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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,665 Likes: 6 |
For the guys that can do it, more power to them. And, there are guys that can do it, I admire them for it and say job well done. But then there are the folks that back up for the sake of taking long shots. I refuse to use those fellers and the word sportsman in the same sentence. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I"ll even argue the backing up, though I don't personally do it. But if what you are doing is not challenging, IE its boring, but you have the capability to do it, why not.
Now that I've said I don't back up, I DO sometimes setup to where my chosen shot will be a mid range to long range shot by choice. I've no problem with it and once again, as long as its a given that you can make it, WTF difference does it really make?
E- your last post explains what I read past... How do I avoid a thick, shorter running shot? Pretty simple. I don't pull the trigger. I refused to pull the trigger on an appx 200 yard shot on a decent muley buck that was killed later on and pushed 200 score wise. Not that I care about score but I'll never be lucky enough to see one like that again. Why? Moving shot and I didn't have the skill. Here is where I"ll bet you most of the naysayers would have all kinds of lead flying and that part I DON"T call hunting. Its flinging and hoping due to the size of the animal. BS I say. While I can control a lot of variables in a longer shot, I cannot control movement very well of moving game, ducking, dodging, speed up, slow down, add to that me having to free hand support the gun and move it at the same time... Nope. Not taking that chance for me unless its really close and a gimme... OR if its wounded, thats a totally different story.
And I'll give you what I didn't read earlier, I agree a 200 yard moving shot in the brush would take much more practice and skill to be 200% sure of making it, than it would to learn a 500 yard relaxed still shot in decent wind and even fairly iffy wind conditions.
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Posts: 24,665 Likes: 6 |
Jeff-
With respect to the backer-upper;
You show me ONE phugging long-range guy that hasn't missed at some point or another. I don't care how good, and how controlled, ANIMALS move, bullets deflect. If backing up is what it takes to keep hunting from becoming "boring" and a real chore, then perhaps it's time to take up crochet and crosswords.
WWP53D
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Back up!!! That I would never do, I set up were I can cover the most area. If a animal walk out at 10 yards I�d shoot it if it was a shooter, don�t really matter to me if its at 10 yards or at a 1000 yards if the conditions are perfect I�ll shoot.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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You show me ONE phugging long-range guy that hasn't missed at some point or another.
I haven�t yet� Why are you getting so hot??? 
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 35,900 |
"Never trust any man until you've seen him shoot at something dangerous or that he wants really badly at fifty yards or under." Ernest Hemingway
Last edited by BobinNH; 04/10/09.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7 |
Jeff-
With respect to the backer-upper;
You show me ONE phugging long-range guy that hasn't missed at some point or another.
Show me a close range hunter that has never missed... What's your point assuming you have one
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,665 Likes: 6 |
Point being there's more margin for error - that should be obvious for even the less-than-cerebral.
WWP53D
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,665 Likes: 6 |
Point being there's more margin for error - that should be obvious for even the less-than-cerebral.
WWP53D
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 35,900 |
Seems to me there are two kinds of long range shooters;the one's who "know"they can hit,and the one's who are,to some degree,"guessing". The one's who guess should not shoot.The one's knowing they can hit (because they've done it many times before),understand their equipment,and have burned the rounds to verify,are justified in shooting.
The really good LR shooters know when conditions are not right,and will back off the shot if in doubt.This experience is acquired only with thousands of rounds annually; a couple of hundred does not cut it.200 rounds a year through centerfire is warm-up,and hardly qualifies as "practice" although it's better than nothing.....but not by much.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Heres what I know...for a fact.
I recently attended a sports show in Salt Lake City, mainly to apply for some permits. But, while strolling through the numerous booths, I came across 3 that were pushing long range hunting. All three were peddling LR rifles, etc. One was the best of the west booth, another was manned by that John Burns IRRC.
Anyway, supposedly these guys are the "best" in the business, and only "take shots they know they can make".
But, you know what was funny??? While watching their videos, I can assure you they absolutely DO NOT take "only perfect shots under perfect conditions". I saw numerous semi-domestic moppy looking sheep being shot for the purpose of long range shooting. Pretty crappy to say the least, as most of them were shot at ranges not necessary, like I said, they were pretty much domestic sheep. Just practice.
