Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 308 compressed load run out question

I am shooting a 308 with lapua brass and 45.5 grains of Varget powder. Bullets are 155 grain lapua scenars. This is a compressed load. Very accurate, but have been getting some run out problems on some rounds that were .004-.006 thousandths. This has caused issues, especially at 4-500yds. I have used Redding bushing dies, rcbs standard dies and a Wilson inline seating die. On an empty case with no powder I can get .001 runout. On cases with powder, the compressed powder load with the bullet causes runout, regardless of the seating die. Any ideas to get the bullet to seat without runout? Shooting this load in a tikka, and an older rem 700.

When you say problems, what kind of problems?

What kind of groups are you getting with lower runout?

Is it a waterline problem? What is your ES and SD?

So my tikka shoots a very consistent 3/4-1" 5 shot group at 100 yds with rounds that have run out of .001-.003 . Rounds that have .005-.006 runout will give me groups of around 1.5", maybe a touch less. I have ran this drill about 3 different times. So at, lets say , 500 yds my group (5 shots) is quite a bit bigger with rounds that have .004-.006 run out . This is what I'm trying to eliminate. The bullets seating in a full case is causing this. Again a seated bullet in an empty case is showing .001 run out.

45.5 of Varget doesn't seem like it would need a lot of compression. Up to 46.5 is pretty standard for Lapua brass. What overall length are your loaded cartridges?

A couple of things can help with settling the power for more room. A long drop tube will help as will slowly filling the case, but another effective method for me is to take my MTM loading tray with 50 charged cases in it, sandwich a second tray on top to seal the case mouths and press it against a running case tumbler. That will settle the charge about as much as possible IMO. I much prefer powders that do not require these sorts of tricks though...

I forget the exact coal, I have it written down, but in terms of my tikkas magazine, the bullet runs right out to the very end of it.This was the sweet spot in terms of seating depth when developing the load. As far as a drop tube for the powder, or some other method like you mentioned, I will do it if I have to, but I'm not crazy a out it either.

Is the Varget up into the neck? I shoot up a lot of .308 Lapua brass, but haven't used Varget in years. I used at least 3 jugs of settled or compressed N150 a couple of barrels ago, just because it was available, but did not have any runout issues. Best of luck

Its just below the neck, but up far enough that when I seat the bullet, its pushing into the powder about the last quarter of the way. Thanks for the response.

I ran into the same issue recently myself.I was making some test loads and working up by half grain increments.My last loads were at max and were compressed.I decided to just check the runout,not really expecting it to be much since the brass was once-fired.I had four groups of four.I started with the lower charge weight loads and nothing was over .002,but when I checked the last four that had the highest charge weights,every one of them was .004-.006.I guess I need to watch this closer too.The only remedy I see for this is try dropping the load .5grs and see if the runout changes or try seating the bullet a little longer.I never noticed that much of an accuracy issue with .004-.006 runout at closer ranges,but then I never checked to see if it was an issue at longer ranges,

Wondering if CFE223, AR Comp, IMR 8208 XBR, or even RL 15 would be better options for powder, so he's not having to compress the loads? Just a thought. Where's mathman on this??



I'm seriously doubting you are finding the "sweet spot", with the factory 308 magazine. I'm not exactly sure how you know it's the sweet spot either. How far off the lands are you running that bullet? In all likelihood, if you are using the 308 mag, you are way off the lands. I run the M+ mags in my 308, and my buddy also does the same thing in his T3 stainless varmint model. That way you can load much closer to the lands. More info needed there, like how far off the lands you are. You could find out that with the bullet seated closer to the lands, you won't have a "compressed" load. A lot of my loads in the Tikka run 2.9"+, and the 308 mag is only about 2.8" internal length. The M+ mag will net you around 2.98"

Thanks for the responses. My overall length is 2.78 in my tikka and that's fairly close to the end of the magazine. Could maybe go out a touch more, but not enough to fix my compression problem. Ill look at the load data for r15.

I don't think 0.005" vs 0.003" of runout is causing your group size to double. If it is manifesting on the higher runout cartridges, it may be psychological. More than likely, it is normal distribution for your load.

If you want to eliminate runout, and you're certain it is being induced with bullet seating, the above advice of using a drop tube is good. Additionally, use a "bench rest" or Competition seating die if you're seating with the press. Another thing that can help is using an in-line seating die and arbor press.

Be sure to anneal every firing as well.

I just checked some 308 Win ammo I had loaded with 150gr Interbonds,46.5grs of Varget.OAL was 2.78 and 150gr Ballistic Tip,46.5grs of Varget,OAL was 2.82.I'm seeing very little runout on those loads and I'm a grain more Varget than your load.I'm using once-fired Winchester brass,that may have a larger case volume than your brass.One other thing I have found that will cause higher runout is hard brass.I've watched this working with a group of brass that starts out with nearly zero runout.By the time the brass was fired and resized around four times,the runout really started to increase.Annealed the brass and the runout decreased back to near zero again.

I went to an inline seating die, and arbor press. Same situation. On an empty case there is virtually no run out. On a case with the powder in it, the run out returns. I think the drop tube may be my next thing to try. Agree on the annealing of hard cases. It makes a difference for sure. These cases are on their second firing, and feel pretty good.

Do you have any TAC? That will solve your compression problem.

I load Varget or Shooters World Precision (VERY similar) under 155 Scenars in Rem 308 brass with CCI200s and shoot them in a Tikka T3x. I load on a Dillon 550RL B that's 30+ years old with Redding dies.

Haven't checked for runout, and never do. I shoot them and look for accuracy.

Are you having an accuracy issue and trying to resolve that? If not, why does run out matter?

Yes as I mentioned above, this is about accuracy, especially at distance. With strait rounds at 500 yds laying in the dirt, good conditions, I will shoot a 5" group, sometimes a little less. (5 shots) Take rounds that have .004-.006 runout, and shoot them on the same target the sameday, and this group goes to 7-8". I have duplicated this several times. Same result. Hense, trying to eliminate the run out.

No I dont, but i may go there next. Thanks.

Or Win 748.

Both meter very well.

I don't have any Lapua cases to compare,but I put 45.5grs of Varget in one of my Winchester cases and it was a good bit below the bottom of the neck.I added Varget to the case until it was just up to the bottom of the neck and weighed the powder and I got 49.5grs of Varget.The Lapua cases must have a good bit less volume if 45.5grs of Varget is putting it up to the bottom of the neck.Since it's seating empty cases straight,you might try loading the case with 45.5grs of Varget and seating the bullet long and check the runout.It should be straight.Then seat the bullet in at small increments and keep checking each time to see at what seating depth your picking up the higher runout.You could also anneal a case to see if the runout decreases too.

Winchester 308 cases have become more variable recently, but for most of the time since I started using Lapua cases twenty years ago I've found Lapua 308 cases to be almost twenty grains heavier.