocity of your handload is mediocre as well. Ive literally spelled out to you, what powder gives max velocity in the 308. Ive been seeking the 308 max for over a decade, essentially loading/testing every flavor of 200 grain hunting bullet ever made. To put this in perspective, a silly 200 grain hot cor flat base spitzer has a .556 BC!
Honestly BSA, you're a very devoted handloader and precision shooter. I'm certain that you, over anyone else, should be able to extract much more long range performance from the 308, before you tip your hat to the 6.5 creed. You're not even devoted to giving the 308 winchester a fair handshake. You sht on the 308 all the time, in favor of the 30-06. I've even seen you opine that a 200 grain bullet is too long for the 308?
You can fix this stubborn ignorance if you want to do the work.
You cannot deny the massive, decades long library of accomplishments from the 308 winchester. It's truly bizarre, that less case capacity and a few degrees difference in shoulder angle, would matter that much. I think it's marketing rubbish at best. A precision barrel with match chamber dimensions, and proper rifling, there's really no 6.5 creed advantage. Almost all serious barrel makers have decades of history, building 308 barrels.
Does your 308 even have a 1:10" barrel? Wasn't that model a 1:12" barrel? Non of this silly business 1:11" tikka 1:12" winchester. As much shopping as you do, the 1:10" 308's are so common, you could literally sleep-walk into one for purchase. Common dude!
Serious guys that are shooting lots of 308 at extended range, aren't using silly, low bc rubbish. Anyhow, they're in stock and available if you want to do the work:
Mike, Back in 2002-2005, I had lived on Ft Richardson Alaska. The old 425 beluga ave military housing has long since been torn down.
Our 501st neighbor won the sniper combat challenge in 2002 and 2004.
It was filmed on outdoor life network, so we got to watch it. Nato forces from other nations competed. Our entire housing complex rooted for him like it was NFL football! He deployed alot. When I wasn't deployed, I snow-blowed the entire unit and would clean snow off and move the spouses cars and shovel steps/porches. He thanked me when he'd get back, and we'd look over couple of his rifles. Yep......that 7.62 Nato was the bread n butter rifle.
I can't belive the level of bllsht these 6.5 caliber, pipe-dream gun authors have puked in the gun magazines. Do these fkn idiots know where the .308 has been?
FWIW I know a National Champion FTR shooter who uses the 215 grain Bergers.
I'd guess out of the longer barrels they aren't exactly slow either are they Mike?
I'll confirm Thursday if I remember to ask, but I'd guess 2550 FPS. They do arc up much higher than a 155 at 3010 FPS, easy to miss the trace at first.
FWIW I know a National Champion FTR shooter who uses the 215 grain Bergers.
I'd guess out of the longer barrels they aren't exactly slow either are they Mike?
I'll confirm Thursday if I remember to ask, but I'd guess 2550 FPS. They do arc up much higher than a 155 at 3010 FPS, easy to miss the trace at first.
Thanks Mike. Appreciate it. Even 2550 isn't exactly slow for such a slippery bullet.
Mike, Back in 2002-2005, I had lived on Ft Richardson Alaska. The old 425 beluga ave military housing has long since been torn down.
Our 501st neighbor won the sniper combat challenge in 2002 and 2004.
It was filmed on outdoor life network, so we got to watch it. Nato forces from other nations competed. Our entire housing complex rooted for him like it was NFL football! He deployed alot. When I wasn't deployed, I snow-blowed the entire unit and would clean snow off and move the spouses cars and shovel steps/porches. He thanked me when he'd get back, and we'd look over couple of his rifles. Yep......that 7.62 Nato was the bread n butter rifle.
I can't belive the level of bllsht these 6.5 caliber, pipe-dream gun authors have puked in the gun magazines. Do these fkn idiots know where the .308 has been?
I'm certainly not there yet, but I have friends who regularly win big matches with Palma rifles shooting against the any/any rifles. A lot to be said for mastering one bullet at one speed exclusively with regards to wind. I've been squadded with them and seen it in action.
