Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Preoccupation with Firearms

One reason you read so many threads on the subject is that there are so many people who don�t have the answer. No shame in that, as we all started at Ground Zero in our learning processes.

When I moved from the Midwest to Colorado I had never hunted deer, let alone elk. The Internet wasn�t as popular back then and certainly wasn�t as accessible as it is now. Instead of going online I did a lot of reading, compared a lot of ballistic tables and then asked my elk hunting mentor who also happened to be my State Farm agent and worked in the same building I did. He recommended a 7mm Rem Mag and that is what I went with for my first centerfire.

Sometimes the hardest part is finding them, sometimes the hardest part is getting them out � I�ve seen it both ways but I�ve never seen it where the choice of cartridge made any difference for me or my hunting partners. A .308 would have taken every animal I�ve ever shot.

That said, consider me one of those people that are preoccupied with firearms. I enjoy them for their own sake. Shooting them and developing hunting and target loads for them provides year-around pleasure. By contrast, hunting is an activity that is limited to a few days a year.

I think your right and its the off season so the rifle is the question at the moment. grin!

I think you guys in the NW have a completely different kind of thick growth. Where I hunt it has very seldom been logged. Most is al old growth original timber in Wilderness areas, or may have been timbered 100 years ago. Here the problem is blow downs . You can walk a 100 yds or more at times without ever touching the ground, but the elk can move through it like ghosts without making asound. Getting a shot is indeed difficult, but carrying elk quarters out a few hundred yards, 3-5 ft above the gound to where we can get the mules to is really tough. Sounds like the NW elk hunting is alot harder thanwhat w ehave here

NO I don't think its any harder it is different I have never hunted in Colorado but we have some blow downs in Eastern Oregon that get pretty thick and like you say it is a small step at a time and slow hunting.

The elk here will hang in the 5-12 feet reprod that is still open enough to allow food to grow but as it gets more mature it kills every thing out on the ground level. Then like Jim said they will move though it but not live in it. The elk use the reprod as a refuge in the 5-12 foot stuff. Once you get into it there are openings and old trails and skid roads. Alot of food along the creeks and in little meadows.

The problem is most of the area I hunt is private timber companies and they harvest the trees so there is very little old growth and the elk use the reprod like corn in the midwest. The older bulls can stay up wind of a clear cut and smell every thing going on in the cuts if the cows move they can just follow them on the edges. The bulls will feed in the cuts at night. We kept seeing these small rag horn bulls but never found any big bulls until we started hunting in the reprod more and then it hit us these bulls didn't mind the little bulls running with the cows until they went into heat and then they would run off the little guys. The majority of the breeding happens at night over here. Occasionaly you will see a big bull in herd but in our area there is a lot of bowhunters and we think they are just hiding out and following the cows.

We also don't have to deal with the elvation you guys are hunting in.

These older mature rosies have figured out the hide and not being so vocal technique pretty well. Big blacktails will also live in these reprods I think of them like huge cornfields in the midwest.

That is pretty interesting Ehunter.Public land bulls are pretty quiet around here too. I suspect it is from every one pretending to be a champion elk bugler and then going out and sounding like the biggest baddest bull in the woods. Guys run around and bugle like crazy with the idea they are scounting and locating the bulls. They even drive up and down the roads buglin. Some even use tape cassetes in thier trucks or on atv's. These bulls learn in one time when they come into a call,and then smell human to not do it again.They know the sound of every bull in the area and can tell when it is a fake bugle. Cows are starting to be leery also, and most bulls will leave the country with even a cow call.

Elk are also going nocturnal in feeding and breeding. It isn't until it is very cold with a good bit of snow that you start to see them more and more in the daylight.

Two things that drive the elk into the thick timber and hidey holes are that guys go into the timber only a few days before season, again thinking they are scouting. Heck,any elk in there leave for the next drainage. Or they set thier camp up in prime elk habitat start fires, clang on pots and pans, sight in thier rifles,run chain sawa,drive in tent stakes,etc. then wonder why they see elk sign a day or two old but no elk.

Another thing I see is elk hnaging out in lodge pole pine groves during the day. These trees are maybe 60 ft tall, maybe 8 inches in diameter, no lower limbs. There is no food except for maybe a few mushrooms( which elk love), very little water,mostly pine needle ground cover, very little cover, and you can see maybe a 100 yds, which means elk can see you too. It does not look like elk habitat and a lot of guys just blow though it, pushing the elk out the other end. I killed a little bull two years ago with a 44 mag carbine as a small herd were just walking through the lodge pole

One of the gun and hunting writers of yesteryear (I think it was Jack O'Connor, but I'm not certain) was asked by a reader who wrote in: "What is the best elk rifle for my part of the country?" To which the reply was: "Whatever rifle is in the hands of the best elk hunter in your part of the country."

