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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,784 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,784 Likes: 2 |
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,784 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,784 Likes: 2 |
Having copy and past issues on phone
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,473 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,473 Likes: 5 |
One might have a case where they bought a gun say in the 1970s then sold it in 2024 for more money. In all actuality it's a case of 1970s dollars compared to 2024 dollars. It might be a profit but it could also be a wash or a loss. The profit piece of that regulation leaves much room for interpretation and argument.
There is also a bit of ambiguity in the wording about personal collections and self defense guns. A M1 Carbine was mainly an offensive weapon but medics may have been issued them for personal defense and defense of their patients.
Medics bury their mistakes..
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 974
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 974 |
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Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 5,276 Likes: 12
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2020
Posts: 5,276 Likes: 12 |
So.... are we gonna have to keep records of how much we paid for a gun and the date purchased?
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 26,576 Likes: 17 |
If this here is the law, you all are just making [bleep] up. All it does is spell it out in a little clearer wording, so you all understand. The final version of ATF Rule 2022R-17 has been submitted to the Federal Register and will go into effect 30 days after the date of publication. The Final Rule broadens the definition of who is “engaged in the business” as a dealer in firearms and finalizes many amendments to regulatory definitions.
A person will be considered to be “engaged in the business” as a dealer in firearms, when that person:
Resells or offers for resale firearms, and also represents to potential buyers or otherwise demonstrates a willingness and ability to purchase and resell additional firearms (i.e., to be a source of additional firearms for resale)” Repetitively purchases for the purpose of resale, or repetitively resells or offers for resale, firearms— (i) Through straw or sham businesses, or individual straw purchasers or sellers; or (ii) That cannot lawfully be purchased, received, or possessed under Federal, State, local, or Tribal law…
Repetitively sells or offers for resale firearms (i) Within 30 days after the person purchased the firearms; or
(ii) Within one year after the person purchased the firearms if they are
(A) New, or like new in their original packaging; or
(B) The same make and model, or variants thereof
As a former licensee (or responsible person acting on behalf of the former licensee), resells or offers for resale to a person . . . firearms that were in the business inventory of the former licensee at the time the license was terminated… and
As a former licensee (or responsible person acting on behalf of the former licensee), resells or offers for resale firearms that were transferred to the licensee’s personal collection…” The Rule finalizes the amendment to the regulatory definition of “Dealer” to clarify that firearms dealing may occur wherever, or through whatever medium, qualifying domestic or international activities are conducted.
The Rule also “finalizes an amendment to the regulatory definition of “engaged in the business” to define the terms “purchase” and “sale” as they apply to dealers to include any method of payment or medium of exchange for a firearm, including services or illicit forms of payment (e.g., controlled substances). “Resale” is defined to mean “selling a firearm, including a stolen firearm, after it was previously sold by the original manufacturer or any other person.””
Providing services is considered a medium of exchange, so the ATF has codified their “historical exclusion for auctioneers who provide only auction services on commission to assist in liquidating firearms at an “estate-type” auction.”
The ruling states that a “licensee transferring a firearm to another licensee, must do so by following the verification and recordkeeping procedures in the regulations, rather than by using a Firearms Transaction Record, ATF Form 4473.”
“The final rule recognizes that individuals who purchase firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or a legitimate hobby are permitted by the GCA to occasionally buy and sell firearms for those purposes, or occasionally resell to a licensee or to a family member for lawful purposes, without the need to obtain a license.” Without an FFL, an individual must ensure they are not “engaged in the business” and the transaction is not “to predominantly earn a profit”, which now focuses only on whether the intent of the underlying sale or disposition of the firearms is predominantly of the obtaining pecuniary gain. Individuals may continue to engage in private intrastate sales, without a license, provided the individuals are not “engaged in the business” and the transaction is otherwise compliance with the law. And it looks as if it's spelled out pretty clearly in the new wording... Phil Glad you have this figured out. Let's look at the wording of the law and I'll let you answer my question. "The final rule recognizes that individuals who purchase firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or a legitimate hobby are permitted by the GCA to occasionally buy and sell firearms for those purposes." Specifically how often is occasionally? Once a week? Once a month? Once a year? Give me a clear, definitive and non-subjective answer. This should be fun. Something tells me we are about to do the typical liberal dance. Bump. Anything?
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10,145 Likes: 4
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 10,145 Likes: 4 |
Now with the ATF you are guilty until proven innocent, just like the Soviet Union. They can be 100% in the wrong, and it will take all of your life's savings to prove they are, and they will have no consequences.
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