It definitely is, but everything drifts in the wind. I'm just not in the same camp as one prolific poster here who once proclaimed " A 1 moa target at any range, in any wind is a cake walk for any of my 6.5 Creedmoors" ... grin.
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Your enthusiasm is noted. Can't imagine it "wears" that "exciting" BC number for long though with such a leisurely launch speed. I've had a Physics class or three... and learned thangs.
I squirt 'em at 2700fps+,from more than a few rifles so chambered,with less than zero Emotional attachment or Imagination. The beauty of BC,is that advantages start at the muzzle and only get better,as they exit and head down range. That,in non lineal fashion. Hint.
Spent Primers Are THE Supreme Tutorial and you "get" to read about it. Hint.
Here...now you can say you've "seen" one,which makes this a very BIG Day,for someone like you. Hint.
Gals who "know" and "do" as "much" as you,will always be best served by asking questions,raher than giving"answers". Hint.
Bless your heart for trying though. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Said melding,is "only" Supersonic to 1500yds++,in this morning's atmosphere. Hint.
Gals who "know" and "do" as "much" as you,will always be best served by asking questions,rather than giving "answers". Hint.
Bless your heart for trying though. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Imitation remains THE most Sincere form of Flattery and your only "move",as you tread water and suck ass. Hint.
Gals who "know" and "do" as "much" as you,will always be best served by asking questions,rather than giving "answers". Hint.
Bless your heart for trying though. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I'll assume you don't know the answer to my question then. I am curious about the atmospherics you show in JBM though, not what I pictured for your location.
Gals who "know" and "do" as "much" as you,will always be best served by asking questions,rather than giving "answers". Hint.
Bless your heart for trying though,as you "live" vicariously. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
This is an amazing combo. I do not shoot, nor pick apart nearly as many loads as you do, but for my needs, the 147 loaded to 2745fps, does not make deer very happy. They also are incredibly accurate in both of my Creeds, and the one .260 that I have tried them in. Win, win.
You did not "seen" anything, you "saw" it. A "creek" has water in it, a "crick" is what you get in your neck. Liberals with guns are nothing but hypocrites.
It's a great melding,that will keep a guy out of trouble,near and far. Hint.
They've done exceptionally on Brown Bear,Grizzly,Black Bear,Mooseses,Elk,Caribouski,Goats,Sheep,Woofs and all flavors of Venison. It's an EASY default button to mash and has stolen the stage in these part and folks I know. Nobody has stepped up and changed course. Hint.
I shoot 'em in Kreed,260,260AI,6.5-06 and 264Win. They are best in the Kreed',because you can't drive them fast enough to compromise penetration,even at spittin' distances. They reliably hurt the very Tender Feelers of Drooling Dumbfhuqks and that never ain't not fhuqking HILARIOUS. Hint.................(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Thanks for the picture, but still not looking like the 0% humidity in your JBM data.
Sweetheart,
Feel free to enter the values,that satiate your Raging Estrogen Levels the best. Then simply pop (3) Midol and insert 1000cc's of Vagisil in your usual locations,as you Re-Hissy your Fit and talk out your Amazingly Fhuqking CLUELESS Ass. You Drooling Dumbfhuqks are a hoot! Hint.
Gals who "know" and "do" as "much" as you,will always be best served by asking questions,rather than giving "answers". Hint.
Bless your heart for trying though,as you "live" vicariously. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Just curious as to how many understand that at 175 yards it is no longer the .697 G1 as quoted but is lower. At 300 yards it is lower still. I'm not one to get too hung up on minute differences in mfr. provided BCs. The air density you are shooting through is something to pay attention to though as ranges extend.
FWIW I know a National Champion FTR shooter who uses the 215 grain Bergers.
I'd guess out of the longer barrels they aren't exactly slow either are they Mike?