Even more entertaining was the fact that a good number were shot squarely in the ASS, buttocks, or whatever you want to call the south end of a north bound critter. Good thing most were domestic or those critters would have been running around with legs swinging in every direction.
At another booth...they listed the specifics of every shot, something like...673 yards, ~15 MPH wind, about 19.5 inches of drift...oh, and the DOE ANTLEOPE WAS WALKING.
WTF? I dont call that a "controlled" situation, shooting under ideal conditions, or any of the other crap peddled by the LR nut-jobs who call that hunting.
Thats a fargin' joke...and its equally as repulsive that anyone who would call themselves hunters, find it necessary even in the slightest...to be forced to shoot DOE ANTELOPE at 673 yards. That right there is a sorry excuse for a hunter that cant get a standing shot on an antelope doe in Wyoming at short to very modest range. Plain ridiculous and those jokers were using those animals as live "practice", nothing more. Matter of fact, I watched a video where that Burns guy, openly encouraged hunters to use doe and cow permits as practice.
Sorry John, but I happen to believe that big-game animals like antelope, deer, and elk (both bucks and does) are much more than a pop-up target for you to "practice" on. To guys like him, the animals are the means for them to try to sell their warped sense of big-game "hunting" so they can sell a few over-priced rifles and some dumb videos. They dont care about the sport, certainly dont care about the animals, and obviously only care about their bottom line.
I will not stoop to that level to take a stand for their "right" to shoot walking antelope at 700-1000 yards. I dont want to be lumped in with assclowns like that, and I surely wont be supporting that kind of crap, or having to defend their "style" of hunting. Never have, and never will. Matter of fact, I'd quit hunting and join PETA before I supported them...and thats a given.
I found no redeeming qualities from these "experts" of long range shooting/"hunting" at the SLC expo. Only further cemented in my mind that even the so-called experts rarely "practice" what they "preach"...its a sad joke.
Last edited by BuzzH; 04/10/09.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7 |
Point being there's more margin for error - that should be obvious for even the less-than-cerebral. Point being there's more margin for error - that should be obvious for even the less-than-cerebral. We heard you the first time.. What about the margin of error for the guy that hasn't shot his rifle all year gets his rifle and bullets and hits the woods opening morning and misses a Deer at less than 50 yards.. Must be the rifle (happens ever year) so he brings it to me or someone else to check his scope to be sure that it is not off, because it was on last year.. Even for the less than cerebral it is apparent that long distance had nothing to do with the miss.. Again your point is???
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 11,224 Likes: 1 |
Point being there's more margin for error - that should be obvious for even the less-than-cerebral. I think there is more margin for error when hunters try to get to close, blows the stalk and ends up taking a shot at a running animal. And don't try to tell me that never happens. IMO taking a close shot at a skiddish animal can be as risky as taking a long shot at a clam one.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,792 |
Heres what I know...for a fact.
I recently attended a sports show in Salt Lake City, mainly to apply for some permits. But, while strolling through the numerous booths, I came across 3 that were pushing long range hunting. All three were peddling LR rifles, etc. One was the best of the west booth, another was manned by that John Burns IRRC.
Anyway, supposedly these guys are the "best" in the business, and only "take shots they know they can make".
But, you know what was funny??? While watching their videos, I can assure you they absolutely DO NOT take "only perfect shots under perfect conditions". I saw numerous semi-domestic moppy looking sheep being shot for the purpose of long range shooting. Pretty crappy to say the least, as most of them were shot at ranges not necessary, like I said, they were pretty much domestic sheep. Just practice.
Even more entertaining was the fact that a good number were shot squarely in the ASS, buttocks, or whatever you want to call the south end of a north bound critter. Good thing most were domestic or those critters would have been running around with legs swinging in every direction.
At another booth...they listed the specifics of every shot, something like...673 yards, ~15 MPH wind, about 19.5 inches of drift...oh, and the DOE ANTLEOPE WAS WALKING.
WTF? I dont call that a "controlled" situation, shooting under ideal conditions, or any of the other crap peddled by the LR nut-jobs who call that hunting.
