Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Bore Scope Eye Opener

Got my first look at a rifle bore through a bore scope today. Wow. The things you see. Only wish I could have gotten some before and after photos. Have been running in a circle with a 1950’s 722 in 257Roberts bought recently. A good friend who puts a lot of effort in to the benchrest side of shooting invited me to his shop to investigate. Well that barrel was coppered heavy, and has a bit of pitting out near the muzzle.
I had given what I thought was a good effort on it with Montana extreme at my place last month. Much to the dismay of others living in the area above my gun cave. Overnight soaks for three cycles.
So in steps we got after it with some various products. This included Bore Tech eliminator, JB paste, Kroil and a good amount of patches. (Plus a nice bore guide, stock cover and other rods/jags etc). When we called a truce the inner appearance was amazingly different.
I don’t know how it’s going to shoot and won’t see a range for a good bit due to work, but will report on that when the day comes.
Just really blown away by how much fowling was in that barrel and the efforts it took to get close to clean. I’m sure it’s a candidate for DBC and will look into that this spring as time allows.
For those of you with a scope it must be entertaining seeing the look of friends when you show them what they are missing.

Had a Kimber in 308 that would never shoot to it's potential. Tried every thing from cleaning to Tubbs abrasive bullets with very little improvement. When I got a Teslong the reason was revealed. It was horribly pitted from one end to the other. Wish I could have seen inside from the start. A bore scope would have saved a lot of time and money. Good luck with your Roberts.

Have owned a bore-scope for over 20 years. Have seen bore "horribly pitted from one end to the other" that shot pretty well a number of times.

Yes, bore-scopes are very useful--but what they show does NOT always indicate how well the rifle will shoot. Plus, there are ways to "help" such pitted bores.

Have generally found that a bore-scope's biggest virtue is revealing how various cleaning products work--but whether even that makes a major difference is another question....

Amazon.com/Teslong-Borescope
Well spent $139

Bore scopes and factory rifles dont belong together. Also would not subject a friend to the anguish of seeing what the bore actually looks like.

They are cheaper than that on their website and military/vets get a 25% discount.

I've seen this mentioned quite a few times, and its interesting in how hung up people get on "how does the bore look?" questions. Now, I can understand if its an old wartime mil surp rifle, where corrosive primers/lack of cleaning can destroy a barrel. Personally, I'm only concerned with how it shoots. Doesn't mean a bore scope can't be useful, though.

No, it doesn't--which is why I spent $800 around 20 years ago to buy my "old-fashioned" Gradient Lens Hawkeye scope. Learned a lot from it--and also bought and thoroughly tested a Teslong a couple years ago.

The Teslong worked well, but did not provide anything close to the detail of the Hawkeye. Which is why I eventually sold the Teslong, though it also has some advantages over Hawkeye, such as being able to take photos of the bore easily, and having a flexible tube, which helps considerably when looking at, say, the chamber/throat area of a lever-action. Published an article on all this not long ago.

But my main point is that a bore-scope, of any type, cannot predict how well a particular barrel will shoot--which is what many folks still apparently believe.

I have a Savage 99 in 303 Savage (1924 vintage) that was the very first rifle my father ever purchased. He bought it used and the stock had been redone when he bought it. It always shoots well with its open sights. I attempted to clean it when it was given to me. It took a lot of time. I decided to look at the barrel with my borescope. It is as rough as a 80 year Florida women who loves the sun. It is bad...but it still shoots accurately. I have a life time supply of ammunition plus brass and dies. I do not even plan to "help" the pitting as it shoots just fine.

I say this to back up what JB wrote. If you looked at this gun you would think it is trashed but it still has plenty of life (and deer) left in it.

Thanks for the experience guys.
When I first got this rifle it shot a few targets “OK” with one or two of the bullets on hand.
But that accuracy and precision generally went away.
I was beginning to consider things like the scope/bedding/crown/last case rebarrel.
Im glad my friend owns his teslong. Now I can return to the range and without having changed a lot of variables get a baseline to work from.
If it goes back to “reasonable” with a clean barrel then its a solid hunting rifle(that likes cleaning).
If it doesn’t then its a project rifle.
My other center fire rifles shoot pretty well without a lot of scrubbing. Thats part of why they are keepers.
In my eye the borescope is a tool to aid in choices where a rifle may be wavering on project rifle status.

Bran new 17 pound bench gun Hawk Hill barrel.
6.5 GT.


