Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Best optics for AR 15???

Just bought the Bushmaster O.R.C.. I know nothing about optics for an AR. I am looking at Trijicon. The RMR, Reflex and the Tripower. Which one is better? Do I want any of these? Any info on optics would be greatly appreciated.

All depends on what you want to do with it. I have 3 different guns configured 3 different ways cause I haven't found a true do it all optic.

I didn't care for the Reflex and have no experience with the other 2. For a straight red dot I like Aimpoints but am fond of a low powered variable scope. I use a 1.5-5 Leupold but you might check out the Accupoints if you like Trijicon.

There's a couple of threads not too old that deal with the same question of the best optic.

I was just checking out the Aimpoints. They seem pretty decent also. What model Leupold do you use?

I have a VXIII 1.5-5 this is a 1" scope with a regular duplex. A buddy of mine bought an M4 with the SPR reticle and I didn't much care for it but that's just me, he recently bought a VXIII on closeout with the illuminated circle and dot. It has my interest a little bit. I never needed an illuminated reticle for shooting but it's interesting, I'll know more after I've ran it a bit.

I also have a VXIII 3.5-10 on another gun.

My Aimpoint is the ML3 model since I don't have night vision I saved some money, it also has the 2 MOA dot instead of the 4 MOA.

I too prefer low powered variables over other types. The VXIII 1.5x5 is a great all around optic. Very hard to beat.


TWR,

Do you know where your buddy picked up that closeout illuminated circle dot VXIII?

Midway or Natchez, I had just ordered another 3.5-10 for a 243 and then he brings this thing to me and says "what do you think?"

I was awful tempted to order one myself but too many toys and not enough funds...

Here is what I posted in a thread a couple of months ago reference the same topic:

Without going into a lengthy dissertation, I have tried and been issued a number of different optics for M4 type rifles. The short version is, after using red dots such as the Eotech, and fixed power Acogs, I have settled on low powered illuminated variables.

They allow fast, both eyes open shooting at short ranges on the lowest setting, as well as the ability to dial up for more precise placement at longer ranges. This allows flexibilty in ever changing environments.

Check out Leupold 1.5x5s Nightforce 1x4s or 2.5x10s or one of the IOR optics. I do not have any real long term use behind a Schmidt and Bender to give a solid opinion, but when I have used them on others guns, they seemed solid.

I have been running a 1.5x5 Leupold illuminated for a while now in a Larue mount and it has held up exceptionally well given the environments it has been used in. It sees constant use and gets an A+ in my book as an all around optic.






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TWR,

Thanks for the heads up. I will look around and see if they have some left at a decent price. I get a discount on leupolds, but sometimes when a retailer is closing them out they even beat the discount.

MS,

What are your pros/cons or tradeoffs with the scope vs red dots or holographic sights in CQB situations?

MM

Montana,

First off I will toss out this disclaimer. My experiences are unique and have led me to have very definate opinions on things, but that does not mean I am any sort of expert. I do not specialize in strictly CQB. It is simply one part of the pie for me.

I am very much a practical realist. I like gear that is simple to use under stress and can be operated at the level of unconcious competence.

CQB is often an interesting subject, since almost everyone believes they are some sort of CQB God. For example,you should see some of the arguements between former SEALs vs former SF guys on the "right" way to do it. It is highly entertaining to watch. Guys get very heated.

I would like to point out a couple of things that have influenced my optics selection.

A close range situation can very quickly become an extended range situation. For example, you may kick in a door to snatch some guy on a warrant or something. Classic CQB right? If the bad guy reads the script and stays inside, then yes. However if he jumps out a window, gets around the one guy covering that side of the house/structure and takes off through the neighborhood, then things just got interesting and ranges extended substantially. This is not theory, it happened.

Similar situations happen overseas. An intial coordinated attack may involve people up close and personal, with additional bad guys at distance with long guns/belt feds in commanding positions.

Many often associate "Urban" fights with CQB. That is simply not the case. You can get some very long shots in urban areas.

On that note, I would much rather have a fight at a distance than a close range fight. EVERYONE shoots good enough at close range. Proximity negates skill.

I have been issued red dot type optics such as EOTECHs and they are best for me at very close range. However they are not flexible. They only do one thing well and offer no target discrimination.

Fixed power optics such as the ACOG are great too as they allow me to discriminate my targets. I can look down the block and see if Haji is looking at us intently, with a cell phone in his hand getting ready to command detonate an IED on us. It also allows the user to make a better determination as to if a suspicious person is a threat or not. Perhaps (often the case) he is merely an interested observer.

Magnified optics also allow a shooter have a better chance of hitting a bad guy who only pokes part of his body around the corner down the block or at a window or dirt berm.

With all that said, the fixed power magnified optic such as a 4x ACOG is slower to get hits with at very close range such as in a meeting hall or courtyard. However I am still a fan of the 4x ACOG and prefer it over an EOTECH.

