Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters All the Elk Gun Anyone Will Ever Need?

Just another example of , Elk aren't that hard to kill , it just takes good bullet placement. Most people who blame the rifle and cal , should just blame their shooting. Standard cal rifles kill Elk right handy if you shoot them straight. Most people who state elk are armored plated and it takes a big magnum to just slow them down have never actually killed a elk and are repeating what they have hear or read .

First post here - lurking for a little while. I'm always a fan of bucking the system and peoples perceptions of what calibers should and shouldn't work. My only concern is that in the Canadian Rockies we have griz that run full barrel towards shots because they know there's a meal to be had. I'd prefer to be packin' something a bit bigger - or at least a can of spray - to go with my 22 caliber elk rifle.

Nor do we hear of the elk that got tagged and escaped into the next county. Yes, I have killed elk.

Woodchuck

Lot of truth to that even in the field you watch some guy gut shoot a couple of elk with his 338 and you say "aren't you going to follow those up?" Nope comes the answer" This is a 338 winchester and all you have to do is hit them anywhere and they go down. My scope must be off, guess I'll have to send it back to Leupold when I get home"

And that's generally quite true irregardless of cal or which arrow...

Dober

+10...

I sure would not want one on my elk hunt of a lifetime...

JB-
I think Ackley descibed some of his hunting experiences in his Handbook; I'm away from my copy, so I can't check which volume it was in. Possibly it was in one of his columns in an early issue of Guns & Ammo.

I remember an account of hunting goats on an island off the coast of California - Catalina? Google came up with an image I remembered. I hope Shooting Times does not mind my linking to their site:

--Bob

Edited to add: This photo is found in Vol 2 of Ackley's Handbook, page 85 in the edition I have. The rifle is a Remington 600, chambered in .17 MachIV.

Ackley spoke in his handbooks about shooting goats on Catalina
island with 17 calibers.
The 220 swift and donkeys was from a correspondant.
Good luck!

There are a lot of things you can accomplish with a centerfire 22 and good bullets;and with an elk on open hillsides with his slats fully exposed,stationary,etc,a good shot can put a 22 caliber slug about anywhere that he wants it and the result will no doubt be a defunct wapiti.

But the use of minimalist calibers just because it "can be done" strikes me as sort of the same stunt pulled off by guys like Vern O'Brien using 17 caliber wildcats on brown bear 30-40 years ago........yes it can be done, but so what?

IMHO,making 22 caliber rounds into elk rifles does not elevate the shooter to a higher moral or intellectual level(just the opposite I think);and I doubt they are the tool for the job for the general run of elk hunting,which is what most of us do,...so why bother?

I don't think that elk are ironclad, but I had an acquaintance (experienced shooter and owner of one of Oklahoma's most presigious gun emporiums) tell of a 200 gr Bitterroot from his 338 being deflected off a brown bear shoulder bone,and the only thing that saved the moment was the weight and integrity of the bullet.Any bull elk offers about as much resistance to a bullet as a brown bear,so I would have to say this conversation about 22's on elk is intellectually stimulating.....for about 37 seconds...kinda like contemplating how far your favorite pickup can tow the Queen Mary.

When I worked in gun stores, one of the recurring themes from hunters I talked to (I liked talking better than stocking shelves) was as follows;
They would use the 22/250 on deer with lots of impressive kills. They liked the pinpoint accuracy they were able to achieve, in part perhaps of the light recoil. Then, often on a good buck, they'd have a fairly easy shot on a nice deer, and draw blood, but fail to achieve a quick kill. That would be the end of their love affair with the 22/250 on deer.
I never had the opportunity to witness any of these incidents, but when I got the same stories several times from different people, there was usually substance in them.
What I guessed was happening was that at least on some of the failures, the buck appeared to be standing broadside but was angling towards or away from the hunter. Instead of getting the bullet precisely behind the shoulder, they were catching the shoulder, and failing to achieve good penetration.
The process was exactly the same as I have seen here with Barnes bullets. Guys would swear by the 22/250 because they had a few good experiences with them. There odds were pretty good though, that sooner or later they would get into a jackpot with them and swear off, to return to one of the more traditional cartridges.
I guess I don't understand the advocacy for the elk bullet with the most frontal area, deepest penetration, most retained weight, and then holding the 22/250 out as a great elk cartridge.
And, no, I haven't killed an elk with a 22/250.

