Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire This ought to generate some discussion

Scott F:

No, you are not lazy. As you stated, you work 60 hours/week. That's not lazy. You have overcome adversity and are to be applauded for your effort.

You said that you were "prohibited from working". The last time I looked this was a free country. Was someone going to put you in jail if you worked. I'm not aware that doctors have law enforcement responsibility. Apparently you have free choice and now choose to work in spite of the "prohibition".

However, I wonder how many others do not have your determination and just lay around griping about their miserable situation and expect the rest of us to support them?

I know what you mean,I hate them lazy good for nuthins. Shoot,I get up everyday at 10:00 and head on down the Costco for some free samples.Then I stand out on the freeway offramp and hold up my cardboard sign.Heck, thats alot of work running around and bending over to pick up change that hits the ground. Then I have to hang out by by mailbox and wait for my foodstamps and welfare check. I'm so tuckered out, thatI usualy have to take a nap before I head back to the Costco for dinner handouts.Ummm free samples is good eaten.

I was prohibited from work as the Doctors would not sign a release to go to work and when they finally did, after five and a half years the restrictions were so strict no one in their right mind would hire me.

I had to change states and forge a note to get into trucking school. Not proud of having to lie but it is what it took to go to work.

I don't disagree with the basic premise of what you are saying (as I interpret it anyway). The opportunity exists for all of us when we are young to do just about anything. Some choose to show up for school, do well through effort and keeping priorities in line, and thus maintain their options. They know where they want to go, plan for it and execute the plan. Some choose goals based on money, others based on a particular desire or passion. Others choose not to put the effort in to achieve a particular place in life. Very few truly don't have the opportunity. It bothers me when our government suggests we need give certain groups "opportunity" when in reality they have merely chosen to not take advantage of existing opportunity.
Not having money does not mean someone is "poor" in life though. I know people with very little money but they have very "rich" lives and vice versa.

As I suggested earlier, it will be up to each individual, so suddenly and unexpectedly inconvenienced, to either take part in a retraining programs, hit the sidewalk for whatever can tide them over....... or simply do nothing at all. This would again all be determined by what is "in" us to do.

Again.....my circumstances are the same as others in some cases and different in many others. Retired at 53, my pension is reasonable, but not enough to have put all my eggs in that one basket. Made little $ for 2/3 of my 30 years, but my wife worked full time as well. We invested what we could afford in between the usual house payments, Dr. bills, our kids major involvement with sports and the necessities of the raising of those 2 children through their growing years. Nothing remarkable, in that regard, I suppose.

What we DID do however, without any assistance from either family nor government intervention, was to make investments that weren't too out of line with what we thought we could afford, but that coincided with the occasional yearly raises we had come to somewhat count on. 'Course, this meant doing somewhat without, but not enough not to enjoy a full family life, plus some extra perks along the way (a boat, traveling, a few firearms, etc.). We both started out at $550 per month, before taxes. Not a lot, but neither was food nor gas then. One thing led to another and as fortune and good luck would have it, the stock market went nuts for a few years there and all was GTG......for those that chose that route.

I expect that we all have some magic figure in our heads of what we need to acquire to be able to both retire on and to live out the rest of our lives without much need to look over our shoulders. Due to some very fortunate investments and their subsequent reinvestments, we/I reached that age at 42. However, my kids were about to start college, medical insurance was solely through my employment (my wife then had a commission only job), so I decided to continue working until I reached my 30 years (in 2004) so that I received a pension, albeit, nothing outstanding, to help buffer any UNEXPECTED economic downturns. Guess what.......here we are today. Not something I really wanted to do, but I felt it prudent to do so.

My wife continues to work, albeit, a bit less than full time, the kids are grown and out on their own, my bank accounts/investments have put us back to where we were approximately 10 years ago, but in the interim, I've purchased 4 other homes that I rent out and even though I don't make anything off of them each month, I'm building some equity.....not alot these days, but a bird in the hand.......

