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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,475 |
I don't think Noveske's can be had. They are not taking orders, and doubt there is one on a shelf somewhere. Prolly the same for other "customs". Dunno. Why the apprehension for Les Baer? Curious if anyone has handled one, and disliked it for a reason. BTW, what is the going rate for Noveske (if they could be found)? Take it there are no les baer .45 fans here either? Never owned anything Les baer BTW. OUCH: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=116694099
Last edited by Sakoluvr; 11/21/08.
Faith and love of others knows no mileage nor bounds. That's simply the way it is.
dogzapper
After the game is over, the king and the pawn go into the same box.
Italian Proverb
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,637
Campfire Regular
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Les Baer makes a fine 1911, and if I were to buy a semi-custom thats what I would buy. I shoot customs though.
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,756 Likes: 5
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,756 Likes: 5 |
I think for the 98% of us that shoot ARs for fun, and that might want a rifle suitable for hard times, the Les Baer would be just fine.
I say if you like the product, and would be happy with it, buy it.
Sam......
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Joined: Feb 2006
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Campfire Member
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If you are gonna kill hogs on an AR frame you should look at the Bushmaster 450.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,790
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
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I think for the 98% of us that shoot ARs for fun, and that might want a rifle suitable for hard times, the Les Baer would be just fine.
I say if you like the product, and would be happy with it, buy it. That was well put! I picked up an LMT due to the fact that a couple of us spec'ed up at the same time and got a decent deal as a result. I would probably have been as happy with an RRA but love the LMT. It's been through the paces at the range and a few carbine courses without a hiccup. I'm sure the Baer will do as well. Now I've got the itch for a DTECH upper. 6.8 maybe, or WSSM....choices. George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,488
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2005
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I own a Les Baer upper in 6.5 Grendel It is built with a Krieger barrel. I have a White Oak upper with a Krieger barrel (one in eight twist) in .223 Remington. They are both vary accurate uppers. Yes there are uppers that are perhaps better? You might want to call Accuracy Speaks, or White Oak.
Thus saith thr lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeh from the lord. Jeremiah 17:5 KJV
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,681 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,681 Likes: 4 |
as you can tell from my handle i'm a glock fan...... sarcasm aside, i think the les baer 45's are great. the few 1911's i own are all colt right now. but i think a LB 45 is fine weapon, not as refined in the finish like a wilson or brown but the quality of construction is there. the hard fit slide and frame are bad azz.
Figures don't lie, But Liars figure
Assumption is the mother of mistakes
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
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One thing I've noticed is when you start looking at rifles with everything you want (not need) the $1700 isn't too far out of line. At first I thought the price was kind of high, then I added up what I had in my Sabre Defence Competition rifle and realized I was only about $300 away. To me the important part wasn't the price I paid, it was the fact I got exactly what I wanted and it works great for my needs. I have no experience with the Les Baer rifle so I just don't know. One thing I will comment on is resale value. I think you would do much better Les Baer spec rifle than a Frankenstein rifle if you should ever decide to sell. I know you aren't supposed to buy guns with this intent but I'm just say'n.
Terry
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Campfire Regular
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"With a guaranteed 1/2" M.O.A. and a price well below the $3000-plus you might expect to pay for such an extraordinary piece of equipment, the Les Baer Super Varmint model is almost sure to change the whole AR market." Les Baer advertises 1/2" guarantee by the way.
My brother owns one and it is very nice. For $1700, I think you'd be getting a deal. Especially now when every local gunshop in a 25 miles radius has empty AR racks and companies like DPMS has a 6-8 month waiting list. I'd get it if I were in your shoes.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
3000 for a gun that shoots 1/2 inch. Guess I've been in competition too many years and trust the good custom smiths too much... Didn't take much over 1000 or 1200 to get to that a couple of years back and other than the election stupidity... I dont see why they'd be much more these days...
1700 isn't far off, but say for 500 bucks, and thats assuming the extra 500 isn't all those high buck rails and such that one doesn't really need... 500 will buy some ammo, mags, spare lower, parts and so on.
But if 1700 makes you warm and fuzzy, like I've said, you won't go wrong.
With the resale comments, thats true, and always has been, but as mentioned, I've never bought a rifle or gun that I've ever sold. I had a few POS traded to me for work performed that got traded to a good gun, one was even a 270 and I can't stand 270s.. but I digress.
Right now though, seems if you can find anything, buy it. I tried to order a few AK/SKS and ARS from a BIG wholesaler, plus a couple of revolvers for friends, that simply waited way to long IMHO, but I was even surprised to hear that they had NOTHING in stock other than an old nagant a friend wanted. And to hear folks like Brownells are dried up on mags etc...
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Posts: 826 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2008
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John, at White Oak, built a .17 Remington upper for me a couple years ago. It'll shoot right at 1/2" @ 200 yards when I do my part. WOA will be building my precision uppers from now on.
John is a skilled shooter and a great smith IMO. I got the chance to meet him a couple years ago at a new shooter clinic. I wasn't lucky enough to get paired with him though. I won't knock a Baer. I know it's quality stuff. However, I think you'll get a little better "bang for your buck" with WOA.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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New Member
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New Member
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I have looked at those Les Baers, Wilson's and a few others. I will not try to pretend I am anywhere near the experts many of these forum members are.
I will share that we have 3 AR built on Stag lowers with JP triggers (triggers made one heck of a difference)
On those we fitted DPMS bull barrel uppers we bought from Midway. Using Black Hills 60gr VMax loads we consistently get less that 1/2 inch groups at 100yds if we do our part.
