Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Preoccupation with Firearms

KC, I like the way you think........

I know of individuals who have purchased or traded their way into anywhere from 20 to 100 "elk rifles" over the last 30 + years. Most of these rifles end up getting experimented with at the range for a while, then traded off on something else. In other cases, those rifles get placed in the back of safe and they're forgotten about, while new "elk" or "all-around" rifles get added to the front row. Most of these rifles are seldom or never hunted with, and the way it works out, some of these guys have gone through 10 or more "elk" rifles for every bull they've actually put on the ground.

And I don't mean to sound too critical here, because in years gone by I've done the same sort of rifle recycling myself, waiting for the good ol' State of Confusion to generously throw me a bone and issue a resident elk tag via the drawing process.

I found that the best plan is to invest in one or two good and reliable rifles, stick with them, and spend the rest of your spare time working out, planning hunts, and hunting. If you can't draw a tag and hunt elk every year at home, put in for other states. Either way, the rifle preoccupation is an inane, resource-draining dead-end............

AD

Agreed, AD, and I've churned through too many rifles since 1999, no doubt.

HOWEVER, to me what settles it is when I get a "keeper". My .338 WIn Mag, in particular, is/was such a great rifle right out of the box that it makes a guy go hmmm... I can't find ANY reason to get rid of this one, or spend money dinking around with it, or whatever.

Problematic rifles are much easier to churn. What everyone needs is a couple of what Dober calls "honest" rifles, and when you get one, you need to hang onto that sucker!

-jeff

Hiya AD ...

Guilty as charged!!! Yep, you've described me perfectly. I've tried to get ahold of a couple rifles to do my hunting with but something always goes wrong with the plan, wind up with one that just won't shoot, got hunting season looming, and do some crazy trade that sets me back 5 years.

The current plan is a Seven XCR in 7mm-08 and a 700 XCR, probably in .375 but maybe a .338. I picked up the Seven last Friday, haven't shot it yet. The 700 is still down the road a ways.

We'll see if I can pull it off.

I can tell you that after 20+ years spastically trading equipment trying to get it right I'm burning out. I sure wish it'd all settle down. There are days I get so frustrated I'm ready to sell everything and buy a bow.

The closest to a solution I ever got was a few years back when I had a 7mm-08 in a stainles Seven ... shot good for 4 years, then I got stupid and fried the throat practicing offhand. About the same time I had a Ruger #1 in .375 ... supposed to do it all. 260 grain ballistic tips for elk, 220 grain hornady flat points loaded down to .38-55 speed for deer in the brush, cast bullets. I had it going pretty well then one shot I let the tip of the stock down too low and it crunched a tendon at the outer end of my collar bone. I was on my knees trying not to puke for a couple minutes. It hurt baaaaad. I took it to the gunstore and put it on consignment. Now I sure wish I'd waited about 3 weeks but man I was in a world of hurt. Since then none of my elk caliber rifles have shot well enough. Went through a couple Ruger 77 mk IIs in .338 that weren't quite minute of barn door accurate, a 700 LSS in .300 that wouldn't shoot, got a .338 RUM in the 700 XCR that I could not manage, it kept scoping me in the forehead ... hard. So ... that's how my quest goes.

You got the right idea, it just seems easier said than done ... or else I'm unlucky.

Tom

I wholeheartedly agree with your post KC. I like to shoot, but love to hunt. Don't get me wrong, I've a ton of respect for those of you with a wealth of ballistics and rifle performance experience and knowledge. But I see many folks who start from relative scratch getting way, way too wrapped up in the pro's and con's of various calibers and cartridges that, truth be told, would all be just dandy for elk. I've seen guys hunt with .25-06 on up and all do well. Half my big game battery is a .300 Ultra, the other half is a .270 Win. Most all the guys I know and hunt with use one rifle.

