Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting You can't kill a deer around here with THAT!

I've decided to draw upon y'all's experience with whitetail to compile the official national database of bullet-proof deer herds. I don't know how many times I've heard "You can't kill deer around here with THAT!" From this database, I hope to go on to write a best-selling book, and maybe a website. I figure this is going to be my ticket to the big time. I can quit may day job and tour the country with my map and get invited on the TV shows and kill deer with T/C Encores.

What I need from y'all is your experiences with bullet-proof deer. Anecdotal evidence is just fine-- science doesn't have to enter into it. From what y'all give me, I'll start entering it into the database and from there, I'll begin by publishing a map.

Please make your submissions by reporting a state, county, and caliber, and from there you're free to include anything else.
As an example, I can tell you flat out that according to my years of monitoring Ohio deer forums, whitetail deer in Southeastern and Northeastern Ohio are now absolutely immune to 2.75" deer slugs, and .357 Magnum pistol ammunition. You need 3" magnums for the former and a .44 Mag for the latter.

Help me out: Is it Northern Texas or Southern Texas where calibers of .270 and below have ceased killing whitetail? At what point below the Mason Dixon line do you need to put away the 30-06 and get out the 300 Win Mag? When does the .338 become necessary? When do you need to add the extra 'S' to the WSM to keep the bullets from bouncing off?

If nothing else, I want to document the regions of the country where the 30-30 historically fails and the isolate pockets where deer have actually become vunerable to the 223 Remington. These two items alone will really make the project worthwhile. Maybe we can match these against nutrition, herd size, and other factors and get an idea why these two phenomena are happening. The other thing I want to investigate is why some deer are becoming immune to cast hard lead,and guilding metal, and are now only killable with the addition of polycarbonate plastic inserts on the ends of the bullets.

I don't really care if you believe what you've heard; I'll take hearsay, conjecture, and wild theory. The trick is to start documenting it. We can winnow out the chaff later.

Here in NY we used to be limited to shotguns for deer. The deer have become quite resistant to slugs. Years ago I shot a deer.. hit her perfectly( because that where I was aiming) yet I had no blood or hair and didn't recover her... proof that the 2.75 win foster slug can't hurt a 110lb doe.

Three years ago the state finally allowed rifles for deer. These deer that can withstand an 1 oz slug are easily killed with a 150g 3030 bullet. I suspect the deer will quickly build an immunity to underpowered rifles like the 30.30, thats why I have already ttransitioned to more powerful rounds.

Just making an observation...It seems like the 'borderline' deer cartridges, any of the centerfire .22's and the .243 win, to be sure, are mainly contested in areas where "actual tracking" may have to occur. Geography seems to dictate the 'effectiveness' of a given cartridge.
When you have areas where thickets/bottoms are so thick that even rabbits get lost...peanut rifles need not apply. IMO Bloodtrails ARE a good thing! Big ones. I'm sure those pop guns work great where deer can't run out of site in a week but around the thick stuff, game will be lost.

Lots of 223AI use here and I promise you this [bleep] is thicker than anything AR has.

Have only had one deer go more than 5 yards after being hit with a 223AI and it was a bloodtrail a blind man could have followed.

We don't seem to have much trouble around here with 243's and 30-30's. This is in East Central Arkansas. As some-one on this board once stated. "It don't matter what you are shooting, if you hit them around the edges, they will run off." miles

I don't think there is a centerfire rifle that I'd be afraid to shoot deer with.

I have buddies with the latest and greatest wumpimthumpim magnums and we track thier deer ALL the time and they poke fun at my teeny tiny 243, but mine are bang,flop, go pick them up put in truck. SHOT placement is the whole deal and they cant figure that out!