I suspect many readers went scouting to find out what kind of rifle the person they perceived as "the best elk hunter" was carrying, but that was hardly the writer's point.

John Plute used a .30-40 Krag on the bull that was #1 for a century or so...but he kinda knew how to hunt elk.

FWIW...

DN

Boy you hit it on the head Saddlesore the elk unless your on a private ranch and or in the wilderness have heard it all. Here we hunt behind gates you either walk, bike, ride or horse in. So the majority of the guys walk the roads and call I swear the elk can tell when on your road now. Don't get me wrong there are a few elk killed every year that way but the bigger bulls are not giving up that easy. We have had the best luck although we have gone elk less for the last 2 years in a row a new record for us, not even calling until we get into the crap and then softly calling not the full out CD sounding tape, really elk calling is not about sounding pretty its about knowing what to say and when to shut up.

We found a new area last year by accident. Normally we would walk the 3 or 4 miles up the hills to hunt elk with the theory to get away from the people. Well as bikes get more popular it is getting harder to 1 beat people in 2 to get away from them. So the last 2 weekends we called in 2 bulls I think it was the same bull twice but within a quarter of mile of the gate I think all the pressure up on the ridges had moved the bulls down closer to the bottoms and the majority of the people were walking by them we found a good sized heard by hearing them walking cross a creek. We were hunting from a 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile from the gate. We started poking around and we found a ton of fresh elk sign and all the rubs we couldn't find on top were down on the lower ridges so that is why we were not finding those bulls on top.I think those bulls were hiding out in the bottom to lower quarter of the ridge and walking up to feed with the girls at night. We would get you see you later calls early in the morning at first light but no real response and we would see a lot of cows with a few small bulls that had no interest in talking other than to occasionally bugle to see if they could. Those bulls were hanging out down lower the light bulb finally went on. We thought we were getting old and lazy but maybe we are getting lazy and smarter grin!! Occasionaly us old dogs can learn new tricks

My own Roosevelt elk area 30 miloes east of the pacific ocean, which I have hunted successfully for bulls for 16 years, is walk in only..No gates..They are not needed as I couldn't ride a good saddle mule into the area...let alone a bicycle, quad, motorcycle or 4x4 veh.:)

It's that steep, broken and thick.There is some old growth, down timber, old burns, older and newer reprod, and down toward the creeksheds from the 2000' elevated hills and ridges, ALOT of brambles, devils claw, salal,ferns, banana slugs..:)
All of it is travel hunt up from the Forest roads and pack down if you kill an elk.

The Roosevelts in there don't bugle much at all...And IF they do, the denseness and wetness absorbs their calls so what might sound like a bull 1/4 mile away is in reality..less than 200 feet away..
The elk ALL know each other's voices..as they live and die in herds which on the topside might be 60 animals, but usually less than 20.
Listening helps, but calling never has worked effectively for me with the Roosevelt bulls in that country.
More like hunting blacktail deer..they go from bed to breakfast and calving grounds and water in less than 1000 acres unless extremely pressured..Jim

NOTE: And they NEVER need to migrate even for the worst weather..they live in that country 365 days a year for their whole lives..FULL time residents, little or no pressure..all the things they need right at hand..
For part time hunters in that country, we are always playing 'catch up'..they know the country and every inhabitant from rodent to birds so much better than we can ever know it..Jim

Jim.WOW 2000ft elevation. I would have to dig a hole 6000 ft deep to do that . I bet even my old crapped up lungs would work at that elevation.

That sounds as bad as my old whiteatil hunting days growing up in PA. Hunting in laurel thickets

Jim I agree the elk are not as vocal you need to be close in and call softly. One of the bulls I called in from a 1/4 of mile last year he was plain hot the best kind we could him coming thought he crap all the way and he was on a bee line he winded me at under 20 yards and I could not see enough of him to get a shot.

The biggest bull I called in last year was a nice 6x6 and we called in to about 40 yards of my partner by cow calling we could see him all the way in he came along a old skid road he was about 125 yards out and kind of trailing along some cows that went into the reprod, but he was in no hurry and he could not see the cow so he was very weary. We did not get a shot as he got to the 40 yard mark and turned and left?