Thats a fargin' joke...and its equally as repulsive that anyone who would call themselves hunters, find it necessary even in the slightest...to be forced to shoot DOE ANTELOPE at 673 yards. That right there is a sorry excuse for a hunter that cant get a standing shot on an antelope doe in Wyoming at short to very modest range. Plain ridiculous and those jokers were using those animals as live "practice", nothing more. Matter of fact, I watched a video where that Burns guy, openly encouraged hunters to use doe and cow permits as practice.
Sorry John, but I happen to believe that big-game animals like antelope, deer, and elk (both bucks and does) are much more than a pop-up target for you to "practice" on. To guys like him, the animals are the means for them to try to sell their warped sense of big-game "hunting" so they can sell a few over-priced rifles and some dumb videos. They dont care about the sport, certainly dont care about the animals, and obviously only care about their bottom line.
I will not stoop to that level to take a stand for their "right" to shoot walking antelope at 700-1000 yards. I dont want to be lumped in with assclowns like that, and I surely wont be supporting that kind of crap, or having to defend their "style" of hunting. Never have, and never will. Matter of fact, I'd quit hunting and join PETA before I supported them...and thats a given.
I found no redeeming qualities from these "experts" of long range shooting/"hunting" at the SLC expo. Only further cemented in my mind that even the so-called experts rarely "practice" what they "preach"...its a sad joke. So Buzz what make you think they are experts or best in the business? Is it because they have a TV show? That doesn�t make them experts. If an animal is walking I won�t shoot at it at 100 yards now would you? And if the wind is blowing I start chopping off yards in a hurry. I was with my boy last year and watched a nice buck at 700 yards walk out to 786 yards into heavy reprod, no wind at all but he just never gave the kid a broadside shot lots of off angle shots but not the shot we where looking for.
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Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7 |
Heres what I know...for a fact.
I recently attended a sports show in Salt Lake City, mainly to apply for some permits. But, while strolling through the numerous booths, I came across 3 that were pushing long range hunting. All three were peddling LR rifles, etc. One was the best of the west booth, another was manned by that John Burns IRRC.
Anyway, supposedly these guys are the "best" in the business, and only "take shots they know they can make".
But, you know what was funny??? While watching their videos, I can assure you they absolutely DO NOT take "only perfect shots under perfect conditions". I saw numerous semi-domestic moppy looking sheep being shot for the purpose of long range shooting. Pretty crappy to say the least, as most of them were shot at ranges not necessary, like I said, they were pretty much domestic sheep. Just practice.
Even more entertaining was the fact that a good number were shot squarely in the ASS, buttocks, or whatever you want to call the south end of a north bound critter. Good thing most were domestic or those critters would have been running around with legs swinging in every direction.
At another booth...they listed the specifics of every shot, something like...673 yards, ~15 MPH wind, about 19.5 inches of drift...oh, and the DOE ANTLEOPE WAS WALKING.
WTF? I dont call that a "controlled" situation, shooting under ideal conditions, or any of the other crap peddled by the LR nut-jobs who call that hunting.
Thats a fargin' joke...and its equally as repulsive that anyone who would call themselves hunters, find it necessary even in the slightest...to be forced to shoot DOE ANTELOPE at 673 yards. That right there is a sorry excuse for a hunter that cant get a standing shot on an antelope doe in Wyoming at short to very modest range. Plain ridiculous and those jokers were using those animals as live "practice", nothing more. Matter of fact, I watched a video where that Burns guy, openly encouraged hunters to use doe and cow permits as practice.
Sorry John, but I happen to believe that big-game animals like antelope, deer, and elk (both bucks and does) are much more than a pop-up target for you to "practice" on. To guys like him, the animals are the means for them to try to sell their warped sense of big-game "hunting" so they can sell a few over-priced rifles and some dumb videos. They dont care about the sport, certainly dont care about the animals, and obviously only care about their bottom line.
I will not stoop to that level to take a stand for their "right" to shoot walking antelope at 700-1000 yards. I dont want to be lumped in with assclowns like that, and I surely wont be supporting that kind of crap, or having to defend their "style" of hunting. Never have, and never will. Matter of fact, I'd quit hunting and join PETA before I supported them...and thats a given.