I know this is a family site, but I like the crude analogy of worrying about your elk rifle is like worrying about what condoms to throw in your pocket before going out tomcatting. (My experience is quite dated in this regard, but stay with me, it's a good analogy.) Yes, a little bit of thought goes into the choice. But there are way more things to worry about and challenges to overcome before you get to the point of using that item. And...the followup could range from easy to a whole lot of work.

I think time spent scouting is very well spent. I always tell people that I hunt all year, I just shoot the animals during their respective season. I think the very best thing a novice elk hunter can do is to find someone to take them with. I found that I needed to flounder around a couple years before the guys I knew would take me along. I know that's not possible for everyone, I'm just relaying my experiences. I think they just wanted to know I was serious.

I'd say select an area and get to know it well. Don't be shy about stopping and BS-ing with the other hunters you meet. Some cough up good information, some lie like a rug. You can usually pick out the good information from the bad.

SD

There are condoms called "magnums".

Uh... which caliber equals what condom?

Joke... just runnin' with superdave's (excellent) analogy a little.

-jeff

In a condom, I need a magnum. in a rifle, not that important. Have plenty that will work.

Or like last year I called in 3 bulls all of them to within 25 yards never saw a head but tips of horns parts of legs, if you can tell me how to hunt reprod where the only light is the sky I am open for those pointers because it doesn't matter what caliber or how fast your bow is you can't shoot what you can't see. Grin!!

ehunter, that's where you need that big magnum! Just aim where you think their body is, and shoot 'em right through the reprod.

If the thunder don't get 'em, then the lightning will!

:-)

-jeff

Or at least you could blast a big enough path to see what I missed You know shooting lanes...

That's how I hunt grouse. First barrel clears the brush. Second barrel misses the grouse. :-)

-jeff

_____________________________________
ehunter...
Hunting elk in the dense reprod timber sucks..and is by and large, a worthless endeavor.

You have to ambush them going in or coming out..or send your beaters in to flush them out..:).... otherwise, you'll only smell them, hear them and see parts but no decent shots..Also damned dangerous IF there are any other hunters in that stuff with ya..Jim

Jim, I have shot an elk almost every year in that stuff.Last year it was at 5 yds about. Not many hunters where I go though.I like it because it is exciting, one on one with the elk. In long range hunting like some guys do, it is all about being skilled at shoooting. In the nasty stuff it is not so much marksmanship/shooting skills as it is you stalking skills

Saddlesore, ALOT dpends on what sort of age the reprod has on it..whether I will get in there and hunt elk..:)

15-20 year old reprod has some visibility down low as the lower branches die...
Some of the newer reprod 'tree farms' are so thick that elk hunting could be done with a 12 gauge, moccasins and 0000 buckshot..:)

I've hunted and tracked thru that latter stuff..but usually so dense including the ground cover that hunting cannot be done easily..
I've killed some nice elk as they came out of the denser stuff we have here in western Oregon..Usually know their travelways and before you ever see them, you hear this rushing sound like waves breaking on the beach as they plow out of the stuff..Jim

What seems to have killed the area I hunted my first 4 seasons for elk, Tower Mountain in the NF John Day Wilderness area, is a combo of naturally reseeded tamarack reprod (it burned) combined with all the blowdown from the trees that died in the fire... you want to talk impenetrable! The elk will bed in the edges of it but that's about it.

It was very huntable as 2-4 foot high reprod, and before all the dead stuff fell down, but as 6-8 foot reprod, ferget it. Maybe when it gets to be 20 feet high and some lower brances die off, as Jim says, it'll hunt again...

One cool thing when the trees were more like 3 or 4 feet high was that when it snowed they'd get all white. Then when an elk would move through them, they'd knock it off, leaving green, and leaving a trail I bet you could see from orbit! That was nice.

I miss that area a BUNCH. My group has a lot of intel on that area so to speak, a lot of years hunting there. We've been flailing a bit the last couple years trying to find a new spot.