28 Nosler.
With less rounds than I care to mention.



dave

Dave. That’s impressive photography. I was glad to see the throat in mine was not shot out. But the contrast to a modern target barrel like yours to 1950’s Remington is “eye opening”.
I see the bore scope and can understand how it could lead a rifle owner down some unproductive rabbit holes. But it just steered me in a path of discovery that won’t include bedding or a scope change just yet.
But DBC might move up the priority list after doing some baseline testing on the 100 yd range

The other really good use of a bore-scope is using "lapping" bullets to smooth out chamber throats like the one in dave7mm's second photo: You want to just shoot enough of 'em to lose the "gator skin," which generally extends a barrel's accuracy life considerably.



Might also mention that throat erosion doesn't always affect accuracy. Here's a photo of the throat of my Ultra Light Arms Model 24 .30-06, which I acquired in 1997. This is after around 1000 rounds, and the Douglas barrel still groups as well as it did when new with handloads it "likes", and it likes a lot of 'em--around 1/2" for 3-shot groups at 100 yards.

Just like low ES and SD on a chrono do not nearly guarantee you have found the holy grail load.

How much better does it shoot now with hours of scrubbing time invested?

Hi Bob .
That's just a rigid Teslong-Borescope .
Wifi to my phone.
That's it. Nothing special or fancy.
Handy as all get out.
The 6.5 GT shot very well .
First match I ran Staball. Did ok. Farther testing and I switched to H4895 and won the very next match.
Came in second overall in the two day championship.
I'm very happy with the thing.
JB is right.
The best use of a bore scope is looking to see if your cleaning routine is getting it done.
I've found that things can sneak up on you .
The biggest killer of accuracy I see is built up black chit.
If it gets ahead of you. Chemical cleaners won't touch it.
That leads to abrasives.
Thorough flush thorough clean is what I use.
When things get out of hand I dig out the witches Brew.
dave

JB
First year for the big 28 Nosler.
Turns out blasting 84.5g of N570 down a 7mm hole does bad things.
Figure a 175g Accubond at 3200.
Absolute hammers the deer. Very impressive.
Kinda a shame abusing a nice Bartlien 5R this way.


dave

My 6.5 Nosler shows some bore erosion thru the Hawkeye after less than 500 rounds. I’m guessing a 1,000+ barrel life. Accuracy hasn’t changed, still a sub MOA Shilen barrel.

And I’ve used N-570, which isn’t easy on barrels. Now that I’ve tried many combos seeing what it’ll do, it isn’t shot as much, just an occasional hunting trip. Should last as long as I do.

DF

Dave,

Yep, it's interesting!

Believe the quickest throat erosion I've seen was with a 26 Nosler. It looked similar after not too many rounds--but kept shooting well for hundreds of rounds.

But have also seen definite--though slight--signs of erosion in .223 Remingtons after maybe 250 rounds, though it didn't affect groups. My favorite example is the Remington 700 Varmint with a laminated stock I bought a little over 20 years ago, and when relatively new (say the first 500 rounds) would put 5 rounds into 1/4" at 100 yards, using 50-grain Ballistic Tips sorted with a Juenke machine.

However, after around 2500 rounds (often shot through a very hot barel) groups started opening up--which is when I saw the gator-skin moving around three inches in front of the chamber. So I fired enough lapping bullets to smooth it out, and groups shrank considerably. (Will also note that the late Chub Eastman, long-time marketing guy for Leupold and then Nosler, and life-long rifle loony, used a custom .223 for most of his prairie dog shooting for years, and only rebarreled it when it quit shooting minute-of-dog at 300+ yards. He had the barrel sectioned length-wise, and the rifling was basically gone for the first foot in front of the chamber...)

My Teslong was the flexible one, because I wanted to see what was happening in barrels of rifles where the scope couldn't be inserted from the chamber end--such as my my Marlin 1893 .32-40. The photos weren't as clear as yours, but they were good enough to tell what was happening. After using it for a year or so, sold it to a local friend who was always ask to come over and have me scope his barrels. I still had the Hawkeye, which does not have the camera attachment (and costs around $1600 these days), but provides a noticeably sharper and brighter view than the Teslongs--partly because Gradient Lens allowed me to swap my original model for their latest upgrade a few years ago. But if starting all over again would buy a Teslong.

Will also note that the very best bore-scope images I've seen were when visiting Dan Lilja's barrel factory, as I recall shortly after buying the Hawkeye. Dan had a state-of-the-art video scope, which showed the image on a 2-foot TV-type screen. But Dan has always been very particular about his barrels....

Yep, a visual tells things, but not always how a barrel will shoot. A friend won either a yardage or the agg at a Kelbly's Super Shoot one year with a barrel deemed toast when scoping it.