Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Will Leupold survive ?

Fclass is a pure gear show. Stick those kooks in minus 20 and a foot of snow and they wouldn’t be able to load their gun let alone kill an animal. I’m kidding, a lil bit…

Not only was there NOT 1 Leupold in the top 15 shooters at the 2023 Nationals, but there is NOT 1 Leupold used in either F-TR (60 shooters) or F-Open (90 shooters) TOTAL!!!

NO ONE was using a Leupold at the 2023 F-Class National Long Range Event.

What a shocker.

Just a Lil Bit.

PRS and NRL require durability and perfect tracking.

F Class allows spotters so a perfect tracking is of less importance.

Which competition is closer to real world hunting and why is it PRS/NRL?

What optic dominates PRS/NRL and why is it Leuopld?

What optic dominates hunting and why is it Leupold?

Thanks for playing all you LDS Losers.

I notice you can't hardly pry most shooters off the bench at my local range and if you do they can't hit a fuggin mini van from 100 yards without they flop down and use a bi pod. Those little groups from the bench/bipod are enchanting I guess but they'll never become good all around marksmen if that's all they do and that will cost them game out in these woods.

Then Please explain how mid to long range benchrest competition which measures groups to the ten- 1000th of an inch, Leupold is no longer a scope of choice? At the 2023 600 yard Benchrest Nationals, there was not 1 Leupold used in over 100 shooters.

Scope Tracking Test Results 2020

Lowlight
Oct 30, 2020 at 5:21 PM
Updated on Sep 22, 2023 at 6:48 PM
In the Field Scope Tracking Test

Sniper’s Hide Target USA Scope Testing Fixture
As many shooters have read in the Sniper’s Hide Forum, or have heard on the Everyday Sniper Podcast, during our precision rifle classes we removed and test scopes for tracking. The genesis behind this was twofold, first, we used to only accomplish this in our PR 2 class, and second, it solves a rifle set up problems we often observe. Today we do it in all our basic Marc & Frank PR Classes.

When we dope a rifle at distance the data needed to hit the target is that value. In other words, if you dial 8.5 Mils to hit a target, that is all you need, unless the environmental conditions changed enough. Under these same conditions, 8.5 is my answer. If you are looking to predict a solution in software, you want to give the software all the variables that may influence the accuracy of the prediction. So, if your scope tracks at 98% of actual, you want to tell the software to correct for the variation. Instead of reading .1 Mils it would be .098. That is why we tall target test, it is one of the variables. This also gives you a baseline for that particular optic. If something is amiss down the road, you now have a model to use where you repeat it and attempt to identify the problem.


The more we started to remove scopes from students’ rifles the more variations we began to see. These included scopes that were improperly mounted in the rings and levels that were not in the correct agreement with the reticle. Since the Target is level, as is the fixture, we can test both tracking and look at the plumb of the reticle. To relate this to those reading this, we see about 1/3 of scopes in a 12 -16 Person Class is not level and about another 3rd which are not correctly aligned to the bubble level or the level has been knocked off.


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Scope Tracking Test Results 2020

Lowlight
Oct 30, 2020 at 5:21 PM
Updated on Sep 22, 2023 at 6:48 PM
In the Field Scope Tracking Test

Sniper’s Hide Target USA Scope Testing Fixture
As many shooters have read in the Sniper’s Hide Forum, or have heard on the Everyday Sniper Podcast, during our precision rifle classes we removed and test scopes for tracking. The genesis behind this was twofold, first, we used to only accomplish this in our PR 2 class, and second, it solves a rifle set up problems we often observe. Today we do it in all our basic Marc & Frank PR Classes.

When we dope a rifle at distance the data needed to hit the target is that value. In other words, if you dial 8.5 Mils to hit a target, that is all you need, unless the environmental conditions changed enough. Under these same conditions, 8.5 is my answer. If you are looking to predict a solution in software, you want to give the software all the variables that may influence the accuracy of the prediction. So, if your scope tracks at 98% of actual, you want to tell the software to correct for the variation. Instead of reading .1 Mils it would be .098. That is why we tall target test, it is one of the variables. This also gives you a baseline for that particular optic. If something is amiss down the road, you now have a model to use where you repeat it and attempt to identify the problem.


The more we started to remove scopes from students’ rifles the more variations we began to see. These included scopes that were improperly mounted in the rings and levels that were not in the correct agreement with the reticle. Since the Target is level, as is the fixture, we can test both tracking and look at the plumb of the reticle. To relate this to those reading this, we see about 1/3 of scopes in a 12 -16 Person Class is not level and about another 3rd which are not correctly aligned to the bubble level or the level has been knocked off.



Pulling a scope gives us more than one training opportunity during basic class. We can point out the issues above, also we can demonstrate parallax using their optic and after testing is completed, we can help with rifle set up. The line goes from Marc testing all the Optics to Me assisting the student with set up, mounting and initial rezeroing. Each step is controlled, each task is done by the same people. If we do see an error, we put several eyes on it and come to an agreement as to what we are looking at. Many of these variations are minor, top or bottom of the reference, or minor gaps between the reticle and target.

