Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Accubond - never again

Sure is funny how a Barnes X bullet can tumble or fail to expand and you get all kinds of explanations/ excuses for it but let a Nosler Poly tip bullet kill an elk quickly and all you hear is condemnation.

Accubonds as most require proper placement for maximum effect, If saving meat is your thing, it is for me,, try the third visible rib past the shoulder

The only Accubonds I have experience with were 140gr 7mm out of a 7x57 with 50.0gr H4350. I DID NOT see the damage as being equal to the Ballistic Tip. My son shot 3 whitetail last year from about 105lbs to 135lbs, the size where blood shot meat should have been very apparent. The largest deer was shot at about 100 yds thru the back of the right shoulder and out the front of the left shoulder without hitting any bone except ribs. Deer went about 10 feet and the shoulders were absolutely not jellied. Smallest deer was hit from about 40 yds in the left shoulder socket destroying it then traveled to the rear stopping against the femur in the right ham. Measured penetration was +/- 32". Messed up the shoulder with bone fragments but not the jellying I have seen with BT's. Go figure.

There ya go!! Ever wonder how the pioneers shot all them thousands of deer and moose with 30-30's? LOL

My son and I have shot more than a few deer with the 140gr. AB's from a 270WSM and 2 deer with the 110gr. AB's out of a 25-06. Whether one believes that DRT's are necessary or more desirable or not, that has been my experience with the AB's.......each time. I, for one, appreciate such results, especially when most of our PNW deer only need to fall in place at the shot and they're already in the thick stuff and can be very difficult to find. We have many different, low lying bushes which exhibit beautiful fall colors right about now......many of them blood red in color..........not so helpful when one finds it necessary to track any non-DRT animal any distance, much less 150 yards or so.

We've recovered only 2 of the AB's and if we're looking for "beauty" here as an indication of effectiveness, they were both Homecoming Queens. I do coax both these cartridges along at healthy speeds and have asked them to perform well from 80-305 yards, which they have done quite well. They do expand and cut a notably wide swath on broadside, double lung, nicked or split a rib type shots.

From my observations, albeit limited only by our State's bag limits and time out on the market, I will continue to use the AB's on deer sized game on down. I have no doubt that they can be effective medicine on elk as well in the larger cal./cartridges/weights, but there are bullets available out there that more specifically address the larger/thicker/hardier game on the menu. For those moments and/or situations, I have found both the NP's and TSX's to give outstanding performance.

I think that giving oneself a bit of a "cushion" with the bullets we choose to use on specific game is a prudent move. We all strive for perfect shot placement and should. Whether we all strive for the least meat loss is of no consequence to some, while important to others. I think that most would hope to experience a DRT shot, while others sound as if they somewhat expect a 150 yard tracking job each season. For me, give me a bullet that will penetrate to the vitals even when the whole scenario goes south and my perfect broadside shot turns into a shoulder shot rather than a double lunger.

I think that AB's can be very effective on deer even in a miscalculated and misplayed situation, while TSX's or NP's and the like do the same for elk on up. Using "enough gun" is no more important than using "enough bullet", IMHO. When we do our part, using that "perfect for our needs" combination rarely fails to meet expectations. It's our individual and very specific "expectations" that seem to differ so much, which seems to be just enough impetus for some to take issue with.....when none really exists as these things are just that......our own expectations.

Just my thoughts.......

Rock Chuck,
Maybe Im missing something but it does not appear the accubond performance was a secret before your post. To me it looks like it did everything you wanted it to do. Im sorry you lost half a shoulder but that still leaves you with 3 1/2 quarters to make meat from.

What bullet would have been a better choice for you considering the same placement and speeds? Im guessing a conventional cup and core would have given all of the meat damage without the extra penetration.

Congrats on your elk and enjoy your steaks.

So little time, so many bullets...

I'm sorry, I'm so very, very sorry.

I've seen bloodshot meat from every bullet on the market.

Once again, I'm sooo sorry.

That's classic man. Great line.

Thanks for posting the results!! Sounds like perfect performance to me, I'm gonna have to try some of those!

I though the whole purpose of a bullet was to ensure a quick and humane kill on an animal.

