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There were a few others on the kill list

Oh, so now you’re in favor of the Doctrine of Nullification. Would that the northern states had been in your camp in the 1830s and the Civil War may have been avoided.

But here is what I understand and you don’t. Slaves were by the law and by the Constitution agreed upon by all parties, just that, property. Your morality doesn’t enter into the law. You don’t get to decide for yourself what laws you will enforce and what ones you won’t because morality is subjective. The Constitution was a contract, agreed to and relied upon by the states. And your side decided it no longer liked the terms. Sp instead of agreeing to dissolve the contract and let the parties depart, you decided to change the terms by force of arms and force the other side to stay and abide by the new terms against its will.

And if we are going to draw analogies, yes, let’s use illegal immigration, but instead of your bullschit, let’s use reality. The reality is that the federal government is refusing to enforce the constitution and protect states against invasion, just like it refused to uphold property rights back then. And just like back then, certain states style themselves as sanctuaries and encourage and actively engage in the subversion of the lawto the detriment of those states wishing to see immigration laws enforced. The sanctuary states decry other states as mean spirited and racist and everything but Christian JUST LIKE THEY DID THEN.

You know when Southerners finally had enough and decided to leave back then, you Yankees should have been happy about it. With the South gone, your states would have been slave free and you would have had no obligation to enforce or ignore regarding fugitive slaves.

Lincum would’ve been fuqkd if Maryland left

In 1865 the Congress passed the 13th amendment outlawing slavery. Lincoln met with Alexander Stephens, the VP of the Confederacy, and suggested the South come back into the union befause it toolk 3/4 of the states to ratify trhe amendment.

Grant did call in sick that night, but the real reason was that his wife thought Mary Todd Lincoln was a lunatic, which isn't far from the truth. Mrs. Grant could not stand to be in the company of Mrs. Lincoln.

And Mr. Lincoln did take many liberties with the Constitution, suspending Habeus Corpus, crushing the draft rebellion in NYC and the Emancipation Proclamation amongst other constitutional indiscretions. Where does it say in the Constitution that the President of the United States can issue "Proclamations", that then become the immediate law of the land? King Abe?

Was it morally justified? Of course. Was it a direct violation of the Constitution? Yes. Lincoln had no constitutional authority to free the slaves with the stroke of a pen. He was guilty of defending the constitution and interpreting the constitution as it suited his agenda. History has given him a pass because the outcome suited history and the victors.

I’ve read there were back n forth conversations

The question wasn't about the morality of slavery. It was about whether one (or more) states could ignore the constitution, to the detriment of other states. If it were solely about slavery, the abolitionists should have gladly let the immoral southerners leave.

(Unfortunately, the side that didn't care what the constitution said won, and we now have the all powerful federal govt.)

Delaware wuz a slave state

This is pretty much all that needs to be said.




P

Yes

Those gall darned native Americans should just get over it!

Them Indians lost....time to move on!


Oh......nevermind.

Oh, and about being called a Yankee…I get a kick out of it.

Like being called a cracker. Hilarious.




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What in the heck is the “problem of succession”?

All very interesting. Until you remember Article VI Sec II of the Constitution, which is often referred to as the Supremacy Clause which states: when State law and Federal Law come into conflict, Federal Law prevails. So the Union viewed the Constitution as a binding contract, which Art.VI made it. The Confederate States viewed it as a "gentleman's agreement" that could be dissolved when one part felt wronged by the other. The rub to the Southern argument was that Art.VI was in the Constitution when their representatives signed it or when they were admitted to the Union. So clearly the South was in the wrong for secession and the firing upon Fort Sumpter. Regardless of what your unreconstructed Great Great Great Grand Pappy says.

Sir, we’re just having a discussion amongst friends here, I hope your blood pressure stays reasonable.

I understand the “property” ruling. I also understand some states decided not to go along with it because they didn’t wish to partake or abet human slavery. There was a war over this great national sin. Slavery was ended. That’s a good thing.

Our federal power’s theory goes from one end of the spectrum to other in the last several elections. Sanctuary cities during the Trump administration seemed pretty confederate-y to me.

Maybe read Article 6 again and see if your interpretation that "the south was wrong" might be itself wrong. Of course I realize that military victory vindicates the north even if they were wrong legally. That's just the way it is.

Yeah, it was a pretty good show.

"But you fought all the way Johney Reb,"

Yes we did wabi

There were plenty of good guys and bad guys on both sides of the Mason Dixon Line then and not much has changed since then.

A lot of people on both sides died in that war that didn't need to. They had no stake or nothing to gain by the outcome but wound up dead anyhow. A terrible outcome for them and their families. The war started over the issue of slavery. The boys that fought and died on both sides mostly didn't give a damn about slavery one way or the other. They were conscripted, baited by a sense of adventure or patriotism or in the Souths case, invaded by a foreign army. I feel sorry for the boys and the families and many of those stories have been passed down through the generations and are still open wounds till this day.

A terrible chapter of American history.