Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire 25/06

I'm with Dillonbuck:

"If I was building one, from scratch with no dies, or brass or loads…. I’d AI and fast twist it. Otherwise, I'd let it go."

If you already have dies, enjoy what you have and appreciate spending that extra $150-200 on powder, primers and bullets as you happily go forth and slay beasts. The improvement in the 25-06 AI compared to the factory chambering (at the same pressure level) is minimal, according to P O himself, and making it more overbore limits your powder selection. The reference I found, besides P O A, says a 100g load can go 8.4% faster in the AI version; that puts it 10th on the scale, behind the old tapered cartridges (25-35 WCF, 30-40 Krag, 250 Savage, 6.5 X 55 Swede, 30-30,7 X 57, 30 H & H, etc.). Much the same increase in velocity can be obtained by using longer barrels or boosting the pressure to unknown/unsafe levels, which is much more difficult to measure than velocity for us amateurs in the field.

That said, I did build a 280 AI from parts and I don't regret it, but it still isn't a 7mmRM when the chronograph whispers to my wallet. And a 257 Bob AI from 1970, before we really knew that the 25-06 was gonna fly.

If it were me:

1. If the goal were "fast and long" as stated by the OP, I wouldn't build a .25 of any flavor. But if it is a from-scratch build, I'd go AI. No reason not to.

2. If we're talking a pre-existing rifle, I'd leave it alone and put the money you save toward a 6.5 Creed or even a .243 shooting good bullets.

But, admittedly, I'm no expert; I'm just saying what I'd do.

Best of luck in your decision!

Don't tell all of the deer my uncle has killed under 50 yards since 1978 in the timber they were killed by something that supposedly doesn't work in the brush.

Anything... 06... is a simple and basic round.

Couple of years ago... GreenTop was selling 25-06 at $5 a box just to get ride of it. Pallets of it.

Pure stupidity...

It is a fine round.

Yes, I hope Mule Deer does chime in on this subject. I always learn something new (history, handloading, ballistics, bullet performance, etc...) whenever he lends his knowledge and experience on such matters. Kind of like listening to or reading through a PhD dissertation on the 25-06 Remington/25 Niedner/25 Whelen!

Guys like Mr. Adolph Otto "AO" Niedner, COL Townsend Whelen, Mr. Arthur Savage (250-3000), Mr. Ned Roberts (257 Roberts), and Mr. Roy Weatherby (257 Weatherby Magnum), et. al. was the quarter bore cartridges developers/loonies back in the day. Cool stuff!

Btw, some of you gentlemen will remember Mr. Bob Milek championing the 25-06 Remington in some of his outdoor/gun magazine writings throughout the 1970s and 1980s.

i got this from an administrator from another site.

" The "bigger issue" in the pressure discussion is what was actually being tested, and a previous post touches on the other issue; What is max charges.

1 - For a period of time, Copper Crushers were reported in PSI, rather than CUP(copper units of pressure). Then we moved on to piezo transducers, and strain guages for what is known to the world as PSI. For a somewhat large amount of time after the system change, the military was listing "PSI" but were actually measuring CUP. The system change happened after the major players in SAAMI(Federal, Remington, etc) did some very carefully controlled tests. What they found was that Copper Crushers are very inaccurate when used over @ 45,000 psi. Inaccurate to the tune of 15-20,000 psi swings of actual pressure! I know Denton has done some correlation between CUP and PSI, but the inaccurate reporting will limit you to correlation only. So in the 270 as an example, what you *thought* was a safe pressure, very well may have been quite hot. Such as a test proved when conducted on one of Ackley's loads in his rifle.

2 - Max load discrepency. This is another old wives tales from folks who don't fully understand what Canister-grade powder is, or what the reloading world is. Canister grade powder is blended to a range of nominal specs. However MOST of the brands that you know of, don't even list what those specs are; and they don't actually build the powder anyhow. So there is a VERY good reason why everyone selling powder cautions you to "Drop loads 10%, when switching lots". Powder isn't a fixed, never changing animal, so A load in grains will never produce exactly identical results; because the powder is different. In the extruded world, powder has it's burning rate controlled by Geometry, and so is loaded by volume to account for said lot variations. Grains don't account for this, which will change case fill volume and further aggrevate burning rate differences. Another reason why they tell you to drop your charges between lots.

Unless you have a Pressure Trace or similar accurate strain system, the only reasonable close way for the average joe to accurately measure pressure, is against the velocity. People CONSTANTLY forget/don't know/ignore this. They use the same charge in grains across different lots of powder, and then write that they have a "fast barrel" because the velocity is higher. There certainly CAN be fast barrels, but 98% of the time it is because they are simply over-pressure. Most good data is fired in a SAAMI minimum spec components, which will be more efficient and produce higher velocities, than a mass produced rifle."


i used a 22-250AI in a 27" barrel several years ago. i loaded 75gr Amax and different powder trying to get 150 - 200fps faster. the max i could do is 110fps faster. 50-70fps faster is average. i sold it and the Ackley really was disappointed. the only thing good about it was the AI brass, you never needed to trim it after i fireformed it.

The original cases had a bit of body taper and less shoulder angle for reasons. Feeding and reliability. AI's grow less and need less timing so that's an advantage. I also think every case should be fired in its chamber once before serious loading begins anyways.

That said as I mess around with my 280 ai's I often miss the perfect feeding and one more in the mag of my old custom KS 280. Should have kept that rifle. If it had been a bit faster twist it would have been close to perfect for me. One day I'll build my perfect rifle and it will likely be a 700LA clone in plain 280 with an 8 twist 22" shorter at about .600" at the muzzle. Maybe a brux #2.

Bb

I just don’t see a 25/06 as a winning proposition currently. It’s cool for sure though

If you handload or reload yes to AI if you don't it's a moot point. A 25-06AI is not to far off a 257WBY, I get over 4000 fps with 87 Vmax's and 4200 FPS with 70 Blitz Kings from a 12 twist 30" barrel.

Had myself the same conundrum about 5 years ago, but I didn't own a 25-06 yet either. Wanted a 1/4 bore, so I bought a 257 wby MKV and was finished with that.

I have 30-06 AI, 7MM-08 AI, 280 AI and a 6.5x55 AI, never once have I had a feeding issue.

But then I also have a 25 WSSM, that many say has feeding issues, which I have never experienced

I wouldn’t, fine the way it is. I have a 6.5mm-06, like hell out of it.

If it's a 06 case you sould AI it, my stable 22-06AI 6-06AI 25-06AI 30-06AI

After many many years of saving up parts....I had a 6mmRem improved built.

They are interesting. Plain and simple.

Barrel length?

It's just under 27.

Wowsers.

If I had to do it again...I would use a med sporter Lilja barrel.


As it happens my best friend give me a heavy hart blank so that's what I used.

Lucky I am a great big sonofabitch and can handle about anything.

Was there a reason you didn't chop it back?

Should get impressive velocities though. Hell of a coyote rig with a 70 grain bullet at max speed.

Upon reading through the whole thread so far, one might suggest the OP drop the idea and get someone to make him a necked down .26 Nosler rig..................



in the interest of Loonying on.