I'll confirm Thursday if I remember to ask, but I'd guess 2550 FPS. They do arc up much higher than a 155 at 3010 FPS, easy to miss the trace at first.
Thanks Mike. Appreciate it. Even 2550 isn't exactly slow for such a slippery bullet.
2550 FPS +/- depending on powder lot. N150 in a long throated FTR chamber. Wouldn't work in a typical .308 hunting rifle magazine.
The difference in BC at 175 vs at the muzzle is so trivial that it plays an insignificant role in where the bullet lands, all things being equal.
Maybe comes into play for a 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor past 600, depending on bullet and speed. On deer sized game, the shooter and the animal will never be able to tell the difference in point of impact due to BC variables from 0 to 600 yards.
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
The difference in BC at 175 vs at the muzzle is so trivial that it plays an insignificant role in where the bullet lands, all things being equal.
Maybe comes into play for a 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor past 600, depending on bullet and speed. On deer sized game, the shooter and the animal will never be able to tell the difference in point of impact due to BC variables from 0 to 600 yards.
David, Exactly, that is the point and why I said to not get too hung up on minute BC differences. Selecting one bullet because it has a slightly higher published BC than another brand is often a distinction without a difference in real world applications. Kind of like seeing hunting rifle groups measured to a thousandths of an inch.
And then there is the individual bullet to bullet BC variation.
A $20 bill,is never not bigger than a $10 bill,no matter the pitch or frequency of the Whine. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!…………..
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Besides being a CLUELESS Drooling Dumbfhuqk,you are a Lying Piece Of Fhuqking Schit,if you say you “blew up” a .697 BC 147gr ala Kreed’. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!…………
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I have not blown one up, don't shoot that cartridge, but that does not mean I have not been squadded with shooters in matches that have.. The 7mm 180s have an even worse reputation.
Perhaps it is your dry climate that keeps it from happening in your location
I “only” shoot the .284” .796 BC 180 in 7-08,7-08AI,Mouser,284Win,280,280AI and 7mmRemMag,though I keep meaning to build a 284 Kreed’. I’ve yet to zook one and have probably only shot 15,000 or so. Barely get 180” of rain. You are doing “GREAT!”. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!………..
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
The "dry climate" was referring to the atmospheric data you provided earlier in this thread, I took you at your word... guess you were doing just OK that day.
I can only post what I have seen at my local ranges, which host some big matches BTW. Great they are working so well for you.
As plainly cited prior,simply plug any/all values that soothe your Raging Estrogen Levels and simply extrapolate in kind. Pardon my simply shooting wares that exist,as you GoogleFu your Pretendathon. Hint.
You AMAZINGLY Stupid Fhuqks never disappoint,by simply doing your best. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!………….
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
ELDMs may be the Leupolds of match bullets. Some have no issues at all with them while others do. The guys that lose 10 points to a bullet blow up on the first day of a multi day match are in for a long weekend. The guys that lose an animal to a scope issue feel the same.
The ELDM is far and away,the projectile I shoot most often. I’ve only had 100+ Reupold’s though. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!…………..
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
Pardon wares that exist,stumping Brokedick Whining Fhuqks. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!………….
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I'd pick .308 on the basis that it recoils more. Once you can consistently shoot heavy full-power .308 loads into a tiny group, then you can shoot just about any hunting cartridge accurately and the recoil won't bother you.
I'm simply the guy that shoots it all and then some,as you Crying Kchunts Whine Aloud,with your GoogleFu and Pretend,while "living" vicariously. Hint.
Fortunately for you gals,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even YOU can "afford" to "contribute"(albeit only with stolen pics) you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
I'm simply the guy that shoots it all and then some,as you Crying Kchunts Whine Aloud,with your GoogleFu and Pretend,while "living" vicariously. Hint.
Fortunately for you gals,Imagination and Pretend are free,so even YOU can "afford" to "contribute"(albeit only with stolen pics) you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?
