Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Where is the 25-08?

This is the problem for me. I looked at a Hawkeye the other day and it was OK, (the trigger was downright fantastic) but I don't want the Bob in a long action.

The rifle that has been mentioned several times as a great match to the Bob is the Kimber 84M. However, here we go again with the 2.8" OAL restriction and I'm still not clear on what this would mean when loading longer bullets and trying to get close to the rifling.

I think Big_Redhead nails the only potential appeal of the .25 Souper, and that is counteracting the fears about stuffing the Bob into a short action (It's also not a stupid-looking cartridge like the WSSM.)

KS

Many hunters have no idea the Bob even exist. I have several and when a hunting buddy inquires to the chambering of the particular rifle, I tell them it's a 257 Roberts and they just kinda look at me funny for shooting some antique they have never heard of.

A "new" 25-308 would attract a new and upcoming generation of shooters and with the 308 parent, most folks would have some idea as to it's origin.

The 260 rem was not necessary and does not bring any whiz bang to the market but it is still breathing. yes, it is a 6.5x55 in a short action but who in the US uses the 6.5 (except for a few loonies)?

The 260 was a answer for a problem that did not exist. with the 243 and 7mm-08 on each side, especially a never popular in the US .264.

25s do generally ok in the US. the 250-3000 is just about unavailable, the 257 has limited availability in new rifles but he 25-06 has a following the the 257 wby is the fo shizzle for those 25 fans that like a little speed.

emerging new hunters are not going to hunt with grandpa's antique 257, even if it is excellent. a new 25-308, now that might get their attention!

I would build one, and still may, but damn sure am not going to feed any cartridge in my chamber that is stamped 243 or 260! I guess I would have to find other brass.

For better or worse, the 270 makes a pretty good youth rifle these days with reduced recoil ammo. I think this could bite the manufacturers in the long run as they may sell fewer rifles. buy the kid a 270, shoot reduced recoil ammo and then shoot the regular stuff when he gets bigger. only buying one rifle instead of two. oh well, that's another issue.

JB, I think you could promote the virtues of the 25-308 honestly with no smoke or mirrors. It's simply a modern 257 and useful for many applications.

Still, you could not call it the 257 Barsness 'cause I have met you personally and I am still not sure how to pronounce your name!

I think that's an X-ring hit.

I made mine from 7-08 because there was no 260 back then. Done slowly with virgin brass, one pass through the sizer worked almost perfectly. Too fast resulted in buckling. But a pass through the seater die first (lubed of course) works like an intermediate sizer and allows even 308 brass to be used. The only brass I found too thick to use without thinning the neck was Federal Match 308; all others worked fine as is.

Mule Deer,

I'm struggling with your assessment that the cost of introduction would be "hundreds of thousands of dollars." If the company already makes 25 caliber barrels, the only cost for actual production I can think of for 25-08 barrels would be for consumables such as chamber reamers (or hammer forging mandrel) and caliber stamp, and the capital cost for test/inspection gauges. Then there is the cost of the new markings on the packaging, which is probably just a bit of programming. Of course there would be the cost of implementing the new part numbers in the MRP and production scheduling systems. For ammo production it would mean new case forming dies and load development, and the costs involved with SAAMI standardization and patent processing. Then there is the cost of the ad campaign. Gee, now that we begin to itemize it, I can see where the cost of introduction could very well be hundreds of thousands.

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Why even advertise? Drop the 243, drop the 260, introduce the 25-08 and watch everyone start to talk!

Killsoft -about longer bullets, aren't copper bullets like Barnes shorter in the same weight than standard bullets? if so, wouldn't that help negate the action size? I haven't used or reloaded the Barnes yet so I am just wondering if it might make a difference for you ( or me for that matter).

The 25 Souper (25-08) was proposed by a Mr. Lambert when the military version of the 308 had just come out. At that time the .25 bore was not deemed all that accurate only because the bullets made before Sierra got into business were not accurate.

Warren Page and Fred Huntington of RCBS were working on 6mm's and Huntington (Rock Chuck Bullet Swage) knew how to make accurate bullets. Page mocked the 25 Souper by introducing one of his rounds as the 240 Page Souper Pooper.

The public had tired of the .25" and was ready for the 6mm's and the commercial version of Page's 243 Souper Pooper evolved into the 243 Winchester. The rest is history and the .25" bore never recovered not that there is or was anything wrong with it.

The best reason at this point for no 25 Souper is that it might be fired in a 243. Another is that there would be little demand for it.

No, solid copper bullets are generally longer than lead core bullets. Copper is less dense than lead per volume, so for a given volume it will weigh less. For a given weight, there will be a larger amount of copper. Lead is about 27 percent more dense than copper.

Put another way, the bore diameter of the two bullets you're comparing is fixed - can't increase. You could imagine that the extra copper to bring the weight back up to match the lead bullet must squish out axially <--> toward the chamber and muzzle. You'd get a longer pure copper bullet that weighs the same as the shorter lead core bullet.

KS

25/08 can be fired in a 243 is no reason not to introduce the round, the same can be said for a lot of rounds already on the market. How do you know how much demand there would be if it is not on the market. Pure speculation. If there were anywhere near the fanfare published on a 25Souper as there was with the short mags, they would sell. The 257Roberts is an excellent round but the buying public is not educated to that. An article every few years on the Roberts won't sell them. A rush of articles on the new 25Souper that equals the velocity of "The fine 257 Roberts" but in a short action with modern powders and a wide selection of bullets the improved version will "crowd" the excellent 25/06. Less recoil, shorter action, lighter rifle, etc. Yep! Think a case could be made for it.Rick.

Go ahead and do it Rick. Put your money on it.

http://www.reloadingroom.com/index_files/25-308.htm

Savage99, you haven't told me anything I didn't already know. I have a 257Roberts and 25Souper. Both great shooters thank you.
I don't suppose they coud change the headspace if they made a Souper, yes way too difficult. You never cease to amaze me.Rick.

You may have them but I detect that your unhappy.

You are absolutely wrong! I like both rounds but prefer to use the Souper for hunting. The Souper is built on a 700SA and the 257Roberts is an UL Ruger. Both take whitetails without a problem. Since I am not aware of any Roberts being offered in a SA, I still think the Souper would outsell the Roberts by a wide margin.Rick.