-jeff

Jeff, I think we've talked a bit about hunting traveling in & thru some of the denser stuff..

Nothing like a bit of pre season work with good hand held pruning shears to do two things:

Give us a way thru quietly( and almost dry) and ALSO give the blacktail and elk little corridors they also will gravitate to and use also..

It's all fun..but I have not found the Roosevelt elk spending much time in the reprod other than cover and a bit of rest when pressures are high during the rifle season..

The older reprod, with all the dead branches and thick layer of needles on the ground , will stay pretty dry even in really wet weather and even in windy weather, the elk like those areas as the reprod doesn't creak & groan like the older growth and they have some cover..
When they lay down , visibilty is pretty good..often over 60 yards and so they feel safe there..Jim

Agreed and I'm excited to see your area with you sometime, Jim! You heading over there this spring?

However, that said, I didn't communicate the scope of the "problem" at Tower Mountain. The reprod/blowdown is in sizes measured in the square miles... many square miles.

It pretty much shut the elk down (I think) there. Once it grew up/blew down past a certain point, they couldn't move through it any more. Not with any speed. They go into it to feed in the spring or summer (based on old sign) but don't seem to want to use it when they are under any pressure. Put it this way, there are saddles that old guys had made a career out of hunting, crossing points and so on... last time I was there I talked at lenght with one such gentleman I met watching a saddle he'd watched for over 30 years and pulled a bunch of elk out of. His words might have been the tipping point for me, at least, as far as deciding to hunt somewhere else.

I LIKE hunting the dense stuff for blacktail. it'd be fun to learn to hunt elk that way.

-jeff

Guys over here the big bulls don't leave the reprod till dark they just follow the herds and the young bulls in the clearcut until a cow comes into heat. You don't find the big bulls in hanging in the clear cuts very long. I am bowhunting and really when you get into some of those jungles they have open areas and water they can live in there all year. Plus you never see another hunter in there with you and well you can't even see your hands or or partner for that matter. It makes for close encounters as saddlesore said it can get exciting I might add there is more reprod than big timber.

I just about crap my pants when calling in a turkey... can't imagine calling in an ELK!!

-jeff

The elk over here alot of the times will show up quitely they will some times bugle as well but alot of times we will softly call and rake trees some times you hear a stick break or horn hitting a branch. We have had some come in blowing snot but they are lot more careful these days. Yes we have had some steaming moments when they get close but that is what makes it fun. We have found after bumping elk leaving we need to give them about 45 mins some times they will come in to see whos there but won't make a sound. The decoy helps us as well. We try to set it up so that is not completely visible.

My partner almost got stepped on by a bull making a bee line to a decoy a couple of years ago after calling we gave up and went to take a nap, in the middle of a hot afternoon the bull heard the calling and saw the decoy. My partner was laying down next to a brush pile and herd a thud as the bull stumbled or some thing he looked up and saw legs, the bull looked at him and ran around a bush pile and so my partner went the other way and missed him at 30 yards partly because he had his boots off and was standing on some black barries partly because he was in shock and still half a asleep. In the mean while 25 yards away I was snoozing and dreaming of elk go figure I never heard the bull take off or the shot. I honestly did not believe him until I saw the tracks and I could tell from his face he had a close encounter. From where he first saw him from his tracks to my partners boots was one stride. He was a big 5x6 bull we saw him again a couple of days later with some cows.

We will be going in to trim some trails this spring so that we can get around in the reprod. We have one area that looks like a cattle stall where the bulls hang out and catch the thermals and it is a reprod patch that is surrounded by cuts. Most people just hunt the open clearcuts and after day one or 2 the bulls are not there not will they answer a call except to say they are leaving.

KC: Doesn't deal with elk, but I remember this from a very old Readers Digest. "I can sit absolutlely motionless and silent beneath a hickory tree for 20 minutes. A gray squirrel can do the same for 21 minutes."