A good friend just took delivery of a STAG Model 7 (varminter). Using the same ammo it shot virtually the same grouping.
The STAG was $1000, we have around $850 in each of the Stag/DPMS combos.
Unless you are shooting WAY out there there are a lot of high quality AR's.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494 |
Its no secret John is at the top of the pack quality wise. Has been for a long time and his pinned rear sights reaffirmed that for me.
As to comparing(not directed at you) Accuracy Speaks to White Oak, AS is not in the same league IMHO. Very good but not top line. Just my take on that.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Regular
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How do you know "if I do my part" is not the same as" an occassional flier". Or a rifle is sub moa except when it isn't.The same error that shoots an ocassional lousy group is the same error that shoots an occasional tight group.Just in the other direction.
A gun must shoot consistently tight groups to be mean anything . Forget the "if I do my part". If you are the part that is the problem get a better rest ,trigger ,or shooter.
"We are building a dictatorship of relativism which recoqnizes nothing as definitive and whose ultimate goal consists solely of ones own self ego and desires."Cardinal Rathzinger
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,190
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
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Les guarantee's .5" groups at l00yds thats 5 shots and includes two targets with the rifle, this is at least with his 6.5 grendel carbine, who else in the industry does that??????
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,494
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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If directed at me, then you must know I don't shoot with bags anda bench, I shoot with a coat and sling and not every shot is perfect.....
As to guarantees, none of the top line individual smiths off them that I'm aware of, but then their guns have always shot better than the .5 moa that Les is promising... and generally speaking one can find a load to hit .5 moa in any decent gun, though it may only be one combo, not a gun that shoots almost anything decent in that range.... much like some otehr hunting rifle guarantees, they use ballistic tips to get tehre, an accurate bullet that I'd never use on game...
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Regular
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I�m guessing that was directed at me and this would be my answer.
In the rifle mentioned earlier I�m shooting �match� ammo or at least my version. I am unaware of any factory match 17 Rem ammo. I happen to be shooting ammo with the same bullet that has been weight sorted to the nearest .1gr, seated at the same depth, over a powder charge that has been hand trickled to the nearest .1gr using the same primer. Said loads are being shot through an upper custom built to my specs by an accomplished shooter and gunsmith. Mounted on the upper is a Leupold scope that is powerful and clear enough to see .17 cal holes at 100 yards. The trigger happens to be a two-stage Jewell. Since finding a good powder charge the results have been very repeatable. When the resulting groups are repeatable after several boxes of ammo shot at different distances and locations, I�m betting I, the shooter, am the weakest link in the setup. When I can call nearly every flier before seeing the paper, again I am weakest link. When I�m �on� the groups have amazed me. Maybe a few were a fluke. Normally, I don't consider myself that great of a shot. But when the bad ones are still under 1.5� at 200 yards I�d begin to argue maybe it�s me, not the rifle. Granted, this is only at distances of 200 yards or less and has always been prone with a bi-pod or a bench with bags. No, it isn�t a good test of my skill as a rifleman, but I think it�s a decent way to determine the potential of a particular rifle.
Further evidence for me is provided by shooting the same ammo through my custom .17 bolt gun. That rifle happens to have a barrel of the same manufacturer and twist rate.
Both rifles have proven to be pretty accurate under controlled conditions, shooting ammo I have loaded, with both myself and others pulling the trigger. That leads me to believe that it�s my skill, or lack thereof, behind the trigger that has the most effect on the size of groups produced. That�s what I mean by �if I do my part�.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Jul 2006
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I�m guessing that was directed at me and this would be my answer.
In the rifle mentioned earlier I�m shooting �match� ammo or at least my version. I am unaware of any factory match 17 Rem ammo. I happen to be shooting ammo with the same bullet that has been weight sorted to the nearest .1gr, seated at the same depth, over a powder charge that has been hand trickled to the nearest .1gr using the same primer. Said loads are being shot through an upper custom built to my specs by an accomplished shooter and gunsmith. Mounted on the upper is a Leupold scope that is powerful and clear enough to see .17 cal holes at 100 yards. The trigger happens to be a two-stage Jewell. Since finding a good powder charge the results have been very repeatable. When the resulting groups are repeatable after several boxes of ammo shot at different distances and locations, I�m betting I, the shooter, am the weakest link in the setup. When I can call nearly every flier before seeing the paper, again I am weakest link. When I�m �on� the groups have amazed me. Maybe a few were a fluke. Normally, I don't consider myself that great of a shot. But when the bad ones are still under 1.5� at 200 yards I�d begin to argue maybe it�s me, not the rifle. Granted, this is only at distances of 200 yards or less and has always been prone with a bi-pod or a bench with bags. No, it isn�t a good test of my skill as a rifleman, but I think it�s a decent way to determine the potential of a particular rifle.
Further evidence for me is provided by shooting the same ammo through my custom .17 bolt gun. That rifle happens to have a barrel of the same manufacturer and twist rate.
Both rifles have proven to be pretty accurate under controlled conditions, shooting ammo I have loaded, with both myself and others pulling the trigger. That leads me to believe that it�s my skill, or lack thereof, behind the trigger that has the most effect on the size of groups produced. That�s what I mean by �if I do my part�.
Nope, I don't think he was talking to you (see the little re:foogle at the top of his post?) I'm waiting on another WOA upper as we speak. My WOA varmint will do 0.5" @ 100yd 5 shot groups with almost boring regularity, if I do my part. 
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