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Okay, well, you just opened a can of worms about religion anyway. I'll hold off until those worms wiggle off and find good homes before I open another.


It may well be a matter of enabling technology.

For thousands of years, farming was a small-scale, labor-intensive operation, whereby one person working full-time could keep only an acre or two in peak production. With tractors and herbicides and hybridization, though, now one person can keep a couple of thousand acres (more?) in peak production and still have time for vacation.

For thousands of years, childbirth was a horribly painful operation, and there was no help for it except to give the poor woman something soft to lie on, something firm to bite on, and banish her husband from the area so that he wouldn't start breaking things and punching people. But with modern anesthetics and techniques, it's become almost a few-hour outpatient procedure.

For thousands of years, women were forcibly subjugated to men, and in many places treated as chattel property, because it was difficult or impossible for them to support themselves--especially if they had children--in an un-mechanized world without a man. Today, though, it's obvious that a woman can sit in an air-conditioned office and punch keys on a computer just as well as a man can; enter modern feminism with its "Women are exactly the same as men, except that men are pigs" philosophy.

It could very well be, it seems to me, that there's a level of technology beneath which individuals cannot both A) achieve a level of specialization capable of supporting a complex modern society, and B) be self-sufficient enough to scoff at the idea of being forcibly taken care of by a nanny state. One or the other, but not both. However, once technology rises above that level, it allows the proper amount of self-sufficiency along with the proper level of specialization.

And that is why I enjoy arguing on the Campfire. Even though I've argued this stuff over and over and over again here, so that probably 95% of the folks here don't even bother scanning my stuff once they see my avatar, I've never had that thought before, and I probably wouldn't have unless you or somebody like you had shoved me into it.

I'm going to think about that for awhile.

(Oh--and if you know anything about Christianity, the juxtaposition of those four examples will tell you enough about the "theory" I've been teasing to you that it won't be a surprise when we finally get around to it--matter of fact, you'll likely suss it out yourself.)

Barak, I'm keen to hear this as well. I'm a fan of science fiction.

Apparently other fiction as well......

You are aware that non-christians were routinely killed during the inquisition, and were also force into conversion? And that there are people who convert to Islam in modern countries like the US, without force.

Both Christians and Muslims claim that they are following the word of god, and both use their holy text to justify the most heinous acts imaginable. The christian west is just a century or two more advanced.

Is there really a difference between chopping off someone's head or blowing their limbs off with cluster bombs?

How many people in history have been killed in the name of religion, versus all other causes?

Your rate and volume of fire is just fine, but make sure it's directed properly.

The greatest generator of mass murder in the history of the world is not religion, but government.

(Of course, sometimes the government's intellectuals cloak the mass murder under a veil of religion to make it more palatable to the people; but that's not religion's fault.)

Operating alone, without the political power of government, I'd be surprised if even the most crazed, wild-eyed religious zealot in the world has managed to kill even 100 people over his whole lifetime. People tend to object to being killed, and without the resources of government it's really difficult to hold them down in large numbers.

But (I'm sure you've heard this statistic before) in the 20th century alone, governments murdered between 160 and 200 million of their own people--and a similar but lesser number of other governments' people.

Quitcher shnorrin': you've heard it already. The last time I brought it up was last week on one of Dixie's threads. (I forget which one.)

My thoughts, exactly.....

Seems someone has no problem with their self-confidence........

"Immanuel Kant was a real piss-ant
who was very rarely sober..." (Python - same bit)

Yes I am. I find the operative term in that statement "were". Those practices are found no where in the document that prescribes Christianity: the New Testament. Those who perpetrated such acts were in gross error of those principals and as history would show, most Christian principals. That is not a slight to those who still follow that denomination, but a confirmation that power in the degree the church held it at that time, is an absolutely corrupting force.

Islam on the other hand, is much more consistent to it's principles, which give much accomodation to mans fallen nature, and provide for all manner of attrocity to satisfy it.

That might be one way of looking at it, but in fact Christianity merely woke up to what their book was saying. Not coincidentally with the birth of this nation. To achieve the same degree of enlightenment and civility the Muslims would have to re-write theirs.

More than in any other cause, no doubt. That is because religion is wholly populated by people and people are fallen. The more power they achieve the more that fallen nature exhibits itself all the way to outright evil. It is also because people are largely religious. Most people believe in something. Some of those beliefs are strongly held and some not so much. If their religion is not true, the stronger they are held, the more harm they will do.

Ah...the "knowing the tree by it's fruits" defense. Certainly proof that anything but Christianity is the higher way. With examples like the Khans, Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Khmer Rouge and a host of others as examples, how could Christianity possibly stack up to the those fine, non-Christian standards?

I think I'll stick to studying the lives of the teachers and the teachings as the standard. It keeps me from climbing to the top of a tower.

Welcome to the fire.

A Voice of Reason, that'll be a first here

Having read your posts and being a Randian Objectivist myself, I can't see where we disagree.

What kind of rifle ye got VOR?
We have cults in the Hunting Rifles section.

I hoped someone would take that ball and run with it

"There's nothing Neitzsche couldn't teach ye 'bout the raising of the wrist"

Welcome to the fire

I started off with black rifles. Keep in mind that that like most converts, I'm probably a bit on the fanatical side. I decided that after the last assault rifle ban, and a possible upcoming one, I should get a few.

I have an AK, a Galil, an AR-15, an M1A and am waiting to pick up a new Sig.

Right now, I only have one bolt action, an FN SPR With a scope that I bought as a package. I am wondering if any of these are appropriate for dual use, i.e target/hunting, or if I should buy a rifle specifically for hunting.

"This is the wattle,
The emblem of our land,
You can stick it in a bottle
You can hold it in your hand"

I am NOT a poufter.

Hey, just found this graphic. Interesting.

RickD

From what I've seen, most Christians don't do such a good job following the teachings of Jesus. Didn't he command you to 'love you enemies',

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28.)

Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head." Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good (Romans 12:17-21).

Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates his brother is still in the darkness. Whoever loves his brother lives in the light, and there is nothing in him to make him stumble (1 John 2:9-10).



'feed the poor', 'cloth the naked'?


Luke 12:33. "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys."

Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would answer and say to them, "Let the man with two tunics share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise."

Mt. 5:42. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.


I don't remember anything about building megachurches, or private jets or mansions'

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)


Finally"


Mt. 25:31-46. "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. And all the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on His left.
Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You drink? And when did we see You a stranger, and invite you in, or naked, and clothe You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
And the King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'
Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'
Then they themselves will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?'
Then He will answer them, saying, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.' And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

DAMN, I like this guy! Your good.

Fun comparison. I never knew there were so many names for god. But I believe in all those gods. Ezekiel calls him the anointed cherub. Others call him Satan. He believes in Yahweh, too.

Is that FN a heavy rifle? Which scope did it come with? I saw them advertised on the back of some magazines. 300's weren't they? WSM or Win?