Another time I was calling into some over grown brush reprod draws just cow calling softly he grunted and started up the hill he had a couple of cows were talking like crazy so I tried to sound like a calf and give the excited calls the cows I think pulled him up but it was thick and I all could see and hear was the cows talking and I could hear them walking. Well they get up to a old landing all I could see was one cow at about 30 yards I could see her head and the tip of the bulls horns and part of his butt at under 25 yards he grunted a few times and we were all on hold they could not see a elk he was not rut committed and he was not leaving those cows unless I looked pretty good to him. I dropped down a few yards but coming down on elk and crashing though is not good they eventually dropped back down and he gave a come on over here girl bugle and they then moved back down we did try to follow but the wind busted us and that was that.

These bulls are getting very weary and they are looking for elk before they commit we did call in 3 spikes in the 3 point area only area go figure. One of the spikes came in to us at less than 7 yards he was young but it was cool. He was very lonely

What simply amazes me and I am not sure how many people know it but these elk remember elk calls if you bust them and want to call them the next time you had better use a different call and they have you pin pointed to exactly where are standing from a long ways away.

Ive consistantly seen guys make the mistake of camping in a convienient camp site and hunting on foot in the immediate area of camp for the season durration, not useing glassing to cover the areas,not calling or bothering to scout thru the area. at the minimum you need to check carefully each canyon or series of canyons in each drainage ,only long enought to find the herds or be reasonably sure they are not currently there, then if you don,t find them, move to the next drainage, and repeat the process, again several times untill you locate the current eLK herd location, remember theres usually a couple herds and all of them can easily cover miles every day, calls can be helpful but they are not 100% effective and swapping canyons for days at a time is NORMAL..FOR BOTH EFFICIENT HUNTERS AND THE ELK,...... UNLESS your familiar with the area and the ELKs escape routes under pressure, and where you can reasonably expect to place yourself at those locations,. letting the other guys do the leg work to push them past you, but that usually takes many years of familiarity with that one area and scouting many dozens of sq miles , and even that won,t prove 100% a sure deal, a single bunch of ELK can easily swap between a dozen drainages over a few weeks

ehunter...
I have posted this observation / analogy before concerning humans attempting to call in Roosevelt elk in their own close cover country:..:)

IMAGINE...

You and the wife and all your kids and relatives-friends are sitting at the dinner table....and you hear what sounds like 'one of your kids or your wife's voice calling ' you to come and see, help etc from downstairs..

Your first response may be to get up fast and go downstairs..but then you see them all sitting near you at the table..
( that's assuming the caller can speak 'elk' very well at all)

IF you DO go downstairs...wouldn't you be wary( and as a human( armed..:)??

The Roosevelt elk all know each other well..and except for a few satelite bulls or broken up herds, they pretty much know where each other are also..
I don't call much at all these past 15 years..I listen, move, work to intercept them...and kill them tho..:) Jim

________________________________________________________________
Saddlesore..:)

Now don't be laughing & poking' fun at us relative 'flat landers' who kill elk in western Oregon & Washington..:)

I did 20 some years hunting RM elk from 6K-11K elevations in central AZ & NM years ago..

I lived there and worked there tho so didn't think much about it at the time..:)

Did notice that when hunting javelina down nearer to sea level, I'd have no problem running after them and finding them..

Same with the Roosevelt elk up here..We've run around them and after them a few times until they were stopping to look back and wondering:

( like Butch & Sundance when the Pinkertons were chasing them)

'WHO ARE THESE GUYS'???...:)

Killed several nice branch bulls who were just too tired to go much farther and stopped to look back..:)Jim

340 what you say is true you need to spend your time hunting where the elk are not where you have seen them I agree. Not sure where you hunting at in our area the elk feed in a loop and
will usally cycle back though if not too interupted in a few days. Rosies don't run out of the country like rockies one of our tatics we used to do was try to scare them out of a cut on purpose and follow them into the timber they might run a hundreds yards and settle down and then by cow calling like a lost calf you can get alot of elk to come to help you. Rockies will and can run for miles if spooked don't ask how I know that Also most of the feed for the areas we hunt are in the clear cuts and they will move in and out last year we would see the same herd about every 4th day in this one cut not sure where they were at on the other days.