So.......not much income initially for either of us. No real frills nor did we complain about the lack thereof. Took what we could afford and made the best decisions that we could, without benefit of experienced and expensive professionals. Lucky.......you bet, but as in huntin' and fishin', luck counts. If one lives hand to mouth without regard for what may happen in the future, it's hard to argue that he/she/they don't deserve exactly what they get.......sans any catastrophic event, which certainly does and can occur.

My son is 28 now and has owned his own home since age 20. He also owns his own business and employs 5 other guys and he is, by all accounts, both happy and financially secure, not necessarily do these always blend nicely, but in his case, it would seem as if it does. My daughter, on the other hand, hasn't a pot to pee in. She is also quite happy, yet is happy whether or not she's broke or has a few $ in her pocket. She works, but doesn't really care if she employed or not. We've never "spoiled" either my son or daughter, but have tried to be as generous as possible without goin' over "that" line (which is undoubtedly different for each parent). She's a loving daughter, respectful to all, my best fishin' partner as is my son in regards to my huntin' partner. I love them both dearly and we don't play favorites. I do describe them as my son being able to turn $10 into a $100 and my daughter takin' that same $10 and turnin' it into a CD (and unfortunately, I don't mean a certificate of deposit)....... It is what it is, for whatever reasons, none that I can readily explain.

These are our biological children (we've now been married almost 33 years), they've been raised essentially the same and have both obviously witnessed our work ethic.

People are different, with different ideas on what's important and what's not....at least to them as individuals. But what we have allowed as a nation, is not only the opportunity to succeed as individuals, but more obviously and unfortunately, the opportunity to fail as individuals by not trying at all or making a concerted effort to be productive and then allowing this group to be rescued from themselves at the cost of all others who have taken the exact opposite path or approach.

I don't have the answers, but I do know that throwin' $ at those that can't appreciate it for what it's worth............not necessarily a great template for their/our future.......IMHO.

If it were necessary for me to go back to work tomorrow, I would gladly do so. Who knows, it may just come to that as the bottom has yet to be reached as far as our economy goes. Due to 3 back surgeries since my retirement, no doubt my prior job would be out of the question. But I could assure you, I would be employed sooner than later and I wouldn't be so set on receiving my last salary amount that I wouldn't take a job paying less. I see this as also a huge problem in our society today..........if I can't work and make this much OR if I can't make what I made at my last job, I'm not working. Somehow, we've done this to ourselves and it didn't start yesterday. To continue on just "handin' it out", is obviously not the answer. Yet, we continue to do so and somehow find more $ all the time to supplement this craziness.

I don't believe that any able bodied person can feel better at the end of the day having been paid for doing absolutely nothing, but then again, perhaps my "vision" is blurred.

YMMV.

I don't have a problem with that, rather your statement that anyone who ends up poor, is dumb and lazy. If you want to sugar coat it now, that's fine, maybe you should have sugar coated your original statement.

You now go on and explain about those who were poor and then picked themselves up, well you original statement made no such concession.





Your original statement comes straight from the Rush Limbaugh book of "I made it and you didn't,, so I have no time" If you want to soften it and and explain it with a bit more thought, that's swell.

By the way, I have been employed at my job for 22 years, I am good at what I do. This crash has me in a bad way, so I have to pull money out of my 401K to survive. Will I find steadier employment before my savings and 401K give out, I don't know, it is bleak out there. As I look for employement the unemployment ranks swell.

If I don't find work in time that will pay enough to pay the mortgage? Well I guess that will put me too in the category of the dumb and lazy.

You have no compassion, OK.
You don't want government to extend unemployment, OK.
You want to believe that those who are in a bad situation put themselves there and deserve no helping hand, OK

But if you are going to put your hard line views out there, don't then try to play them down when they draw a negative response from those who don't totally buy into "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" Rush Limbaugh as "all knowing".


I am no fan of those who sit on their ass and collect with no effort, but where we differ is that I don't assume all who end up poor, fit that description.

I do not like my tax dollars supporting people who refuse to work and would not my seeing something like the wpa for infastructure for anyone drawing a check.