These are the reasons I finally settled on a low powered variable with illumination as an option for low light.

They are not as fast as a true red dot holographic type sight (EOTECH) for very close shooting. However with practice they are very close. Another advantage the Eotech has is head position. As long as the red dot is on the target, no matter where the dot is in relationship to the optical picture, you can get a hit. A magnified optic require a more consistant sight picture. With practice however that has not really presented a problem.

I keep my 1.5x5 optic on 1.5 power so I have the ability to shoot with both eyes open very quickly at close range.

When needed, I have the flexibilty to dial the optic up to take a more precise shot at greater distances.

BTW, in reference to my Leupold, I actually chose the VXIII over the MKIV. The reason is I did not like the exposed turrets on the MKIV. Turrets are great if you are dialing shots with a precision rifle, but I have found that shoving rifles between seats and piling kit on top of them is not conducive to keeping turrets on zero. In my line of work, guns and gear are always getting shoved where they can and the VXIII with caps covering the adjustment knobs was a better choice.

Another point. I use the same optic when at home on my Colt that I use for coyote hunting and as a general purpose truck/house gun.

It has proven to be ideal as a calling rifle for song dogs. The coyotes can come in at a dead run and be shot at extremely close ranges, or they may hang up out there 100 or 200 yards while trying to locate the source of the noise. The low powered variable has proven to be ideal. Practicing on jackrabbits is also a good and practical skill builder.

Using the same platform in a variety of sporting and work scenarios builds unconcious competence with the system.

That was rather long winded, but hopefully gets my view across clearly. Remember, I am only one guy, with one opinion, that has been colored by a unique career path. Others may have very different views on the subject.

Cheers.

I have tried 3 in my life. The Reflex sucks a bit, the aimpoint is great at close range but the 2 MOA dot gets a bit tougher for precision at 100 (but my eyes are not the best), the Nightforce 1x4 is not bad it seems to be a very tough rifle scope. Most people I talked to when I was buying this said the Leupold 1.5 x 5 was the way to go, but I had to be different. My "opinion" on the heads up display type aiming devices are that they are more easily destroyed than the aimpoint.

MS, that's solid advice. Although you may be just one guy and I get my opinions calling coyotes, it mirrors my experience. I still keep the Aimpoint simply for home defense or for using the AR when I need a shotgun for coyotes. They are just not designed for accuracy at range.
I hear guys say they can bang steel at 400 yards with their aimpoint/eo-thingy all day. That's fine but I can't get a clear enough picture of the target (coyote) at 150-200 yards to feel comfortable taking the shot. I can't imagine if my target was a bad guy or innocent bystander and I had to rely on my Aimpoint to determine it. Give me my 1.5-5 and I can clearly see what I need to.

or what may be the best compromise, EOtech of your choosing and the 3x magnifier (up to 5x if you don't mind off-brand) on a tip off mount.

MS,

Thanks for the perspective.......more or less aligns with my views, albeit w/o your experience.

Your comment on the different service branches having different views is humorous but right on; my BIL is an x-seal, now DOD and is coming to visit this weekend.......we always have a few good discussions and I have to end up selling him half my primer cache.

Good Luck & stay safe.

MM

Looking through one of those magnifiers is like looking through a toilet paper tube. You get the magnification, sure, but the field of view is so constricted that it degrades your ability to "scan" for targets. If you want magnification, a low powered scope is the way to go. I've had both illuminated Leupold 1.5-5's and Trijicon Accupoints and they are both excellent.

I'm sure they can. I can bang steel all day long at 300 yards with open sights with an AR, but it's just banging steel. I want a low powered variable for its versatility when dealing with two or four-legged predators.

My M4 wears an Aimpoint/Larue while it sits in the closet. If I'm taking it to the woodlot or anywhere else, it gets a Leupold switch.

When my 6.8 shows up, it may wear something a little different. I keep wanting to try one of the Vortex scopes to say I did.

George

I think Mackay made an excellent, and not often raised, point about why a low powered optic is a good choice: target discrimination. I have no trouble hitting targets with iron sights or red dots out to 300 yards; I do have trouble discriminating between targets.

Any of you guys look at Burris' new offering in the fixed 3X tactical? The model name escapes me right now, but it was all the buzz at the shot show. Supposed to be out this month.

Anyone get their hands on it?

Mackay,

When you get a chance would you let us know what reticle and tube diameter you prefer?

eh76

I had a VariXIII 1.5-5 and I like it. Wish I still had it for my new flat top upper. Here is a link to the Meopta 1-4. It's got some good reviews at AR15.com. EOTech has a heads up display reticle with a 5.56 reticle for shooting at extended ranges. Use the 3x or 4x magnifier and you have a pretty flexible system. You could go on and on the different systems for the AR. But I prefer the variable low power scope too depend on the application. Here's the link:

http://www.swfa.com/pc-9143-1134-meopta-1-4x22-meostar-r1-30mm-rifle-scope.aspx