Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting 280 ackley improved

Nice load but pretty slow compared to what a 7mm RM will do.

Hillbilly,
Thanks for the load data. I was wondering about where to start and checked the thread and your post answers the question. I have been workong with a box of 120 TTSX's. I think I'll start them out around 59g @ .050" back and try 210M's and see what takes place. 3300 and change (when the workup is done) would be nice especially if I am as happy with the load and it's accuracy as you are. Sure hope my rifle likes it.

Dave

Actually I believe I asked the original question sparking the debate between the .280 AI and 7RM, and it was not about which one was faster.

Obviously the 7RM has more case capacity and is going to be faster, the question I posed was whether the 7RM was that much faster, as was inferred, that it was a 1000 yard rifle while the .280AI allegedly was somehow deficient.

The issue was whether the 7RM was as efficient as the .280AI and whether the marginal performance increase was worth the extra powder and recoil.

MuleDeer put up some very good information which I would have thought would have quieted the argument. The fact that was overlooked by the 7RM fans that the .280AI has a higher SAAMI pressure limit than the 7RM and according to MD, the fact that the 7RM was somewhat limited in going higher by a wider pressure variation.

Undetoured, the 7RM fans apparently ignored all that and continued on with the nonexistent argument that this was a velocity debate alone. In fact we see in the post quoted above that the 7RM fans still want to limit the .280AI to 7RM pressure.

The 7RM is faster. If you stay with safe loads(the same pressure) The 7Rm is faster. It has more case capacity!! DUHHHH!!

Duhhhh!! indeed.

There must be a special fan club for the 7RM. Although a great cartridge it has attained mythical status far beyond reality, it is the cartridge that as Nigel Tufnel put it.. "Ours is better, it goes to 11".

Great stuff, carry on fellas.

Coyote,
I have both and they are two totally different animals. 120's in my 7RM is not an option. Throats way to deep, Besides with the case capacity of the 7 Mag it's better suited for heavier bullets anyway.
Spicing up the thread with the comparison doesn't bother me and adds other things to discuss but I think all of us know that case capacity trumps type of caliber in this case especially, Trouble is I don't think there is any way I can chamger 7 Mag brass in my 280 Ackley.

Dave

That load in my 24" rifle clocks 3370 fps. I use WW nickel brass and CCI200's. Accuracy is good, but my 9-twist rifle prefers the heavier bullets. The 120 V-Max and B.Tip will do 3/4", the 140's and 150's will go half-inch or better.

I started at 59.0 grains and worked up in 1/2 grain increments until the accuracy got to where I liked it.

I look forward to seeing your results.

My rifle is a 1-9 twist (Shilen SS #3) and it doesn't like 140 grain bullets (about 1MOA ) but loves the 150's (Sub 1/2 inch just like the 120's)

I have read all of the posts and agree with some and have reservations about others. I will say that my Rem. 700 Sendero, rebarreled from 25-06 to 280AI, truly is a shooter. It sports a 26", SS, Pac Nor bbl. It has a hollad QD brake, very loud, that reduces recoil to nearly nothing. This bbl. has not been glass bedded but the Sendero stock, HS Precision, supports the action and recoil lug nicely. I load 56.0gr. of IMR4831 in Norma cases that are neck turned and completely prepped. I load Nosler 140gr. BT and Hornady 139gr. SST with same powder drop. This rifle has the trigger lightened to 2#. I have campaigned this rifle at competition egg shoots, 200 and 300 yds. It is classified as a custom rifle with a Leupold 6.5-20 scope. It does all that I ask it to do. As long as I do my part, of course. Muzzle velocity is right at 3000 fps. No, this is not blistering speed. But when I have been in the shoot offs against 6BR bench rest rifles, who cares about speed. Accuracy is the criteria. My 280AI is one tack driven machine. Its' nick name is "Schutzenboominlouder". Yes, it is one noisy rig! Good 'nuff! Plus, I have shot 'yotes at better than 500 yds. that never heard the shot. Nor did they complain about not being dead enuf. Boominlouder speaks, 'yote takes a dirt nap! This rifle is not a very comfortable rig to haul around in the veld. But, when I want something to reach out and touch 'em I always go back to my 280AI. You can discuss muzzle velocity, manufacturer quality, bullet BC and SD all day. If ya' gotta have a 280AI, just go for it. I did and truly enjoy shootin' my rig. Is it better than a 7 mag? Don't really know and frankly that is not an issue with me. I wanted a 280AI and I had Darrel Holland put this rig together for me. It shoots, I like it, nuff said!