But some of the hardest working people I know barely make above minumum wage. I don't know what keeps them from better paying jobs but I feel it is more of a cultural and lack of education thing.

Not all gray matter is created the same, regardless of the feel good Oprah chants.

I know plenty of employed folks that strike me as stupid and lazy. In fact, quite a few have made amazing amounts of money considering how little they seem to bring to the table.

Life ain't fare, and there are plenty of decent people that seem to just get surved a sheet sandwhich day in and day out. There are others that strike me as useless at best or evil at worst who seem to have no end of champaigne and caviar.

Some how inspite of having been very fortunate in the breaks life has thrown me I see myself as no better than the man at the top or the bottom.

What I see is a broken system, one that has taken away the need to work for many, and when folks fall into that well, it's little wonder they can't climb out. Taking away the need for one to work breaks the spirit of a man.

That was my point earlier about intelligence. Plenty of people with double digit IQ�s who are hard working upstanding folks. Others like to pontificate on the intertubes.

Most (not all) poor people who are poor for an extended period of time get their not because they are lazy (there are some) or because they are dumb (there are some) they get there because they repeatidly make bad decisions. I'm sure you've seen them.

Well, I know a lot of hard-working people that don't make bank....and are struggling to make ends meet. And I know a lot of lazy people that like to drive around a market parking lot for an hour looking for the closest parking spot to the door.....and they drive nice cars and have boats they never use.

Poorest people I have met, in my travels, have been the happiest. Richest people....well....sorta miserable and lazy....sorta fat and out of touch with their bodies....sorta the type that don't have any hobbies outside of chasing a simple $mooch....whilst life is passing them by, lightening speed.

Me? I'd rather pick chit with the chickens for pennies and war wounds on my hands than trade in my sense of self for a million $moochies selling horse chit to the masses or making sure they are comfortable. Guess that is why I'll always be poor and working with animals....but it's my gig and I am good at it.

Priorities...and choices. I suspect balance is key. Be damned, though.....balance has never really been my strong suit<grin>...

Prolly gonna be some bad times that lay ahead. Some are gonna sink....some are donna dance....and some may sink before they sing. Me? I'll do what I've always done. I'll do what I need to do to survive.

Good job, HoundGirl. Enjoyed reading that.

It's a dandy discussion topic you've brought up here KC...I'd be proud to discuss it at length with ya again over a real campfire...maybe in Raton again soon...The first exception I can think of in your topic would be Job but there were extenuating circumstances there for sure...

Wasn't it said not to judge a man 'til you walk a mile in his shoes???


Means a lot!!!

Steve, you nailed it. So true........

STATEMENT MADE BY THE LATE DR. ADRIAN ROGERS OF BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH, MEMPHIS , TENNESSEE :

YOU CANNOT LEGISLATE THE POOR INTO FREEDOM BY LEGISLATING THE WEALTHY OUT OF FREEDOM. WHAT ONE PERSON RECEIVES WITHOUT WORKING FOR, ANOTHER PERSON MUST WORK FOR WITHOUT RECEIVING.

THE GOVERNMENT CANNOT GIVE TO ANYBODY ANYTHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT FIRST TAKE FROM SOMEBODY ELSE. WHEN HALF OF THE PEOPLE GET THE IDEA THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE TO WORK BECAUSE THE OTHER HALF IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THEM, AND WHEN THE OTHER HALF GETS THE IDEA THAT IT DOES NO GOOD TO WORK BECAUSE SOMEBODY ELSE IS GOING TO GET WHAT THEY WORK FOR, THAT MY DEAR FRIEND, IS ABOUT THE END OF ANY NATION.

YOU CANNOT MULTIPLY WEALTH BY DIVIDING IT.

A brilliant statement if there ever was one.

Yep.

I have known many very successful people, and in almost every case their success has come from some combination of smarts, hard work, risk taking and delayed gratification. However, it is also true that most of them have been fortunate to catch a break along the way, even if it was just growing up in an intact middle class family or finding a mentor. Although it can be done, it is damned hard to pull yourself up from the bottom of the heap.

Means you're a mile away and you have his shoes.