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Meade took a wild guess massed troops in the center July 3 outsmarted us jonnys š¤£
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Campfire Kahuna
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To quote Harry Truman, A school boy's hind sight, is always better than a general's foresight.
These premises insured by a Sheltie in Training ,--- and Cooey.o "May the Good Lord take a likin' to you"
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I canāt say wild guess. Deductive reasoning. Meade held a counsel of war, at 8 pm in his headquarters. Each of his corps commanders, and most of the division commanders as well, Everybody agreed that they held good positions. Stay here and āfight it outā. There was nothing to be gained by attacking. Lee either had to attack tomorrow or withdraw from lack of supplies. At the end of the meeting, Meade approached Gibbon, who commanded the Union Center of Cemetery Ridge. āIf Lee attacks tomorrow, it will be on your front.ā Meade didnāt need a crystal ball. Lee had tried both flanks on the 2nd. Constantly pulling troops from the Yankee center to reinforce the flanks. If Meade was weak, it must be in the center. Besides. Wilcox Had nearly captured it yesterday! Ewells troops had actually captured some of the Yankees works on Culpās Hill. They were supposed to attack before daylight, hopefully drawing even more troops from the Union center. But the Yankees came back in the night, and forced Ewells guys out of their entrenchments, so the attack was never launched. Now in the Civil War, artillery had one of two jobs. Either counter battery fire or counter force fire. On attack, the idea was to knock out the defending cannon. On defense, artillery was focused on the enemy infantry. Explosive shot, shrapnel at first, switching to canister as they closed the range. Hence, we had the great barrage, hoping to knock the Yankee guns out, of drive them away. Trouble here is that your own powder smoke is gonna obscure your vision. You donāt know how effective your fire is, except by returning fire!
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." ļæ½ Wesley Pruden
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Such a clusterfuck so many advantages could have been exploited.Peg leg Ewell blew the wad day 1 but in his defense he wonāt TJ Jacksonš
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This is what brought on the great argument between Hancock, the infantry Commander and Hunt who was in charge of artillery, Hunt wanted to conserve ammunition for the infantry assault. Hancock, commanding infantry, realized how hard it was to receive a barrage, especially when your own artillery donāt fire back! Hancock ordered the guns to fire, Hunt came by, minutes later, ordering them to cease fire. Sometimes the opposite. Hunt got there first, a few minutes later Hancock comes and tells you to shoot back!š This argument was carried on in the newspapers after the war! Who was right? As a former soldier, I would want to hear my buddies shooting back, but hunt definitely had a point too š We all know now how this story ends. Damn shame that so many died, in defense of the union, or of states rights to govern themselves. Iām a Yankee. Lived here in Pennsyltucky all my life. I belong here. These hills and ridges are my home. I believe it an honor to lay down my life in defense of my home and family. That said, thereās definitely another side to this story, the right of the people to govern themselves, outside of Washington influence. Thatās worth dying for too. Screw Washington. I can be responsible for myself. Reon
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." ļæ½ Wesley Pruden
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I wanted to go to Gettysburg this Saturday but it's going to be rain until 3 pm. My only hope is more of the afternoon will clear up between now and then
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Iāll give two thumbs up šš to Alonzo Cushing even though he was a yanky
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Iāll give two thumbs up šš to Alonzo Cushing even though he was a yanky Directing his guns while holding his guts in with his other hand!
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Iāll give two thumbs up šš to Alonzo Cushing even though he was a yanky Directing his guns while holding his guts in with his other hand! He was ordered to the rear but held his ground š
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In Ewells defense on day one, even had Stonewall been there, taking Cemetery Hill or Culps Hill would have made Cemetery Ridge untenable for the Yankees. At that time, if you got your arty on a high point, you had the bad guys by the short hairs. The strength of Meades position was those hills. If Lee could get possession, and set up a few guns, Meade couldnāt hold his line. But then he wouldāve withdrawn to Pipe Creek. He would still have the inside track between Lee and Baltimore, Philadelphia, or Washington. Maybe Lee could grab Harrisburg, the PA capital. But that would have meant a slight victory, he couldnāt hang on long. He was a long way from his supply lines. He had to keep moving or heād starve. Meade and his commanders were well aware of this, Thatās why their consensus on 2 July was āstay here and fight it outā! Reon
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." ļæ½ Wesley Pruden
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Such a clusterfuck so many advantages could have been exploited.Peg leg Ewell blew the wad day 1 but in his defense he wonāt TJ Jacksonš Peg Leg Ewell was suffering from a clumsily amputed leg less than a year previous which jagged bone end caused much pain (even over and above what a sawn-off leg would ordinarily cause).. and took a fall from his horse onto it that very day, which must have been excruciating. But hereās a take on the end of Day 1 one rarely hears. From the book The Second Day at Gettysburgā¦. General Lee had sent a note to Ewell suggesting that he take Cemetery Hill āif practicalā. Ewell studied the terrain and enemy from his perspective and decided it was not practical for a host of reasons.
