Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire John Wilkes Booth

Let me explain it to you in crayon. Because you still don’t understand it. It is not about ancestors.

I proposed a hypothetical about Biden provoking a fight on the border and calling in troops only to have state governments reject that call as unconstitutional and exceeding the authority of the president. Civil war results.

This is exactly analogous to what happened in 1861, only in 1861 the power of the president in such a situation was probably even less defined and agreed upon constitutionally than it is now.

When you said, you would support it, I opined that you must be a white supremacist because that is the only reason you would support states rights and constitutional limitations. That is EXACTLY what people do when talking about the South. They discount all the constitutional objections and go “but slavery” and opine that only reason the South did what it did was solely to preserve slavery.


When you obtusely failed to see the point, I continued the joke culminating in comparing Joe Biden and Lincoln to Jesus (which absolutely happened in the North after his assassination) and Joe Biden to Lincoln. All of which is done. Guys in this very thread forgive Lincoln of all his violations of the constitution because “muh slavery” and few others, like Tarquin, twist themselves and logic into pretzels telling us how Lincoln communed with the ghosts of Aristotle and the Founders to discover the “true” constitution that almost no one else before had seen and was ignored by all those sons and grandsons of the Founders who fought for the South.

I kelt thinking you would eventually catch on, but no you didn’t and you haven’t yet and are still missing the point. Absurd? Yes, of course. But no more absurd than what actually happened. When the son of a former US president surrendered his men to union forces at the end of the war, he got a lecture from a Union officer that he would now be taught what it was to be a “true American”. Said union officer saw absolutely no irony in the fact that he was a very recent German immigrant who could barely speak broken and heavily accented English lecturing the son of a president on being American.

As they say, history doesn’t repeat, but it sure does rhyme a lot.

JFC

Amen

Honestly, I don’t need some guy who obviously idolizes Howard Stern to tell me about Lincoln!😀
I thought Booth’s derringer was a .36 caliber.
That brings up another question. Where is it?
I’m thinking private collection somewhere, but I honestly can’t remember for certain.
Reon

Fords theatre

Immigration played a critical role in the Civil War too. Without all the proto-communist Germans kicked out of Europe after 1848, the North would have lost Missouri and control of the Mississippi River at the start. Then they were signing up Irish immigrants in huge numbers right off the boats.

Hoards of foreigners with no allegiance to Americans or the Constitution were used to suppress dissent of a native population that resisted the power of a despotic federal government.

Very few people choose to remember that Lincoln was in favor of shipping all the blacks back to Africa. That little tidbit of history has been buried way down deep by the textbook writers and others who use the Orwellian tactic of teaching revisionist history to every new generation of kids. When Liberia was created by well-meaning but naive American politicians, those "immigrants" set up a mirror image of the society they had left, and subjugated the native population. The only difference was that the new overlords had as much melanin in their skin as those they enslaved.

I understand the point just fine now. You and I are obviously in agreement! I have made my opinion of Lincoln known on this thread and many others.
But I do take a little insult for being used as an example. Sorry, that’s just my reaction to a lot of people on the fire. I’ve learned over the years to be a little defensive, because you really can’t swing a dead cat around here without hitting an idiot!😀
You aren’t an idiot, but you gotta admit you did use their tactics!😀
I have stated that slavery was the main factor in secession. That is undeniable!
But I don’t hold to the theory that secession had to lead to civil war.
In 1861, very few people were ever more than 30 miles from their homes.
In that context, I’d have most definitely signed up in a Pennsylvania unit of volunteers. People were all over enlistment early on. Folks were actually turned away disappointed as regiments filled up before they could get in.
But armed now with hindsight, I can clearly see that it was the Lincoln government forcing a war that most folks really had no real reason to pursue! That said, most of us here in the north really should have fought for the confederacy.
I’m trying to recall the Tennessee Governor’s response to Lincoln’s all for militia.
“Tennessee will not provide a single troop for suppression of Southern states. But we will supply 100,000 in defense of their right to rule themselves “! (Paraphrased)
Southerners didn’t own slaves, northerners couldn’t have cared less about slavery. Lotta folks walked off from the army when slavery was made an issue. It came about purely because emancipation was a carrot and stick approach to solving a war which should have never happened!
I gotta admit, civil war history is a passion of mine, and I do honestly enjoy these discussions. Obviously I’m not alone!😀
There’s always gonna be people who will bitch about “another thread” that doesn’t interest them. Like I said, I think some people are just compelled to bitch.
It is a cold hard fact of life that some people can’t be happy unless they’re making somebody else miserable!🤬
Reon