Royce

He has pictures in his hand book of dead feral goats and ole P.O. kneeling over
the kill. Don't know if goats are big game or not. He killed these goats in the Channel Islands off of California in very steep country.

ColdCase1984: Going on 5 decades ago I learned to take anything and everything that gunscribes burp up - with a grain of salt!
Nothing has changed.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The very first buck I saw killed was killed at 300 yds. with a .220 Swift, 48 gr. factory load. The bullet pased close to, but over the spine and put him right dowm. He required a finishing shot, but could not get up after being hit the first time.
A couple of years ago my local gunmaker killed a medium/large black bear with a .17 Remington. Again factory ammo. It came to his predator call. Took three rds. Said the results "were in doubt there for a while."
Even with the proper bullets, the really small rds. make a very small wound channel. From what I've seen, the elk class stuff can go a long way even with a good lung shoot from a much larger bullet. If they are alert and pumped up, even an occasional deer can do this.
I'm not opposed to those who can't use anyhting larger, using smaller than normal rds. for big game hunting. If you can't handle an '06, then use a .243. We have lots of good bullet availiable for the smaller rds.
As far as I'm concerned, I'm not going to get excited about anyone who uses a .22 centerfire on big game. As long as they understand the limitations of the rd. and shoot carefully. E

The goats were shot with copper bullets out of a 17 Mach IV.
The 220 Swifts were used to cull wild donkeys to great effect.And in fact many hundreds were shot.In there shooting sessions the Swift did more bang flops than the 06s 7mags and 300 mags used against it.Pretty simple. The CE bullet Ackley used was a better bullet.
Ackley said that the 220 Swift was the greatest one shot killer of deer sized game ever devised.And those that MFed its use, had never used one.Notice P.O. said deer sized game.Didnt say anything about elk.
Its all in his books and to this day a interesting read.
Ackley was the man.
dave

I love this quote, I guess the game was much tougher 40 years ago.
"Today the best all-around rifles for Americans are the .338 Win Mag , the .340 Weatherby, and the .375 Holland and Holland. No one can go wrong on any of these three cartridges."
Elmer Keith, "Guns and Ammo for Hunting Big Game" pg 57 Petersen Publishing, 1965.

I love reading Elmer, great story teller, but sometimes.....

But did he eat right up to the hole?

For the record, I posted this for fun. While I don't doubt Taylor killed a bull with it, he didn't specify the size of the bull and I certainly don't endorse that caliber or load for elk ...especially given the range.

Which elk states authorize .22 centerfire, BTW?

I've been onhand for the slaying of three whitetail with .22 centerfires, one with a 75 gr. TAP from a Colt .223 and two with 55 gr. PSP from Remington .22/250. First staggered 20 yards and died, others were bang-flop.

Shooter was my youngest son who is a cool head and very good shot; lots of loving training from the pater familias.

I have killed one elk: a young bull at about 60 yards with a Federal 210 Nosler. Shot him through the shoulders. Ran 50 yards downhill and died. The Nosler was lodged under the hide on the far side.

So, in my experience, those TSXes must be some bad mothers...but if I ever get to go elk hunting again it will be with something with a bigger bore.

I dought it.

I know it's legal here in MT, and not down in WY. Not sure about the other states.

Carl

Who needs a 22 centerfire?!

Plenty of elk poachers get by just fine with a 22 rimfire--and you can actually eat the hole and all I suppose!