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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
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Gadfly, we have just had four years of almost unprecedentedly low unemployment rates....so it hasn't been a national problem yet.
Of course there are regional disruptions.....I didn't notice the rest of the country getting all weepy eyed and crying for higher oil prices when oil prices collapsed in the early 80s and devastated the economies of Oklahoma, Texas and Louisiana, or calling for a tariff to protect US oil companies.
We're supposed to be capitalists, for heaven's sake, and used to think we could outcompete anybody. And we faced a world of protectionist trade competitors then, too.
Adapt, improvise, think......
Do I have a notion for how to revitalize rust belt heavy industries that are not globally competitive....no, I don't.
I'm not a dinosaur veterinarian.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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The fun part will begin when China doesn't need the American market any longer and nationalizes all of the industry that America has set up for them over there.
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Campfire Member
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you're babbling, man
must be shell-shock from all those terrorist attacks you've suffered through since 9-11 Yeah...the same number of terrorist attacks on our soil during the Clinton administration since the 1st WTC bombing and the end of his terms...ZERO. Since embassies and US warships are legally US soil you're wrong even by your narrow definition, the two African embassies and the USS Cole were attacked under Clinton. Plus the truck bombing of the Khobar Towers barracks in Saudi Arabia. You really are clueless, man. Steve, To be fair if you want to count the Khobar Towers then you need to count the Riyadh compound. Piper
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I assume you're talking about poultry or beef processing plants, or something like that. Working conditions in such places will never be great, but they could be a lot better than they currently are without significant expense.
Last edited by Gadfly; 06/02/08.
ego operor non tutela
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Bristoe,
If they stop trading with us it would be a blessing,do away with most of our trade deficit other than oil. You can't complain about the trade deficit,and complain that it may come to an end,not logical.
But then most of the dope induced ramblings you spew are not any better.
Britt
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
Bristoe,
If they stop trading with us it would be a blessing,do away with most of our trade deficit other than oil. You can't complain about the trade deficit,and complain that it may come to an end,not logical.
But then most of the dope induced ramblings you spew are not any better.
Britt
Shalom to you too,...
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2007
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Mr Antlers,
It does appear that you are a Troll plant from moveon.liberal or some such nonsense.
When are you going to post about elk hunting or handloads?
We see you for what you are,nice try. Are you gay,muslim,or a proabortion nut? You are so passionate,it has to be one of those hard core true believer things.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
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I assume you're talking about poultry or beef processing plants, or something like that. Working conditions in such places will never be great, but they could be a lot better than they currently are without significant expense. Actually it is the petroleum/petrochemical/oil refining buisiness. It is booming like never before.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
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you're babbling, man
must be shell-shock from all those terrorist attacks you've suffered through since 9-11 Yeah...the same number of terrorist attacks on our soil during the Clinton administration since the 1st WTC bombing and the end of his terms...ZERO. Since embassies and US warships are legally US soil you're wrong even by your narrow definition, the two African embassies and the USS Cole were attacked under Clinton. Plus the truck bombing of the Khobar Towers barracks in Saudi Arabia. You really are clueless, man. OK...if you're gonna 'reach' and distort, something 'your guy' Bush is good at...I suppose that since someone sent weaponized anthrax to some senators and news outlets ONE MONTH AFTER 9/11, and killed 5 Americans and sickened 17 more, that 'it' could technically be considered a 'terrorist attack on our soil since 9/11'! At least it was actually 'on our soil', as the statement was originally made by another poster. Clueless? That's 'your guy'...Bush. It describes him in one word.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire Regular
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Steve, as bad as the oil bust was in the 80's, and it was bad (I knew a lot of people in Tulsa with Geology and Engineering degrees working in convenience stores) it was a relatively short term event compared to what is going to happen with the decline of manufacturing. It is not just a simple matter of switching to a different job sector. What does the service sector service? The bulk of the demand for the upper level service sector (heavy construction, engineering and even a significant portion of legal services) is manufacturing. No manufacturing; no need for those services, and growth in natural resource extraction will not make up for the loss in manufacturing. I am not much impressed with the current employment numbers you cite. Stability of employment is only being maintained by the current surge in natural resource extraction, and that, as we both know, can shut off almost overnight, like it did in the early '80's. That is why I was asking you what the end game was. Where are we going to be 20 years down the road?
ego operor non tutela
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Yeah...the same number of terrorist attacks on our soil during the Clinton administration since the 1st WTC bombing and the end of his terms...ZERO. What? Oklahoma's Alfred P. Murrah federal building doesn't count as US soil? Is that the new [color:#3366FF][b][u]Obama Geography[/u][/b][/color] that they're teaching the kids now'days?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive." - C.S. Lewis
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
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No offense, but 25 years is a pretty long term crisis.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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Yeah...the same number of terrorist attacks on our soil during the Clinton administration since the 1st WTC bombing and the end of his terms...ZERO. What? Oklahoma's Alfred P. Murrah federal building doesn't count as US soil? Is that the new [color:#3366FF][b][u]Obama Geography[/u][/b][/color] that they're teaching the kids now'days? Geeze, how about the D.C. sniper and the School shootings. Man you and Steve are really reaching. Piper
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411 |
Piper, you think calling bombing two embassies, attacking a ship and blowing up a barracks full of troops terrorist attacks on the US is reaching?