One reason was that he had earlier received information that a considerable enemy force was approaching from the east. This threat prove to be true. Brigadier General Adolphus S Williams, in temporary command of the Union 12th Corps, was leading his division north using a rural lane connecting with the Hanover Roadā¦
Williams two brigades, some 3700 men accompanied by 10 Napoleon cannons in two batteries, successfully gained Ewellās left flankā¦.. They formed two lines of battleā¦ fronting west on either side of the Hanover Road.
Division commander Jubal Early decided the threat needed addressingā¦. ā I thought it proper to send General Gordon with his brigade to keep a lookout andā¦. stop any further alarm.āā¦ soon thereafter, Ewell sent his last division under Edward Johnson, to relieve Gordonā¦
If Cemetery Hill was to be carried, Jubal Earlyās men would have to do it. His division, however, was divided and had also suffered sizable losses. The brigades of Gordon and Smith were off to the east protecting the flank - a job normally tasked to cavalry, and the understrength brigades of Harry Hayes and Isaac Avery were disorganized and too small to do much of lasting value without additional coordinated support.
By 7 PM, it would have been very difficult to successfully organize and attack south against the reinforced heights without help from Andersonās fresh division. Anderson, however, never received an order [from Lee] to advance that eveningā¦.
Fortunately for Ewell, General Slocum, commanding the Union right wing, ordered Williams not to engageā¦.
Between 5 and 6 PM, when more Federals were streaming out of and around the town of Gettysburg than Confederates were entering it, many in Andersonās division believed that one last all-out assault on the heights past town would secure a decisive victory.
No order to advance, however arrivedā¦. While Ewell was evaluating his options for striking at Cemetery Hill, Andersonās frustrated infantry went into bivouac on Herrās Ridge.Two questions. 1) What indeed would Jackson have done? When did he ever ignore a major enemy force on his flank? 2) Where was Lee? He had been on the field since riding up the Chambersburg Pike in the early afternoon. Why did he not send Andersonās brigade in? They were right there observing the battle. Why not merely ride over to Ewell and evaluate the situation himself?
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Such a clusterfuck so many advantages could have been exploited.Peg leg Ewell blew the wad day 1 but in his defense he wonāt TJ Jacksonš Peg Leg Ewell was suffering from a clumsily amputed leg less than a year previous which jagged bone end caused much pain (even over and above what a sawn-off leg would ordinarily cause).. and took a fall from his horse onto it that very day, which must have been excruciating. But hereās a take on the end of Day 1 one rarely hears. From the book The Second Day at Gettysburgā¦. General Lee had sent a note to Ewell suggesting that he take Cemetery Hill āif practicalā. Ewell studied the terrain and enemy from his perspective and decided it was not practical for a host of reasons.
One reason was that he had earlier received information that a considerable enemy force was approaching from the east. This threat prove to be true. Brigadier General Adolphus S Williams, in temporary command of the Union 12th Corps, was leading his division north using a rural lane connecting with the Hanover Roadā¦
Williams two brigades, some 3700 men accompanied by 10 Napoleon cannons in two batteries, successfully gained Ewellās left flankā¦.. They formed two lines of battleā¦ fronting west on either side of the Hanover Road.
Division commander Jubal Early decided the threat needed addressingā¦. ā I thought it proper to send General Gordon with his brigade to keep a lookout andā¦. stop any further alarm.āā¦ soon thereafter, Ewell sent his last division under Edward Johnson, to relieve Gordonā¦
If Cemetery Hill was to be carried, Jubal Earlyās men would have to do it. His division, however, was divided and had also suffered sizable losses. The brigades of Gordon and Smith were off to the east protecting the flank - a job normally tasked to cavalry, and the understrength brigades of Harry Hayes and Isaac Avery were disorganized and too small to do much of lasting value without additional coordinated support.
By 7 PM, it would have been very difficult to successfully organize and attack south against the reinforced heights without help from Andersonās fresh division. Anderson, however, never received an order [from Lee] to advance that eveningā¦.
Fortunately for Ewell, General Slocum, commanding the Union right wing, ordered Williams not to engageā¦.
Between 5 and 6 PM, when more Federals were streaming out of and around the town of Gettysburg than Confederates were entering it, many in Andersonās division believed that one last all-out assault on the heights past town would secure a decisive victory.
