Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 458 Winchester Load Development Results

I've also seen articles recently how many professional hunters like seeing there clients showing up with .416s or .458 win mag but once you hit the .458 lott they see alot of flinching going on,this wouldn't help with proper bullet placement. I'd rather make a good shot than try to compensate for abad shot.This was from Peter Barnard PH from a article in guns and ammo.

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Zimbabwe PH Buzz Charlton, who specializes in elephant hunting has a great DVD out entitled "Hunting the African Elephant."

He shows many elephants being shot and shows great info on shot placement and describes many of the shots as they are seen on the DVD. A refrain heard often is, "If the hunter had been using a rifle that shot a 500gr bullet, this elephant would have dropped..." And one where a tuskless cow charges and Buzz narates, "Thankfully the hunter was using a (Can't recall the cartridge but the rifle was a double) shooting a (Can't recall but it was a big bullet)..." as the elephant, drops and skids within a few yards of the hunter's feet. The elephant wasn't dead, just knocked down and the hunter killed it with his second shot.

Buzz uses a 416 Rigby, but I have heard that he was switching to something larger. There was one scene where Buzz shoots a charging cow and misses the brain but turns the charge, the elephant does not drop and his narative goes, "...if I had been using a rifle with a 500gr bullet, this cow would have dropped..."

So, at least one very experienced pro doesn't think the 416's shooting 400's is really good elephant medicine as far as knock down effect or stopping effect.

On 500gr vs. 450gr solids out of a 458wm, well I have used both 500gr Woodleighs at 2050fps (two elephants) and at 2145fps (~ four elephants) and the 450gr North Fork flat nose solid at a modest ~2200fps (~six elephants), loaded for regulation and not ultimate velocity and not every shot has been a perfect brain shot. Total of twelve elephant. I can see no difference in the striking effect or knockdown effect of the Woodleighs at 2145fps and the North Forks at 2200fps. There is a huge improvement with the NF's and the Woodleighs at 2145fps over the Woodleighs at 2050fps, which I think are close to marginal for elephants.

Regarding performance on buff, the Woodleighs are about perfect at either speed, the flat noses penetrate a bit more than required. I've never shot a buff with a soft. Shot four buff total.

Out of a bolt 458wm rifle, I think the 450's are the go to bullet. Another 100fps are available over what has proven really great in my rifle, whats not to love about that.

When speaking of 200yds, well, that isn't 458wm range for me since my 458wm has only express sights. But 100yds or so is still express sight range and there isn't enough drop to worry about even at the speeds I'm shooting with either the 450's or 500's. I see no reason to shoot buff at any range past maybe 50yds max, at least in the terrain of the Zambezi valley. Elephant range is well inside of that and hopefully between 10 and 15yds. So I'm happy to live with express sights only.

If your 458wm had QD scope mounts, it would surely do fine for any game out to 200yds or so, which in my book is plenty of range. For a second lighter rifle, I use a 375H&H shooting 300gr softs and solids. Should there be an issue with my 458wm, the 375H&H is legal but marginal for elephants and fine buff medicine. Trajectory of the 375H&H out to 200yds is fine as well. A fellow from out west who is more accustomed to longer ranges might find he would like a flatter trajectory for some of the antelope, but I'm no long range shooter and 200yds is damned far for me.

JPK

I have a friend out east in New Brunswick, who worked at The Rift Valley Academy in Kenya since the early sixties until his retirement a couple of years ago. Up until hunting was shut down in Kenya, he hunted elephant each year and took some 60 to 80 pounders. His rifle was one of the original M70s "African", with 25" tube, I believe. He used nothing but Winchester factory 500-grain solids. He never reported any kind of difficulty or failure. I believe they were advertised at 2130 fps, or thereabout, and were RNs. He shot a lot of eles and financed his trips, with family, back and forth to Canada every three of four years. Our two families were close back then. I recall many of his accounts. He also killed many buff with the softs and solids.

I shoot a 458 Win in a CZ550 and it will likely never see Africa. But, I know what it's capable of ballistics wise. It's now loaded with 350TSXs at 2700+fps for bear and moose.

JPK: Your posts have made a lot of sense, along with Phil Shoemaker and John Wood. What I fail to comprehend is all the excitement over the Lott which exceeds the Win by less that 100 fps with the same slugs, while the 458 Win today is easily capable of 2200 fps from 500-grainers in 24" barrels and the right powders. And, in no way are the pressures excessive or the loads severely compressed. In my CZ I can easily match the Lott if wanted with handloads.

