Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles RCBS FL Sizing Dies...Insructions Suck!

No it is not bad.

Friend I wish I were close to you. I would have you fixed up in about 10 minites.

GB

[quote=AlaskaCubI have those instruction sbut then I read this article on incrimental reloading and it discusses starting a couple turns out and working your way in as opposed to starting kissing the shell holder.

http://www.sierrabullets.com/index....p;page=xring&volume=8&issue=1#01 [/quote]

First , your link won't open for me so I can't comment on it's content. Second, first and foremost, Follow the instructions that came with your dies. Bullet manufactures make bullets , not dies. If you revert back to the instructions(RCBS) that came with your dies then you should be good to go.

Just a thought.
Dies for belted cases normally don`t size all the way down to the belt as I`ve been told, and difficult chambering often arises because after a few loading they swell too much just in front of the belt to fit the chamber.
Is it possible that screwing the die so deep in the press he is over sizeing the case and moving brass down where it builds in front of the belt obstructing chambering? It fits when he part sizes so obviously there is a problem with sizing somewhere between 1 turn out and one turn after touching the shellholder.

Cub,

I thought we had this thing beat. I'm wishing I was there with you so I could help on site.

mathman

I did too MM, I loaded up a half dozen or so accuracy test loads and was ready to take them to the range and I tried loading them in the gun and they were tight as hell. Dont know what I did different?

I suspect either a tight chamber or a defective die. Smoke or magic marker up a resized cartridge, attempt chambering, and see where it's hanging up. Also, I suggest you send 3 or 4 once fired cartridges and 3 or 4 once fired and resized (bumping the shell holder) cartridges to RCBS.

Lastly, if anyone in the neighborhood has some similar dies, give them a try. One might also try a neck sizer if you can find one.

Still suggest that you do a search on this site for partial full length sizing. Since you are having a problem with two sets of dies, it probably lies in your adjustment. Belted mags need to headspace on the shoulder and you are not doing this. A set of Redding competition shell holders could also solve your problem. Most belted cases don't respond well to the generic instructions provided with the dies.Rick.

What 1minute said.

Suppose the chamber in the rifle is slightly undersized. Partially resize by turning the sizing die 1� turns out and you're not moving much metal, leaving most of the case fireformed to the dimension of the chamber. Brass is a little springy so after firing it springs back to just a little smaller than the chamber and it works out ok.

Size with the die touching the shell holder plus a bit and all that push-back on the shoulder forces the front half or so of the case against the side of the die, perhaps making it a little bigger than it was and you get a tight fit. Remember that headspace is on the belt so that's the critically controlled dimension. If tolerances stack, full-length resizing can move the shoulder back quite a bit. Factory fresh brass would give no problem as it's slightly smaller in dimensions than what you get with a full length sizer.

Not quite a "wild azz guess" but close, RCBS would know, particularly if they had some cases to measure.

--------------

Assuming, of course, that the dies are set up properly. Following manufacturer's directions carefully always worked for me, though tweaking things a bit improved accuracy.

AC:
Just caught this thread. Stop! Step back! Drink a cool one! Wait a bit! Go back and really, really read the instructions. It ain't rocket science. The die is turned down to JUST touch the shell holder. Then, Lower the ram and turn it down only about 1/8 of a turn. Try a fired case. If it doesn't chamber easily, turn turn the die down another 1/8 turn & try it again.
Good grief, I told you months ago to gimme a call if'n ya wanted help. I got all the time in the world, it's colder than a witche's "you know what" and sheep season is 8 months away. I GOTTA HAVESOMTHIN TA DO TA KEEP MY SANITY.
Bear in Fairbanks

AC,
It is NOT bad to have the die NOT touching the shell holder. You only need to size the fired case to the point where it functions repeatably and reliably through the rifle. I have a couple of belted calibers that I have to regularly load for that have the die a long ways from the shell holder. You need about 1/2 to 1/3 of the neck sized , or just enough to hold the bullet. You only need to have the shell holder contact the die base when the cartrige/chamber combo requires near to, or complete sizing. If you are not having chambering problems with the die out the 1 1/2 turns, don't worry about it. What I would do is to take a couple of cases sized that way and load and shoot the same cases several times. Keep note of the tightness of the primer pocket tightness in the process. You could use any old bullet for this instead of burning up expensive ones. Load,shoot, size, and repeat with the die where you have it. If the cases keep working, note where the die is set and leave it alone, because that is where the die adjustment needs to be for that rifle's chamber relationship to the process. I repeat do not worry if the die does not contact the shell holder.