I found no redeeming qualities from these "experts" of long range shooting/"hunting" at the SLC expo. Only further cemented in my mind that even the so-called experts rarely "practice" what they "preach"...its a sad joke. If an animal is walking I won�t shoot at it at 100 yards now would you? And if the wind is blowing I start chopping off yards in a hurry. I was with my boy last year and watched a nice buck at 700 yards walk out to 786 yards into heavy reprod, no wind at all but he just never gave the kid a broadside shot lots of off angle shots but not the shot we where looking for. Jim Zumbo had a TV show and he claimed that he didn't know that an AR-15 had a legitimate sporting purpose and thought that game departments should ban them... TV show doesn't make you a qualified "expert"
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651 |
For the most part it doesn�t matter much to me what others do, but when it comes to killing dumb animals I have little tolerance for people who disrespect the game and wound animals as a result. Prepare for the shot, be it with a bow or a firearm, then do your best to make a clean kill. If you�re not sure, take a pass.
The longest shot I have ever taken was on a bull elk at 350 yards. These days I am prepared to take shots out to 600 yards with my 7mm and .300 magnums, less with the others. I�ve shot running coyotes from a few yards to 400 yards but I�ve missed my share, too. As a result I�m more comfortable taking a long shot at unspooked game than I am a running deer or elk at 50 yards.
As to the �you can always get closer� argument my experience is that yes, you can � sometimes. Other times you cannot.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2006
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joecool, jwp...
Judging by the line-up of people looking at the videos and listening to the line of crap they were laying down....I'd say a good number were thinking they were "experts". I've even heard people on this board make reference to them...and brag them up.
But, for the record...did you guys happen to notice the "'s around the word EXPERTS, when I referenced them???
But, heres the deal. Those guys sell the equipment, sell the videos, and are getting more than plenty of face-time with the public. They like the attention and they definately pass themselves off as experts. I mean they put the range time in, have the right equipment, and apparently get plenty of "practice" on living critters...have wind-gauge, range finder, and target turrets...will travel.
Likely just as "qualified" as most anyone else that shoots long-range on big-game.
I think the problem is, you want to throw them under the bus because its easy to do that, make them look like the exception. However, I think what I saw at the show, and in the videos, is pretty much business as usual for about 95% of the LR crowd.
To the 5% that really do know their stuff, have the ability to refrain from what I witnessed on the videos, etc., you need better representation.
Like it or not, THOSE TYPE OF LR HUNTERS are representing YOUR style of hunting, not mine. Pretty sorry representation if you ask me, and exactly why I won't...and can't...defend them. Much like the way you have both trashed them with your replies.
Pretty easy to stereo-type when the shoe fits 95% involved....
Nothing personal...just the facts.
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Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,985 Likes: 7 |
John Burns has caught so much flak on http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/ that he doesn't post there any more. His use of a BDC is not the best way to go. With a BDC how do you compenste for different alltitudes? There are other problems as well with his approach I highly question your assertion that the "shoe fits 95%" of the true Long Range Hunters, it may be accurate for 95% of the wanta be's
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,792
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,792 |
Buzz you have to remember those guys are making a TV show the need that shot or they have no TV program. I'm not making a TV show so I don't need to take a bad shot.
That said I really don't care how anybody eles hunts as long as its legal and they are putting there best into it.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 16,032
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 16,032 |
I didn't post this to start a war between the long range clan and the short range only sorts....
All I meant to point out is that most of the animals I prefer to take, the four year old plus animals, in the places where I hunt, public land, don't seem to cooperate much when it comes to allowing me to shoot at them at say 400 or 500 yds.
Younger animals yes. But not the older ones.
So the question is, have you found this to be true ? What sort of shots do you find yourself having to take for such animals ? How do you you make them ? What equipment do you use ? E To answer your question and stay out of the "Can I hit Paris with my railroad gun from here?" arguement  YES. Older animals did not get to be old by being stupid. Movement that makes a young animal just stare trying to figure out what they though they saw move will send an older one packing without hesitation. The shots I sometimes have to make if I take them are hurry up and shoot without all the fiddling around getting set up. If you have somehow attracted the attention of your game you better take a crack at it right now or it ain't going to be there by the time you get ready. BCR
Quando Omni Moritati
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