No order to advance, however arrivedā¦. While Ewell was evaluating his options for striking at Cemetery Hill, Andersonās frustrated infantry went into bivouac on Herrās Ridge.Two questions. 1) What indeed would Jackson have done? When did he ever ignore a major enemy force on his flank? 2) Where was Lee? He had been on the field since riding up the Chambersburg Pike in the early afternoon. Why did he not send Andersonās brigade in? They were right there observing the battle. Why not merely ride over to Ewell and evaluate the situation himself? Wasn't Ewell supposed to try and take Culps hill?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Wasn't Ewell supposed to try and take Culps hill? In the words of General Leeā¦. āif practicableā. The quoted passage explains why he did not. Most specifically, Union skirmishers had driven Confederate flankers off Bennerās Hill to Ewellās left and a force of 3,700 Federals with ten cannons had arrived and set up shop on Ewellās left flank, which would become his rear should he advance. Also, Ewell was to take the hill āif practicableā but to āavoid bringing on a general engagementā. Without cavalry Lee, like Ewell, had no idea of the Federal disposition at this point. A good description hereā¦ Link In essence Richard Ewell was in a no win scenario on July 1st. With no support from Lee, Longstreet, or Hill; Dick Ewell was expected to take a highly defensible hill, with poor avenues of advance, and even worse positions for his artillery.
Ewell also had to deal with unclear orders from Lee. In his official report, Lee stated, āGeneral Ewell was, therefore, instructed to carry the hill occupied by the enemy [Cemetery Hill], if he found it practicableā¦.ā Itās important to note that those wordsāāif practicableāānever appeared in print until Lee filed his revised report of the battle in January 1864, more than six months after the fight.
Lee went on to say; āWithout information as to its proximity, the strong position which the enemy had assumed could not be attacked without danger of exposing the four divisions present, already weakened and exhausted by a long and bloody struggle, to overwhelming numbers of fresh troops.
General Ewell was, therefore, instructed to carry the hill occupied by the enemy, if he found it practicable, but to avoid a general engagement until the arrival of the other divisions of the army, which were to hasten forward.ā Unfortunately, in the years since the battle, much emphasis has been placed on the phrase āif practicableāāwords that Lee may have never uttered in the heat of battleāand the warning about avoiding a general engagement has been ignored
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Wasn't Ewell supposed to try and take Culps hill? In the words of General Leeā¦. āif practicableā. The quoted passage explains why he did not. Most specifically, Union skirmishers had driven Confederate flankers off Bennerās Hill to Ewellās left and a force of 3,700 Federals with ten cannons had arrived and set up shop on Ewellās left flank, which would become his rear should he advance. Also, Ewell was to take the hill āif practicableā but to āavoid bringing on a general engagementā. Without cavalry Lee, like Ewell, had no idea of the Federal disposition at this point. A good description hereā¦ Link In essence Richard Ewell was in a no win scenario on July 1st. With no support from Lee, Longstreet, or Hill; Dick Ewell was expected to take a highly defensible hill, with poor avenues of advance, and even worse positions for his artillery.
Ewell also had to deal with unclear orders from Lee. In his official report, Lee stated, āGeneral Ewell was, therefore, instructed to carry the hill occupied by the enemy [Cemetery Hill], if he found it practicableā¦.ā Itās important to note that those wordsāāif practicableāānever appeared in print until Lee filed his revised report of the battle in January 1864, more than six months after the fight.
Lee went on to say; āWithout information as to its proximity, the strong position which the enemy had assumed could not be attacked without danger of exposing the four divisions present, already weakened and exhausted by a long and bloody struggle, to overwhelming numbers of fresh troops.
General Ewell was, therefore, instructed to carry the hill occupied by the enemy, if he found it practicable, but to avoid a general engagement until the arrival of the other divisions of the army, which were to hasten forward.ā Unfortunately, in the years since the battle, much emphasis has been placed on the phrase āif practicableāāwords that Lee may have never uttered in the heat of battleāand the warning about avoiding a general engagement has been ignoredI can only imagine the confusion that happened there. Surreal actually
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In my humble opinion it was an elaborate risky endeavor that Lee took marching to Gettysburg. It was a long march. He had little support and tired men to fight with when he got there. I have read that when Picket marched in he couldāve taken the Union position because they were undermanned. His orders were not to engage. This gave the Union time to reinforce.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I also heard the rumor that he was suffering from dysentery when the battle was fought. āMarse Robbert has got the runs,ā so to speak!š That comment came from the British tourist Arthur Fremantle, who accompanied the Army of Northern Virginia for two weeks before crossing the Union lines and traveling on to New York. I see no reason to doubt his account. Lee being sidelined by shigella or dysentery during this critical time doesnāt seem like something his subordinates would include afterwards in their memoirs. If he had come down with a severe case of the runs, that would explain much.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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In my humble opinion it was an elaborate risky endeavor that Lee took marching to Gettysburg. It was a long march. He had little support and tired men to fight with when he got there. I have read that when Picket marched in he couldāve taken the Union position because they were undermanned. His orders were not to engage. This gave the Union time to reinforce. Iāve read that as well
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Perryās brigade to the left of Wilcox took cemetery ridge July 2 but didnāt have support would have been a fine time for Pickett to be behind them
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Campfire 'Bwana
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When it comes to comparing Ewell vs Jackson, the link I posted emphases how Jackson placed a high emphasis on scouting out the deployments of the enemy before striking. It states that it was this very quality that led to his death, riding out in front of his own troops at Chambersburg on a reconnaissance mission and being shot by them on his return.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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