Sounds like it worked just like it was supposed to.

I am sorry you lost some meat (sincerely, not sarcastic), but to me a quick and humane kill is the first priority. Loss because of bloodshot meat is a distant second, and I hate to lose meat as much as anyone.

Bill

I noticed that the accubond is being fired by magnum cartridges for the most part, what if you used a 140gr in 7mm-08 for elk?the reduced velocity may be a very good combination.

I went to 2 different sporting goods stores trying to find 30 cal. 165 grains accubonds and both were out. The third time was a charm. The secert is out. Sportmans warehouse has the smallest inventory of any store that I have ever shopped at. They only carry 2 boxes maxium of any one bullet. I am glad that Costco more than 2 of everything in there store. Must be some hunters know more than I -- shop early and buy accubounds.

I am going to load up 50 rounds of 30-06 using 56.5 grains of IMR 4350 tonight. Rock Chuck from your description they are going to work just fine come Sunday Morning in Southwest Montana and if I lose a 1/2 front shoulder to bullet damage then I have a second tag. One cow and nothing less than a 300 six point for the second.

I will bet you that for each elk kill on the average over a half of a shoulder is wasted from age of freezer burn. GO ACCUBONDS --_ I JUST NEED A KILLER.

quote:
"The bloodshot area was massive, going back about halfway down the ribcage on the NEAR side. "

Sorry, i just don't believe that was actual "bloodshot" - which is defined as disrupted muscle tissue where the blood is IN the muscle, not just around it. It is perfectly normal for blood to run in-between the shoulder and ribs of any animals shot in that general area. The interstitial blood is not "bloodshot", it is just the natural path that blood takes between tissues. Blood flowing in-between the external muscles and ribs in the shoulder area will occur with bowshot as well as rifle shot game. That blood cleans up with some light knife work and paper towels. I have often seen, and I am not impressed with hunting buddies who throw away perfectly good meat because the SURFACE is covered with clots of jellied blood. Clean it up!
Just so you don't think I am another "armchair expert", I butcher ALL my own big game and that of family members, (well over 100 head to date) and I come from four generations of butchers. I have also studied veterinary anatomy. Belive me, blood running halfway down the ribcage is NORMAL with many shoulder shots.
I have very limited experience with the AB, but see no reason to condemn that bullet.

Very fine post....

I'm glad I ordered 400 Accubond 160 grain 7MM bullets from Shooterspro shop last time they were on sale.

Yeah. That is a possible 800 bloodshot elk shoulders

I am jealous, and wish I had 3 1/2 quarters of great tasting elk, no doubt. Great posts, no condemnations of the bullet, or the original poster here.

Loaded 130s in my 260 and 6.5x55 for deer/hog this season and have no concerns.

My first deer was shot with what I THOUGHT was a 'downloaded by me' 7mag ADL-old stainless bbl 700....Speer manual load.....later called them and they confirmed my 'reduced load' was about max, as they later learned the load was originally in a gun that was safe, later found out to be too hot so they changed the test rifle and updated their manual.

Bottom line, my first deer, a nice 8pt whitetail of good size came out after grunting in...1987...loaded 145 BTSP....at 30 yds hit buck from a high angle from a ladder stand, hit the knuckle I suppose, and GOD Almighty I had COMPLETELY destroyed that shoulder. Bullet disintegrated on the first shoulder, destroyed first lung-jellied, and the second was fragment/damaged. The people from the camp across where I shot it, helped clean it, could not believe the damage. Hated to lose the meat, but ironically I never got more meat off a deer since, came back from the butcher w/74lbs of weighed meat inc. sausage, etc. so I was ONE happy camper!

Later I sold that gun, too much I figured, since killed deer with 6mm/7mm Br rifles, 243, 260, 7/08, 270, 6.5x55, 338/06 - (and Lord those 200 BTs were sweet at 2900+ on deer w/o too much meat damage) 44, 7TCU....all did the job, and do not recall ever seeing quite the destruction as the close impacted 7mag. The recoil was more than I cared for as I love to shoot....alot when I get to the range or just out for fun in the field....the gun was heavier than I wanted to tote, and the energy I deemed far excessive for MY needs.