CZ550,

Richard Harland and Ron Thomson, both Parks Rangers in Rhodesia used the 458wm and the Winchester solid ammo and reported no issues with the ammo. They both did quite a bit of culling work. Between them they accounted for near 10,000 elephants, mostly cows, but many bulls as well. No flys on the 458wm or the Winchester solids! (BTW, both have published several books on their experiences, the ones that I've read have been great reads and informative as well.)

I wrote this this morning, "Out of a bolt 458wm rifle, I think the 450's are the go to bullet. Another 100fps are available over what has proven really great in my rifle, whats not to love about that." And this is true, but the introduction of the flat nose steel jacketed Hornaday makes me want to add, "450gr flat nose mono solids, or the 500gr flat nose Hornaday steel jackets solids are the go to bullets..."

JPK

Since originating this topic, I killed my first buffalo in the Zambezi Valley. I loaded a "soft point" (Barnes 450 grain TSX) in the chamber and 450 grain monolithic flat point solids in the magazine for follow on shots. Both attained a muzzle velocity of 2250 fps without pressure signs. A solid, fired into the buff's rear, was later found in its shoulder. That's about 6 feet or so of penetration. That's all anyone needs.

IndyCA35;

Congrats! And do we look for pics?

That's awesome penetration!

CZ550:

Give me a few days to figure out how to post them after I get caught up with my job etc.

JPK<
I had to smile when I read this after the discussions we have had over the proper weight for a rifle in a given caliber. I have a Lott that only weighs 8.65# with scope. I tend to save it for the 300 to 350 grain loads for pigs ect it is still pretty snappy.
I do agree that the lott is the way to go. I have shot .458 factory back when it first came out that didn�t make 1850 over a coronagraph and felt like it had a slight hang fire situation. The new ammo is much better and the powders available today are much better than back then. I probley wouldn�t hesitate to use a load like Hornady�s �Heavy Magnum� at a advertised 2260. I still would be happier with a Lott.
Bill

Indy,

What load were you using for the TSXs?

As you know, I'm a 458wm fan. If you've got one, you've got more than enough, especailly with a good reload. Mine shoots 500's at 2145fps and isn't loaded anywhere near max, and that load works very well with ellephants.

But if your building a rifle, it might as well be a Lott.

Rifle weight is proportional. a 9 1/2 - 10lb 458wm is about rifle in my book. But if your going to use Lott loads in your Lott, it ought to go 10lbs.

A 450/400 9lbs, a 416 9- 9 1/2... A 375H&H over 9lbs wights more than it ought to....

First, I will caution EVERYONE to work up to my load in YOUR rifle. It showed no pressure signs in my post-64 Model 70 but might in some other rifle.

I used new cases, Federal 215 primers, and 72.0 grains (I weigh every charge) of AA2230 with either the 450 grain TSX or the 450 grain North Fork flat-nosed solid. Velocity chronographed 2250 with both.

Another caution: North Fork warned that flat-nosed solids can cause feeding problems in some rifles. They didn't in mine.

2250fps with the North Fork flat nose solids would be exellent elephant medicine, or for anything else deserving a solids.

JPK

Indy,

Thanks for the pics and the report on your Zim safari. Enjoyed it very much.

In less than 2 wks I head north for 16 hrs for my moose hunt. 4 to 4 1/2 hrs to Sudbury to meet my partner. My van will stay there and my gear will be transferred to his 1-ton. We pull a camper, ATV, etc, for another 12 to 14hrs, to a spot we've been to a few times before, about 1hr north of Thunder Bay. We set up camp there and will spend the next week hunting a bull. I have the tag but we each can hunt over my tag as long as we stay in the same general area and in radio contact. We can also take a calf if the opportunity presents itself. But that will be an afterthought.

My primary rifle will be the CZ550 in 458 Win loaded with the 350TSX at around 2700 fps. I was at the range today and sighted it at about +2" at 100 yds and it's only - 8.3" at 300 yds. That's flat shooting, and very pleasant to shoot, I might add. As a backup, I'll probably take my 300 Win Mag with a synthetic stock for any really nasty weather. It's loaded with 190 Hornady's at 3065 fps. We also have bear tags and there are some good ones in that area. He will take a couple of his many 35s(You can check him out at 35cal.com).