No. Killing Lincoln was a huge blow against the south.
With him gone, the black republicans , led by Stanton and others, were able to force a bitter and vindictive “reconstruction” on the confederate states. They were already broke. Most state economies were in shambles.
Lincoln understood this. (I don’t like praising him but he could see this fact)
Folks like Stanton, Morton and others caused an already bloody expensive war to become even more bitter and costly. Remember what I said about people not being happy unless?
Reon

I wonder what Lincoln would have done differently

Hahaha!

You two need to take your meds.

It's very interesting. I had never thought of that until Rainshot brought it up.

I think Lincoln if anything, would have been even more Machiavellian and used the freed blacks against his political enemies more than they were. Nothing suggests in his conduct of the war that he would scruple to use a weapon he had in his arsenal. He would have done as bad or worse while using honeyed words and speaking about “reconciliation”.

Lincoln ran for office for the time at the age of 21. From 1834 until his death he was out of state or federal office for a period of slightly less than five years. He was like all career politicians, a lying sack of schit. They were no different then than they are now.

Goddam we agree on somethin 🤣🤣

Penn, not too unlike NY and even CA, when you get away from the crazies in the urban centers, you find sane, good people. Just not enough to vote the state.

DF

How did Lincoln "force war" when the South fired the first shot at Fort Sumpter? The sad fact is Lincoln tried to compromise to no avail. It was a sad deal all the way around and Lincoln was in a terrible spot. I don't think anyone in this debate, if you can call it that, is an idiot. I think it is still a heated argument that has people on the defensive. The same thing happened in 1860. People held allegiance to their own state's convictions whether they agreed with the position or not. People took up arms out of loyalty. Lee stated he did. The war turned brother against brother, neighbor against neighbor. We lost a generation of brave men young and old. I do not hold grudge on anyone and do not consider people living in any part of the country as different or enemies. People are people wherever you go. We are all Americans except perhaps democrats. This thread has perhaps taken an ominous turn because of the bitterness. We all have opinions about Booth. Some consider him a hero. Some consider him a terribly misguided man. The fact is the South did not benefit from his actions. Johnson was not a generous man in Reconstruction. The South suffered needlessly. Nathan Bedford Forest formed the KKK to be something altogether different than it turned out to be and he distanced himself from it. The South's defeat did not end the bitterness and it has taken many decades for America to contend with the aftermath. Today we face a different challenge as Americans that promises to tear the nation apart. We have been invaded by malevolent people invited by malevolent people that pulled off the greatest Coup in the history of America. We could very well loose this great nation and all end up surfs if we cannot put our differences aside and come together as Americans.

What/who comprised “the South” when the first shot was fired?

👏👏👏👏👏👏

I've read most of this thread but not all of it...the Civil War was not about ending slavery...just like WW2 was not about freeing the Jews.

Lincoln stated earlier...“My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the union without freeing any slaves I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.”

The Civil War started 12 April 1861.

The Emancipation Proclamation was promulgated 1 Jan 1863, was an executive order that eliminated slavery in states that were in rebellion....but did not address slavery in States still in the Union.

If the Civil War was about ending slavery then Lincoln would've issued the Emancipation Proclamation in 1861...and would've made some provision for all states. It was an executive order, he can write it like he wants to.

At the end of the day...Lincoln preserved the Union and reunited it. Heroes and good leaders died on both sides. After the war's resolution, they were pretty much respected via memorials, road names etc...until recently. JWB did nothing to help any American through his actions regardless of their recent color of uniform.

This is only my opinion...so take it for what it's worth.

-John

This bears repeating. Most folk don’t know the EP allowed slavery in Union states.




P