I see a place for magnums and I, IF/WHEN I go after bears or game in Africe, but for now, I am happy w/o them for what I do. There may come a day for a rifle w/more capability and perhaps factory load convenience and options, 338WM, 375, or if I could handle a nice 416....but as much as I'd enjoy it, not sure the opportunity will present.

I think there is a good place for 'frangible game bullets' and the AB is not one I refer to, I have taken a few deer with 105 amax/6BR at 2840, one at 400 yds, double lunged/exited deer stumbled/fell w/in 25 yds, seconds earlier another died at 200yd spine shot-bullet vaporized-DRT kill, another head shot 40 yds, as well as coyote/fox and a beautiful bobcat that I was MOST happy to have used that very amax-raking from rear, bullet lost most mass inside as the exit was about a nickel sized...nice mount in my living room.

I may try some 140s in my 6.5s and if I were loading a 7/08 for deer a 162 amax would be tried as well as even on lung shot elk-and I know that will draw flames, but I feel at slower speeds, ESP. at very long range, the amax is VERY sure to expand where many may not at a distance.

All bullets are likely 'engineered' with a velocity window in mind, as well as intended game animal(s) to be shot.

That said, I was MOST happy to have put a 243 up the pipe of my #1 Ruger RSI after I settled in a stand a few years ago, loaded with an 85 gr. X. Why did I do that last minute instead of the 85 BTHPs in my pocket-curiosity for more knowledge. That bullet did a DRT on a very nice HOG at 240 yds, mv 3100 chronied.....and I would not have wanted ANY other bullet when I made that hit, it plain worked to perfection on the tough hided/gristled hog busting thru shoulder/lungs/bottom spine/off shoulder then stopping in hide...yet minimal meat damage. One might surmise that X is the end all.......I'll just say it has it's place, and rightly so. Looked just like the ads...

SO, my take on bullets, I choose what I feel is a 'best compromise' for what the situation is given cartridge speed, game animal, and distance shot. I ALSO consider shot placement which can vary. The 6mmBR double lunged as it was a larger kill zone at the 400 yds distance, the spine was taken on the 200 yd as the deer was facing away, and my gun was zeroed dead on there so I knew I was putting it in a CNS hit with precision, whereas the 40 yd doe was an evening shot and I wanted to minimize any tracking potential w/a body hit as it was at LAST legal light, it was standing looking my direction, so non moving. Did in another at the same 40 yds distance a few years earlier, another doe, but that time neck shot...why? I had a 70gr TNT in the 243...and why....it was what was last shot in the gun at the range playing with loads and it was what the RSI was sighted in for, so I grabbed those that morning over the 85x's and 85 BTHPs as for me, SHOT PLACEMENT was going to trump bullet choice on a soft skinned animal, and I KNEW that day, shot placement was going to HAVE to be perfect should an opportunity present, and I were to take that shot. Another time a deer was lunged by me/my 6BR 70 TNT at 200 yds, no sign of hit till it put on brakes and dropped 60 yds from impact...did the job as well as any bullet would have thru lungs I suppose. No exit just for the record-so a blood trail would not have been good if I had been in the woods instead of the open land in TX where I was at then. Again/pros-cons.

There are limits, pros/cons on all bullets, and various ones may be "PERFECT" for that SPECIFIC situation depending on MANY variables. All I can say, its not a matter of how fast they expand, how much damage they do (and more is sometimes desired-as it does this to vital tissue/AND meat/muscle) my goal is to use an accurate load, KNOW trajectory/range of shot, and do my best to place it where THAT bullet/load combo is expected to reliably penetrate to vitals aimed for, and destroy enough tissue for a quick clean kill. That said, I'll pass on FMJs unless it was all I had and I was in survival mode.

Meat damage is important, but I'll accept a lost shoulder whether by my bad shooting, intended good shooting, or a bullet that gets too 'excited' on impact, so long as I put my game down humanely and quickly, which lets me breathe easier as quickly after the shot as I can.....as many know one often may hold their breathe whether consciously or subconsciously during their shot....and follow thru on that hold a few seconds awaiting your animal to drop!