We conduct our Test at 100 yards, mainly because that is universal for the ranges we use. But also, because we are shooting alongside the testing, so setting everything up at 100 is easy. With most of the modern scopes we use, seeing is not an issue, but it can be.

Occasionally you will still see a Leopold show up in the BR game.
It happens .
Weather in short range or long range they still do show up.
But because of their inferior erector system.
Most of the leopolds you see either have the Cecil Tucker conversion. Or have their reticles Frozen and are in an adjustable amount.
dave

As to the original question - they'll absolutely survive. Even if things get bad for them and they're bought by PE - the name will survive like Weaver does/did under Vista Outdoors or Redfield sold to Academy. Leupold will survive in some fashion. Not saying they ARE a M&A target or need PE money - just that if they would, they'd find it.

Absolutely. The Leupold name carries a lot of weight and the majority of their customers are well served by their products.

Good shootin' -Al

Yes they will survive. They are still thought of as a quality optic by hunters, many of who aren't on the internet everyday. Most hunters
Arent shooters. They run 3 shots down the tube to check zero a day before hunting season. They adjust if necessary and go hunting.
They might shoot few times at game over their season then the wipe their rifle off and put it the closet until the next season.

The question should be "if the rifle sat in the case/safe all year and was sighted in the year before, why was adjustment necessary?"

One thing that gets lost in these discussions is the size of the target. For example, in PRS the target sizes are from 1-3 MOA. Just because you can adjust the w/e and hit the target, that isn't proof of perfect tracking. It's proof of adequate tracking for the game being played. And that's exactly how it should be. Scopes for PRS also have to be durable as they get bounced and hammered around a lot....that's where the 34MM tubes come into play. Larger tube size can also allow for fitting more robust internals....though not every brand that offers a 34mm tube has bigger internals than their 30mm offerings. Again, it depends on the brand.

Trying to use a scope designed for PRS in the Benchrest world isn't going to work. Just like most scopes designed for Benchrest work aren't going to stand up to being slammed around like a PRS scope. Again, the game played dictates the gear. Common Sense 101.

Do your homework and get gear designed for the way you hunt, shoot or compete.

Your making an assumption that it even was still sighted in at the close of the season. I’m sure many don't check zero before every hunt. Some are probably hunting half the season with a rifle that will kill a deer but not really sighted in. This is why I say they will survive.

I'm making the assumption that no jarring event happened in between, yes. Also assuming that if they dropped the rifle, fell out of an ATV etc - they re-checked.

My point was more that a scope that doesn't do much but sit there 11 months out of the year, likely spends its hunting time slung over a shoulder or in the corner of a shoot house - shouldn't lose zero. Regardless of brand. Yet some do, it's why "sight in days" at the local range are packed the 2 weeks prior to opener and yet people accept this - philosophically.

I need to check my rifle before opener.
It's off - I'll adjust.

Never asking why it's off or if it should be off.

I get your point - people like that are why brands survive or maintain market share etc. I was talking more broad than Leupold and the OP's question.

We are in complete agreement.

I started out (back in the wagon wheel days) only buying used Gold Rings. First thing I'd do is send them off to Leupold for checking, refurbishing, and only occasionally adding a doodad.

Leupold was great about that, and I'd get them back in ~3 weeks, give or take. Of course this was before spinning turrets showed up, and mine were routinely set up for MPBR and then mostly left alone.
Only much later did I first dip my big toe into the waters of other glass offerings and discovered other glass that are GTG. But those were only bought new.

Zero depends on other things besides the scope/sights and lots of people apparently don't know that. For instance a wood stock is not a stable platform. It shrinks, swells and warps, all of which will change pressure on the barreled action and cause shifts in POI. There can also be POI shifts simply from holding a rifle slightly different from day to day. This is why one person shouldn't sight in a rifle for another. When I shot in small bore competition it was SOP to check zero prior to shooting for record at each and every practice or match. This on an indoor range with micrometer sights on wood stocked match rifles that were always treated with kid gloves. It was absolutely normal to need to adjust a click or two from day to day.

Wrong again

It’s illustrative of perfect click values, tracking and zero retention


In the Precision Rifle Series, NRL and Practial Rifle Matches, the competitor is allowed one shot at each target.

The scope must function perfectly



This is opposed to some other disciplines. F-Class sometimes has unlimited sighters. You can shoot at the target as many times as you want until you adjust your drop and windage to your liking, THEN decide to shoot for score.

Your scope’s function can be mediocre

Then why does the Reupold MK5 HD behave like this at 50yds,aboard a World Class Rifle,in static conditions? Hint.










That's NOT: "illustrative of perfect click values, tracking and zero retention". Though it is indeed THE opposite,which I guess is "close"? Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Perfect tracking is nice but to me a scope that stays sighted in with some rough handling is more important. The old M8 series scopes without "clicks" were solid in this regard as were the early Weavers. Not perfect pieces of glass but solid sights for hunting rifles.