I'm late to this discussion, but I've shot and hunted with both cartridges and would give the edge to the 6.5 Creedmoor for accuracy and shootability. They're both very accurate cartridges, but the .308 recoils a little more and is thus slightly harder to shoot precisely. And of course the Creedmoor propels high BC bullets to reasonable velocity much more easily.
As far as efficacy for hunting, for animals up to deer size I prefer the Creedmoor, but for larger game I would prefer the .308 for its bigger bullets and greater energy. Clearly, shot placement and bullet performance are the most important factors in killing game effectively, but we're splitting hairs here.
I'm late to this discussion, but I've shot and hunted with both cartridges and would give the edge to the 6.5 Creedmoor for accuracy and shootability. They're both very accurate cartridges, but the .308 recoils a little more and is thus slightly harder to shoot precisely. And of course the Creedmoor propels high BC bullets to reasonable velocity much more easily.
As far as efficacy for hunting, for animals up to deer size I prefer the Creedmoor, but for larger game I would prefer the .308 for its bigger bullets and greater energy. Clearly, shot placement and bullet performance are the most important factors in killing game effectively, but we're splitting hairs here.
A breath of fresh air..... good common sense post and spot on
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
"Energy" is a contrived Blue Haired Cat Lady Notion. Impact velocity,wind drift and relative "shootability",matter more than a whole fhuqking BUNCH. Hint.
A Kreedly 147 will retain 1500fps impact well beyond the 1000yd line. It will make 1000ft lbs of "energy",well beyond the 800yd line. It is fhuqking SINISTER,when it comes to fending atmospherics and the melding in summation,simply kicks the fhuqk out of the 308,from any/all angles. Hint.
Imitation remains THE most Sincere form of Flattery and NOTHING is fhuqking funnier than Imaginary Pretend Ignore! Hint.
Brokedick Crying CLUELESS Kchunts,crack me the fhuqk up. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
If you are just new to this game and ain’t got a bunch of iron in the safe buy em both. BTW I thought the .308;was begat by the 300 savage?
1. If you live/ hunt near bears that will attack you. During the apocalypse you plan on scrounging for ammo on your Twinkie search. You are homophobic. You like only numbers in threes.
Buy the .308 first.
2. No bears, don’t care about others opinions. Can afford ammo. Likes to shoot,kids,wives etc like to shoot. Mostly deer hunting. BTW I thought in a round about way the creedmore was begat by the 300 savage?
Buy the creedmore first
3 If you are hesitant and not sure.
Consider the 300 savage
Last edited by Angus1895; 12/31/23.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
"Energy" is a contrived Blue Haired Cat Lady Notion. Impact velocity,wind drift and relative "shootability",matter more than a whole fhuqking BUNCH. Hint.
A Kreedly 147 will retain 1500fps impact well beyond the 1000yd line. It will make 1000ft lbs of "energy",well beyond the 800yd line. It is fhuqking SINISTER,when it comes to fending atmospherics and the melding in summation,simply kicks the fhuqk out of the 308,from any/all angles. Hint. No
Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............
TRUTH
Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
I have 2 Bergara Wilderness Ridge SP’s. One in 308 and the other in 6.5 CM. As of right now the 308 is more accurate. The 308’s best 3 shot group at 100 yards is .179 MOA shooting a Hammer HHT 154 gr. bullet. The 6.5 CM’s is .679 MOA at 100 shooting a Barnes 100 gr. TTSX. The 6.5 CM loads were actually made for my kids and they are reduced recoil and I know I can do better then that with a full power load. I just ordered 200 Hammer 80 gr. HHT’s to try out at full throttle for the 6.5 CM. This season I’ve killed 15 deer and 3 coyotes with the 308 and my oldest son has killed 3 deer with it. I have a custom built 6.5 CM that my son has killed 12 deer with during the 2 previous seasons with no issues and great results. For me it would really be hard to pick one over the other for killing deer sized game to be honest. With that being said my limited experience is with killing stuff and not punching holes in paper at far distances.
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