Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Poll: Do you hunt with a round in the chamber?

Wham! Blam!

Wham! Blam!




Casey

Coyote HUnter
"Nor is it hard to imagine situations when it might be best to be loaded and cocked with the safety off, especially in DG country."

Whoa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having followed wounded bears into puckerbrush willows and alders with an empty chamber and still managed to find time to slip one into the chamber I cannot fathom the mindset that would believe there would not be time to slip the safety off. That goes so far into the ozone I have to respond even though I bowed out of this style-over-substance pissin' match a long time ago.
art

Art, wise up my man.

The Dangerous Game we hunt around isn't as Dangerous as where some of these folks hunt.

Nor is our Thick Brush as Thick as theirs, or our Rough Country as Rough.

Also, our animals aren't nearly as wary.

In addition, we're more clumsy and prone to falls.

In summary, it's OK for you and I and a few others to hunt cold, but as we've learned here...doing so elsewhere would be useless, and a guy may as well stay on the couch.

Forgot to add a ..grin.. and disclosure that I can't believe I'm posting on this thread either...lol.

Remember:

You only need the chamber hot if you wearing blue or have blue tape on your muzzle.

Otherwise, you can hunt safely without fear of being seen be everything in the woods.

Damned blue.......

VA, you are trying to create an unholy alliance between the Blue Tape From Hell Thread, and the Loaded vs. Unloaded thread. May I suggest that should you succeed, the resulting beast might surge beyond control and consume even the most stouthearted amongst us?

Just a thought <g>.

-jeff

There are some, um, striking similarities between the two threads. Surely YOU have noticed that, JEFF.

To say it with Rooster Cogburn (John Wayne): Oh, a gun that's unloaded and cocked ain't good for nothin'"

But seriously:
In Germany it's against the law to climb a treestand with a weapon with a live round in the chamber. And when stalking through rough terrain it's also unlawful to have a round in the chamber.

Sitka deer -

When writing that my thoughts were not that one might wander around the countryside or go poking through the alders going after wounded game but rather that a hunter might find himself standing his ground in a defensive situation where the time spent fumbling with a safety might make a difference in the outcome.

In particular I was thinking of smallish (like the Ruger) three-position safety and gloved hands or a safety that has been subjected to moisture in freezing weather (I had one freeze up in the "safe" position one day). I was also thinking in terms of pack animals like wolves or hyenas or maybe a pride of lions. In such situations is is not a all hard for me to imagine I'd slip the safety to the fire position even if I was praying I never had to actually fire.

One might argue that such a situation is not "hunting", but that's a pretty fine point if the situation occurs in during a hunt.


P.S.

I freely admit I didn't give the whole idea a lot of thought as it quickly became apparent that I could not imagine all possible situations let alone evaluate them.

I also admit that such situations are likely to be rare in the extreme rather than commonplace, as are events like getting struck by lightning or winning the lottery.

CH
I stand by my statement in its entirety. Wearing gloves in any situation where dexterity is critical may be a contendable point, but "fumbling" with a safety is not... Having had the pleasure on more than one occasion of trailing wounded bears and having had two bears die touching me I think I have a clue what goes down. I also think I have had enough time thinking real hard about it to understand some, if not most, of the risks.

The risks inherent in a fool with a hot chamber and safety off greatly outweigh anything a bear might do. Bears usually have sense enough to try to escape.
art (back on sidelines slowly shaking his head)

Boy, for guys that claim to want this thread to die... ya'll sure keep applying the ol' electrodes to Frankenthread's heart and calling for lightning! :-)

Sitka Deer, I am impressed that someone who literally has wounded bears die touching them (are you implying that their last charge was stopped that close, or something different?) would go so far as to dive into the brush after a wounded bear without a round in the chamber. Now THAT is putting your money where your mouth is.

It also seems a bit nuts from here, but, whatever. You are many times the hunter I will ever be and I concede that.

But I will take your bait and am happy to debate this with any reasonable takers, which the present company appears to be, so here we go.

Looking at the above situation in it's entirety, I think a reasonable case can be made that what you are doing would be MORE dangerous in general, not less. Here's why. Let's pretend that it isn't you we are talking about here to remove any element of me vs. you here. Let's just imagine two groups of hunters, with a wounded bear in the brush, that might likely die so close to one of them that it touches them- in other words, these are "interesting times", as the Chinese curse goes.

Both groups are good gun handlers. One group dives after their bear chambered but with the safety on, and practicing good gun handling. The other dives in unchambered; I don't know if this means their safety is off or on as I've heard the "cold" guys express it either way. You tell me.

So the guys fan out. This is an inherantly dangerous situation in several ways, obviously. Ignoring the dangers from the bear or from getting shot inadvertantly through the brush by another hunter intentionally firing his weapon, we are left with the danger of an UN-intentional discharge.

I contend that it is at least debateable that in the heat of the moment, with a wounded bear charging, it is LESS safe to have to do a full action manipulation before shooting. Hands are flailing, bear is charging, etc. These are exactly the moments that guys say CRF rifles are needed for, because people make bad physical mistakes in these moments when required to manipulate the action of their rifle. Yeah?

The other group needs to raise their rifle and click the safety off and shoot. A simpler physical action.

I offer this in the spirit of debate. I'm not interested in slinging mud. I know that Sitka, ironbender, Coyote Hunter, etc are not either or I wouldn't bother typing this.