Will report when we get back from our Northern Ontario "safari".

I often read that AA 2230 is the powder of choice for the .458 Winchester, but I also read the disclaimers and primer popping stories. Can anyone share their AA 2230 powder recipies for 500 grain bullets for the .458 Winchester? It would be appreciated.

Thanks Indy.

Of course, load development starting low and working up is very important. The problem I have found is that there is very little information available on TSX bullets. The Barnes manual only lists data for 1 or 2 powders per bullet.

For load data for 500gr bullets refer to the Hornaday manual. The 500gr Hornaday steel jacketed solids (new flat nose version) are beginning to earn an excellent reputation in Africa. I've heard that the soft point is still too soft though, so some other alternative might be better for a soft. I use Woodleigh softs and they have performed well when I have used them.

For solids I use the 450 North Fork flat nose and the 500gr Woodleigh solids. Both work well and will do the job, but the North Forks provide the greater penetration. My 500gr solids run 2145fps and the 450 NF's run ~2200fps.

My 500gr solids load is a medium load of AA 2230 in the Hornaday manual, to which I was referred by Woodleigh. It has proven more than adequate for elephants or buff.

AA 2230 has proven temperature insensative and there have been no issues with the powder in high heat, well above 100*.

My load was pressure tested and proved well below max.

I stopped giving actual loads publicly over the internet after some fellows swapped bullets without starting lower and working up. If you PM me I'll give details, but really, the Hornaday book is a great source for 458wm data.

JPK

ODay450,

I don't think you intended to say what you did: "The Barnes manual only lists data for 1 or 2 powders per bullet." Actually, they list 6 powders for each of the 4 bullets designed for the 458 magnums.

I use the 350 TSX, but they only list that for the Ruger No.1 in 45-70. There's no reason not to use it in a 458 magnum, however.
But I have loaded the 450 X, the predecessor to the 450 TSX.

As mentioned by JPK, Hornady's manual is tops.

albertan,

Read the very first post of this series. I have fired some 500 grain Barnes monolithic solids at a chronographed velocity of 2200 fps with the same load I use to get 2250 with the 450 grain bullets. No noticeable pressure signs, though obviously the psi would be higher than with 450s.

Watch out for "maximum loads" in loading manuals with this caliber. As detailed in that post, I fired a shot loaded one grain under the maximum and got a ridiculously high velocity with a sticky bolt lift and marks on the case head.

There is no reason to try for higher than 2200 with a 500 grain bullet. 2150 will work just fine.

Also note JPK's warning about substituting one bullet for another and using the same loading data.

I used 450s on my recent dangerous game safari in Zimbabwe because (a) there is a lot of evidence that the flat point shape allows a 450 solid to penetrate deeper than a 500 with the traditional round nosed shape, (b) it recoils noticeably less, (c) Barnes TSX bullets don't come in 500, and I wanted both solids and softs to shoot to the same place, and (d) if one is worried about powder compression, which I am not, the 450s are a little less compressed than the 500s.

My loads are slightly compressed, but much less compressed than some shooters use for long range competition at Camp Perry.

I don't know what disclaimers you are referring to and have never experienced or heard of primer popping with AA2230. Maybe someone was trying to eke out the last bit of "high velocity," a practice not recommended with this cartridge.

There is a 500gn TSX. But for most 458 magnums it's way too long and eats up too much powder space. Terry Wieland complained of that even for his 458 Lott.

But, there are at least a couple of exceptions to that. 1)The 460 Weatherby, and 2)my 458 Win which can be loaded to a COL of 3.75", crimped into the bottom cannelure of that bullet, giving more powder room than the 458 Lott loaded to a COL of 3.6". For anyone interested in a CZ550 in 458 Win, it can be loaded to a max COL of 3.8", without any modifications.

When I purchased that rifle 16 months ago, that was a selling feature for me. Although, at the time, I didn't know for sure how long I could seat the bullets. Now I know. It's ideally suited for the Barnes Banded Solids and TSX's. The more I use it, the more I love it. As noted above, it'll go moose hunting to Northern Ontario in a few days. All of that said to promote the 458 Win, regardless of COL, and the CZ as an exceptionally fine rifle for Africa AND North America.