The same bullets that may be too soft on elk, or 'perceived' as a little soft may be found to be great on deer, meat damage aside as less penetration is often needed and I believe in transferring energy rapidly may trump a bullet that might be less expansive.....shot placement dependent. A lung shot deer for me would have me wanting an 85gr Sierra BTHP destroying soft tissue in a larger wound channel perhaps than a 100 partition..and yes I have used that partition in a 243 on a lung shot..but if I were shooting end to end, or where as in the woods where a small sapling not seen impedes the bullet to target, a partition would be desired over the 85.

I think many more 'conventional or bullets that are not considered high weight retaining bullets' are perceived as the end all, but let's not overlook how well softer constructed bullets can/have worked on game when the appropriate shot placement is made, which I feel is best used through lungs.

As illustrated above, I have used varmint bullets, conventional bullets, AND premium bullets all with SOLID success in the field, and glad to have the choices, via Speer/Sierra/Hornady/Nosler/Barnes, etc. I will continue using all at some point, but I do have to say for what I do, at non magnum speeds and on deer/hogs, I am REALLY thinking my 130 ABs may strike a good compromise on accuracy and killing power from most shot angles. The next 2 'all around' bullets of choice for me would be the 129 SP and the 125 partition-assuming it shot accurately.

Those above who use the 'stood the test of time' partitions add to the legacy....soft front core, remaining shank for penetrating so you get a 'combo' of both I reckon. Either extreme a case can be made....a solid for elephants.....a varmint bullet for prairie dogs....

For me I like to experiment a little...or alot I suppose to gain knowledge...but I hedge my bet for sure kills, no matter the bullet w/again....shot placement. If a shot requires meat loss to be sacrificed to obtain a quick kill, with bullet being used...so be it.

I have yet to kill w/an AB, but will gladly put them to the test I hope soon from a 6.5mm. My rationale, game is deer/hog, extreme penetration not needed but it will likely give more than say a ballistic tip should I need on a bad angle deer or a tougher hide/gristled hog (perhaps not - but that is my perception) and more 'expansion/shock' than a partition/barnes....yet if after elk, I would use them in a pinch if need be, but likely look for a bullet of tougher construction if heavy bone/bad angle encounted so it would be for the 'insurance effect.'

Ballistic tip fans, not to worry, I have I believe 1,500 6mm 95 grains just waiting for my next 6mm BR project...and my last BR put them out at 3,000 mv so I have plans for a few deer to succumb to them also. Had there been at the time ABs in the same bullet....I might have just chosen them as my 6.5s are cutting some nice small groups...and that is confident building and reassuring when it's time to squeeze off one at game.

Putting all the marketing/marketing hype, mental 'masturbation' as a fellow called it, May all hunters aim be true and freezers fill up regardless of what their bullet of choice is this season!

Well folks, got my 130 grain AB's sighted in today at 200 yds from 2 rifles:

After sight in yesterday at 100 yds, I took my Ruger K1A 6.5x55 this a.m. back to the range-again using my 6x42 German #4, and put 3 130gr Accubonds into 1 1/8" at 200 yds using 45.5gr IMR 4350 and Lapua brass. Chrony 2780 fps so I feel very excited about shooting a deer/hog hopefully with this set up.

My sons 260 Sako Grey Wolf put 3 130ab's into 3/4" at 200 yds, using a 2-7x35 3P#4 and followed up with a 2 shot group (saving ammo for hunting) into 5/8". Also IMR4350, but 44.0gr in FC308 brass, have 10 left for hunting, and another 50 in RP brass the same.

Let's just say that I could not ask for better accuracy from either rifle!

Both rifles BONE stock out the box, NOT bad I say, groups rival custom bbl rifles I have had!

My opinion, don't aim for the shoulders then. Any bullet going thru frontal meat area will cause loss of meat.

Hit them in the boiler maker and they go down. I use Accubonds in my 300WM (180gr) and 270WSM (140gr)and my soon to be 338-06AI (225gr). Mostly all 1 shot kills - double lung complete penetration. Small entrance wound, HUGE eixt, with major internal damage to lungs, heart, etc.