The thick stuff of which I speak is on the big pine company leases in south Arkansas. The undergrowth on our 4500 acre club/lease is amazing. Walking through it is a chore unto itself. Of course I agree that shot placement is key, even with that, they DO still run. No blood trail just exacerbates the problem. Not every hunter happens to be a crack shot with finely tuned equipment that just happens to practice regularly. Most I come across buy some bullets and go hunting with the "I shot it last year out the truck window rifle". I also agree that no caliber guarantees DRT. I have myself shot deer with little guns over the years and they were surely dead. I've also seen deer soak up those little pills and run into the next county, with good hits. If you limit their range to 175 yards or so, their OK. Out past that, they are left wanting. Been there done that. Point is, there are far better cartridges for big game, especially when being used by someone less than experienced. And I disagree, marginal hits ARE the difference between pop guns and solid deer cartridges.

Your question is much too general. Already your getting emotional responses.

One of these days the important factors are going to be identified.

Once that happens the current mantra will be forgotten.

Schopenhauer said it best.

All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
Arthur Schopenhauer

I wasn't trying to start a bunch of guff. Just making an observation based on many past threads. A good hunter could no doubt use a 22 MAG and be very successful most of the time. But a November hunter can truly benefit from a bigger/better penetrating bullet. You can't make up for crappy shooting for sure, but every thing you do to improve your odds is only fair to the game being pursued.
I swapped my son from a .243 to a .308 last year, it's very noticeable, the difference it made.
Kinda like a kid starting with a .410..there are better choices.

My kids have had excellent success with the 250-3000 and 100 gr pills at 2650. that's about the minimum for me. still, I have total confidence in my 220 swift (but I have not actually killed anyting with it yet).

I think this thread has changed directions, But here goes. I was told that you couldn't kill deer with a 308 because the bullets just fell out of the end of the barrel, and a 300 h&h was the best deer caliber because all you have to do is point it in the general direction. I heard these stories from other young hunters when I was in middle school.

Oh, and the 30-30 was too slow to catch a deer.

Look at a map of Texas. East of the Brazos River it seems that the 223, 243, 6M?M work quite well.
West of the Brazos you have to step up at least two calibers or so I have been told.

Now then Oklahoma is different. You can kill a deer with a 106 RR HEAT round. I know you can because I did at 900 yards on the Ft Sill range in 1961. In fact I may have killed two. There was an extra leg that we never could account for.

That is the extent of my Oklahoma hunting.

BCR

I've seen just about anything kill deer but, how about an interesting side bar for your first article?
Texas bob cats are tougher than bears because you need something bigger than a 300 mag to kill em. I saw a large bob cat hit just behind the shoulder at about 15 yards with a 180gr from a 300 mag. He flipped three feet in the air, landed on his feet and ran off. No blood, hair or anything else could be found and cat never was found.
I know some will scoff and say it was a clean miss or that the bullet never expanded at that range/velocity, etc. etc. But local legend now "proves" that our bob cats can take more punishment than bears and you'd better have at least a 375H&H!

I dunno. South TX buck, 225 pounds dressed... 300 wtby, 180 partitions, about 125ish yards. Neck shot was all I had. Neck was 26-27 inch girth. Centered neck, bullet blew up and was lodged against spinal column on this side of deer. Never would have died as I missed the arteries/veins. But was paralyzed so I could shoot him again.

I still don't hesistate to use small rounds though.... small 6mm accounted for all my meat last fall(except one shot with a 50 beowulf and one shot with a 50 bmg) and did just fine with 85 tsx in south TX.....

Take your pick, generally they say shot placement is it. And it is, I just expected a pass through with that combo.

Jeff

Thanks! This is a great start. Keep it coming.

Has anyone heard a good explanation on why deer get immune to cartridges? Is it the repeated exposure of a particular round? Near misses? What?

I think the other 3 may have ended up here, Boggy.

Never did find the rest. Might try someone in Missouri/Illinois/Kentucky.

It's a SAAMI Conspiracy, at least that's the theory here!!!

Minimum needed around here in NC seems to be a 35 Whelen with 200 plus grains of North fork bullets, otherwise they just shank it off and walk away.... or so I hear.