What exactly would YOU call a terrorist attack on the US if your embassies, ships and troops aren't an attack on the US?
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Campfire Member
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Steve you're reaching when you count those, which should be counted but don't count the attacks that have occured while Bush has been in office. Do you wish to count the attacks on humm Vees?
Is that too hard to understand?
Piper
Last edited by Piper1; 06/02/08.
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I don't consider the petroleum industry to have been in "crisis" for the last 25 years. No one that I knew that lost their job in the early '80's has remained unemployed until the present petroleum boom. They all got jobs in different sectors, some of them much better jobs. And, of course, the petrochem compaies did not collapse (though there was a good bit of consolidation).
Last edited by Gadfly; 06/02/08.
ego operor non tutela
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2008
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Mr Antlers,
It does appear that you are a Troll plant from moveon.liberal or some such nonsense.
When are you going to post about elk hunting or handloads?
We see you for what you are,nice try. Are you gay,muslim,or a proabortion nut? You are so passionate,it has to be one of those hard core true believer things.
As opposed to a Jerry Fallwell type heterosexual, who wants a Constitutional Amendment that says 'marriage is between one man and one woman'...how insecure can one be? As opposed to a Pat Robertson 'christian', who is so greedy that he went into a gold-mining venture in Liberia with Charles Taylor...just think 'blood diamonds'. I guess all those checks, money orders, and love offerings weren't enough...he found time to do business with a butcher. As opposed to a self-righteous anti-abortion nut who holds up large photographs of a bloody, dead fetus in a crowd that includes small children, who are not responsible for this and shouldn't be exposed to this violent content. They hold these photos up for all the children to see...hypocrites who care more about an unborn child than the kids who are standing right in front of them. No thanks. The truth is what it is.
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411 |
Gadfly, you're right of course that that particular oil crash was only about five or six years long....which seems like a lot longer if you're in it, I can assure you. Changed my legal specialty from oil and gas law to commercial bankruptcy.
I've been hearing about the decline of heavy manufacuring in the US since I was a small boy in the early 60s.....
Predicting the end game would require a crystal ball.....I mean, who would have predicted 25 years ago the extent to which the internet would come to dominate both commercial and private life?
Some similarly unexpectedly important innovation may shuffle the whole economic deck. The emerging markets of China and India are properly seen as opportunities....hundreds of millions of new consumers....find something they need (or you can convince them they need ;)) and sell it to them.
I don't think the entrepreneurial spirit is dead in the US....we're still smart, creative, competitive people who need not fear global competition. I wish we would show more initiative in litigating against protectionist countries under the WTO, but tariffs won't turn back the clock to the time after the War when we were the only intact industrial collosus in the west.....that was a happy historical accident.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Campfire Tracker
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"I respectfully disagree...he's done his damndest to drive this country into the ground. His administration has been the most crooked, corrupt, and treasonous in my lifetime. And I personally believe Bush is a puppet, a moron, a liar, a thief, and a mass murderer. It will take our country decades to recover, if we ever can, from his presidency. His legacy will include being a leadership that answered to nobody but itself!"
All these kind words coming from a person that doesn't like being called names or told that he truly is full of chit. You whine about not being able to carry on a decent debate here; but I challenge you to see how long a conservative poster would be tolerated at Huffingtonpost or DailyKos. Moving right along here..I see by the above quote that you think GWB is the equivalent of the anti-Christ and that he willfully, joyfully, and intentionally has tried to bring this nation down. You and your hypocrisy really slay me. If he and his ilk are in it just for the oil $$$$$$ would it makes sense to destroy the goose that lays the goleden egg? Your are no more than a liberal, deluded troll; one of the "true believers" ; one of the pod people from the far secular/progessive left and it is your kind that wants to bring this nation down and set up a socialist state empowered by a one-world government. You are to be pitied. And defeated at every turn.
Qtip Soli Deo Gloria!
"It's not a matter of legislating morality; it's a question of whose morality gets legislated"
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Campfire Kahuna
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OP
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
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In essence, he was a child left behind!!
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails. William Arthur Ward
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