Thoughts?

-jeff

If you had a clue about how such things work I might take the bait... Ain't no fanning out and ain't no group gig...

Yes, two bears have come straight at me and died on my boot tops. One straight up and one previously wounded. Almost all die facing the other way.

Sitka, I'm not baiting. Please don't try to make this something it's not. You are the one saying you have bears dying at your boots without any further explanation; don't flame on me for trying to understand what's happening there.

If you are alone, why not have a round in the chamber? Is the astronomically small chance of hurting someone, somehow, far away with your chambered round (which would require BOTH poor gun handling AND your mechanical safety to fail)- is that minute chance worth slowing down your ability to stop a wounded bear in the brush while hunting alone? Especially considering that- ta da! poor gun handling or a mechanical failure of your rifle STILL PROVIDE that astronomically small chance for Mr. Murphy to sneak in once you chamber your round?

Seems if you have bears dying at your boots you are cutting things pretty fine.

-jeff

Art did you feel alive afterwards?


we all hunt with a hot chamber eventually.


when we decide to chamber is the debatable point.


seems a lot of folks chamber too early for my comfort level,

but certainly not Art!

At some point, Custer, you have to decide if the band of Redskins who chased you to the brink of the cliff is more dangerous than would be sliding over the edge, suspended only by a length of 1/4" rope long enough to make the 200 foot rappel to the bottom.



That's kind of how I view the little bit of metal which holds back a fully loaded firing pin. I worry less about hammers or firing pins which can be manually brought brought into action over a live round than a rifle which requires the firing pin to be loaded when a round is chambered.

Don't get hung up on bears or even DG.

My statement was "Nor is it hard to imagine situations when it might be best to be loaded and cocked with the safety off, especially in DG country." Perhaps I should have left off the "especially in DG country" part.

It seems that at that at some point even you turned the safety on your firearms to the "off" position or you likely wouldn't be posting here - so we are discussing the timing and circumstances of that action, not whether or not such an action is justified or foolish.


As I said, I don't recommend moving around with the safety off but if extreme danger was imminent I wouldn't stand around with the Cross Bolt Safety engaged on my .45-70, nor would I wait until the last possible instant to thumb the hammer back to full cock - too many things could go wrong, including forgetting to disengage the CBS or the thumb slipping off the hammer. At some point the "foolishness" of being fully prepared to fire is exceeded by the "foolishness" of being unprepared.


But as I said, don't get hung up on DG. My guess is that the majority of hunters have, at one time or another, intentionally hunted with a loaded chamber and the safety off. It is called "the shot not taken". In my own case there have been many incidents while varmint hunting (and we all know how dangerous prairie dogs can be) where I have slipped the safety off to take a shot then slipped it back on again without firing. A little slow on my part perhaps, but hardly foolish. When it comes to big game have been multiple instances where I have had game in my sights and was ready to fire, only to slip the safety back on again without doing so. Sometimes I was a little slow, sometimes I just decided not to shoot. I've long lost track of the number of times I've swung on a bird, safety off, only to slip the safety back on without firing a shot. If that makes me a fool, so be it.

Can you make a rifle with an empty chamber accidentally discharge through negligence, malfunction, or mishandling?

Can you make a rifle with a loaded chamber accidentally discharge through negligence, malfunction, or mishandling?

Which of those two previous questions is answered in the affirmative?

If the latter (and it will be), why risk it unless and until it is absolutely necessary?

Can you make a rifle accidentally discharge while manipulating the action to load a round with the safety off (which is how VAnimrod hunts)?

Is the "moment of truth" in hunting a very high-stress situation, therefore multiplying the chance of an accident of the above type?

Does good, safe gun handling trump all?

-jeff

And where, exactly, have I EVER said that I hunt with the safety off?

Safety on, chamber empty.

Game sighted, and my intention is to shoot, I chamber a round. When the crosshairs are on the target, the safety goes off. NOT BEFORE!

That you're making schit up, whilst still upset that I haven't ignored you and your stupidity on certain issues, shouldn't really surprise me.

As stated elsewhere, when you act like a dumbazz, you'll be treated like one. When you say stupid schit, you'll be called on it. The "don't flame me" schit don't fly, when you're advocating unsafe practices.

The "moment of truth" happens on hunting shows. Schit happens in the field, i.e. tripping, falling, crossing fences and blowdowns, etc. That's where a loaded chamber will get you or someone else killed.

And, yeah, gun safe gun handling trumps all.

Rule #3 of Gun Safety: Keep the gun unloaded, or a round out of the chamber, until ready to fire.

I sure thought I read a post of yours just the other day where you said safety was off, chamber was empty. Must have been someone else. If I can I'll dig it up. My apologies for misrepresenting your hunting practices.

And dude- chill! You CANNOT upset me. Even when you stoop to utter juvenile BS harrassment- which you have done repeatadly- it doesn't upset me. It barely cracks the annoying threshhold. In the time I've been here, all I've see you do is post insults and rude one-liners. Maybe I missed the part in your first 17,000 posts where you said something meaningful but as far as I (and trust me, a whoooole bunch of others) am concerned, you are not a serious person, just an agitator who likes to act tough to impress your boyz.

You are not a serious person and not worth getting upset over.

So chill.

-jeff