Jim calling still works it is not like it was years ago these elk are very weary like you say. Alot of elk will drop in when you calling not making any sound at all just to see who dropped into their area. That is one reason raking early in the season is so good they Young bulls that we call rovers will sneak into see what bull it is before they make sound especially if they have been called in before or just got their lunch handed to them by another bull. I watched a rag horn 3 point one time run out a 5 point much bigger bull I think just because the kid had no fear and acted like he was the stud of the mountain. Some satalite bulls are on the move all the time once the rut starts and a cow call when bring them, lickety split same as a spike that has been run out by a heard bull they like company and spikes are down right lonely unless they have some other junior bulls hanging out with them or if a young bull is with some cows he will move off asap if you bugle to him he wants no part of another bull. He may not even know what he is doing yet but he has big plans. Like you say it is all about how and when and what to say to them...

One thing we do differently is we use the sound of a bugle to help locate (not to call them in) where you have already located them maybe your area is more isolated were we hunt the herds get bumped quite a bit. We can glass a lot of country and see elk but getting a mile to them with the wind right is a challenge a elk can walk up down a canyon in 5 mins where it might take us a hour to get there. Therefore if we can locate them in the dark it gives us a head start don't get me wrong we don't try to get into a bugling contest a single bugle is all you need. Man we can talk hours about theories and ideas and experiences

I like your therory about the dinner table we agree we just never put into those terms. Bottom line it is easier to get them to come up vs getting them to come down I agree.

ehunter, Some of how well calf, cow or bull calling works is the time of year..the season( archery or rifle) and how close the elk are to breeding season.

I've had better luck hucking bulls or pouring half a canteen of water out on a flat rock with a few cow call mews than calling Roosevelt bulls in close with a bugle, squeal or grunts....:)

BTW, hucking elk involves chucking hand sized rocks so they mimic a bulls footfalls or tossing and breaking branches and ferns when you want that darned branch bull to come in the last 30 yards for a good archery shot in close cover....:)
The cow mewing and water on the flat rock should be self explanatory..:)Jim

Nope that is another tip to try I have heard about the water. See its the little things that will help to make a difference.

I know a guy once who would call and tie a rope to a reprod tree and jerk on it to get the bull to go to that tree to give him a broad side shot he claims to have killed 2 elk doing that and it makes sense.

I agree with you walking around in the woods blowing a call is not going to work. All your doing is educating the elk pretty dam quick and they have been getting schooled for a long time now. I will continue to carry my calls and maybe this year I will get a clear lane to shoot in? Or that big old dude will take a step or too closer. We have killed plenty of elk but we learn something new every day. I will also try to sneak in when ever possible quitely what ever will work every elk is a individual and they all react diffently. We as hunters have to be aware of that and act accordling that is what makes it so much fun about the time you think I know what to do they do some thing different.

ehunter..
Hunting with a good partner..close together ...when you know how each thinks and have some good hand signals and plans... works really good for elk and deer in close cover..or bears, lion..or men for that matter.:)

Such a close friend and partner for the hunting isn't easy to find or develop these days tho.

Over the years, we've tricked and sidetracked and distracted many a nice mulie, blacktail buck or bull elk by teaming up on them intelligently..
One watches..one kills and stalks..OR one walks and the other watches and waits..OR one calls and shakes the brush, rattles or scrapes or calls..and the other waits for the killing shot..
Variations on the above are almost endless..

When all is said and done, no matter what firearm or weapon we may carry..the only hope we have is to out-think the native critters...outmaneuver them..anticipate what will fire them up and how they will move and BE THERE..

Think about that..and IF you don't have one yet..find or develop-train a good partner for the close cover hunting and killing..

TWO can butcher and pack out easier than one also..:) Jim

Yep I am fortunate enough to have had the same hunting partner for 30 years we went to college together. He is the better shooter so we try to set him up and I do the calling. It has worked well for the last 30 years we think alike We did not get a elk the last 2 years because we have been shooting only bulls but after last year we are rethinking our needs like having a freezer full of meat instead of just deer.

ehunter...Not sure what part of Oregon you fellows hunt...but sounds like you have a good 'team'..:)
IF the unit you want to hunt is a bull only unit...then you better find the bulls and bear down on the hunting IF you want to put elk liver and backstraps in the skillet and meat in the freezer..:)

Good luck..and good planning and execution for your hunting this year, Jim
PS:
I'll kill a nice fat bull this year..like I do every year..just trying to figger out how to make the pack out easier..:(