It does seem strange that a case sized in a die properly adjusted to full length re-size will not chamber. You may well be right in that there is some distortion occuring in the process somewhere. I too wish I were closer to Alaska then Southern Oregon, because the problem is likely pretty simple. However if the cases sized and shot from the turn and a half off the shell holder works repeatably and reliably that's where I'd stay. One of these days you'll have a smack your self upside the head moment with the thought"..So that all it was". Or when you figure it out those of us who have replied may have the same sort of moment and wonder why the devil one of us didn't see that. Anyway It seems you are OK were you are. The only other thing I might do is get a chamber cast to be sure something is not out of whack there.

Steve

Thanks for the help fellas. Bear I am pig headed thats my problem, calling you shortly!

Cub

Cub, fellow rookie here as well. I am using the RCBS FL die set part #30801...

I'll bet my left nut you're not pushing the shoulder back quite far enough with your .300WSM....



Here's a trick Kalbrecht told me about. Take a .45 or as I did a .44 mag case and follow the instruction in the pic. It's sorta tricky keeping the two cases lined up in order to get a precise measurement but still gives you a good idea of where the shoulder is at.

FWIW I measured an,

unfired case-3.008"

fired case(not sized (shown in the pic))-3.010"-chambers fine

sized case(die 1/2 turn off shellholder)-3.014"-chambers very tight

sized case(die 1/8 turn past contact with shellholder)-3.012"-chambers with slight crush aka perfect


Try doing this and let us know what you find out. Of course your measurements will be different than mine because we are not using the same handgun brass.........

Thanks to Kalbrecht for giving me an idea of how the dies are working the brass. The 'fire rules.....

I have done the same as SamOlson is demonstrating. Also, as per my entry above:



Check out this easy to use gage. They work great!
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=336210

These from RCBS work too!
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=684505&t=11082005

Gages like this are GREAT for new reloaders. It makes things more intuitive allowing for a better understanding how resizing and brass flow works. You will then reach a point where you will not hang on to every word in a "generic" instruction manual, but start to figure things out on your own. Been there done that, that's how I know.

All Right fellas I must be losing my mind. After taking a deep breath, building a little patience I just went out and lubed up 6 pieces of brass on both my 300WSM and 6 pieces for the 338WM. Step by step I lubed 6 of each cal and reset the dies to kissing the shellholder and adjusted in a 1/8 turn on each piece of brass and I think I am losing it cuz it worked perfect. I felt the tight fit with the die kissing and as I screwed it in an 1/8 turn at a time the crush fit was less crushed till the round chambered easily and then I backed up an 1/8 of a turn till the crush fit was just right but not too tight. I dont know what the hell I did last night that got me so frustrated. I feel like a jackazz now. I even seated a bullet in each to make sure it would chamber fine at it worked perfect. Sorry for the ranting panic attack.

I knew you could do it.

Now you can STOP feeling like a Jacka$$
Hope you have a good day.
HD

+1.

You're absolutley brilliant man! Now that you've perfected that, go have a beer, and take on another challenge. Happy hunting, 1Minute

AC at one time or the other we have been there. Good luck with your reloading and let us know what the results looked like.

Welcome to the club! Don't know how many times I've done something like that. Latest was my old ATV, worked off and on for a couple weeks trying to get it to run when I realized I had a part installed backwards. Fit really well that way too!

Yep. Spent almost an hour one day trying to get my GPS unit to talk with my PC. Turned out the USB cord wasn't plugged in. Duh, 1Minute