FB,

Your post has some merit but the thing that sets folks off - me included - is the fact that ~ every other month someone posts their 280 AI data and it magically is faster than the 7mm RM. The latest Nosler does no justice to the issue either. They list 280 AI data that really pushes the 7mm RM. Compare the 280 AI data with the 7 SAUM - they are ballisitic twins except, I'd likely give the SAUM a grain or so advantage, plus the 280 AI data was shot from a 26" barrel.

I love the 280 - been shooting one since 1981-82. It is a wonderful cartridge. But it is still has 10-15 grains less case capacity than the 7mm RM. To imply that the 280 in any variation somehow approaches the 7mm RM is a bit far fetched. I'd also suggest looking at the 7mm RM data - most of it is 58-59,000 PSI - still well short of the 61K SAAMI pressure.

For normal everyday lifting I love the 280, but I admit to being a full fledge 7mm Rm looney as well. Interestingly, I bought both a 280 and 7mm RM in tang saftey Ruger's within 1 year of each other in the early 1980's. Still have both of them, although the 280 needs a new barrel but is semi-retired.

I am not trying to figure out which one is faster...I KNOW the answer.Go back and read the posts...ddduuuhhh....what a moron.

Tell ya what,257, you don't like the phuquin posts, don't read them..........I'm sure you can figure THAT out......ddduuhhhh.Of course, how can we POSSIBLY be certain of that.....

Ill disagree.If you prep your rifle for a important hunt.And lets say you loose your ammo.The ability to buy factory ammo isn't going to do you much good.You know what your handloads are doing.You wont know what storebought ammo will shoot like or what the drops will be.You loose your ammo.
Your screwed.

Theres been some very good points made here for and against.
I seem to remember a test that Kenny Jerret did many years ago.He fired a 280 AI with a 140g bullet and a 7mm RM with a 140g bullet into a hanging white bed sheet at very close range.
The RM had a large number of unburnt grains of powder at the bottom of the sheet.
The 280 AI had two.
As a general rule of thumb.A more efficient round is quicker to tune for long range.
In the end the differences will be minor.
The 280AI is Parker Ackleys second best round.The fact you can get factory ammo for it now makes it a no brainer.
dave

The ability to buy factory ammo, for most people, means they can buy the same kind of ammo they lost or left at home. For handloaders it means they can at least buy ammo, take it to a range for a re-zero, and still go hunting. In most cases the result will be the same � meat will be made or not depending on factors unrelated to the particular rifle or ammo type used.



It�s a �no brainer� decision for me, to be sure. 7mm RM all day long.

You can argue the .280 Rem AI is more efficient or has better accuracy potential or is easier to tune, but I�m not buying any. In the end it comes down to cases.

Here�s 10 shots from my 7mm RM, shot in a 40mph crosswind:



Unfortunately I do not have a picture of the target where the 7mm RM put 3 of the 160g north Forks into a single cloverleaf measuring less than a caliber between centers.

Nice shooting!My .280AI groups between 1/2" and 3/4" at 200yds with 140 Accubonds and RL-22.That works for me.I'm sure lots of people get groups like that(or better!) from their own rifles,chambered for different cartridges.That's great,I'm only concerned with what my cartridge choice will do for me,and I'm happy with the .280AI's performance. Monashee

Monashee,
Caliber comparison discussions are fun to read. This thread is interesting and I have learned at least as much about a 7MM Remington Magnum as a 280 Ackley and that if you loose your ammo on a hunt you can either buy some at the local gun store and if you cannot find any borrow the guides gun or spot for a buddy until he tags out then use his.
My problem would be that if my ammo was lost my duffle would be gone too and I wouldn't have any clothes except what I walked into the airport with.
Hope this weather straightens out over here so I can get the rest of my hay down and bailed so I can make going to shoot a priority again and report on more 280 Ackley load development. HillBilly Bear's 120g load recommendations are already brewed up I just gotta find time to go burn some gunpowder. Next week hopefully.

Dave

Dave,let me know how you make out with the 120s,I've been meaning to try them.I'd also like to try the VV165 powder,but its very hard to get in Western Canada! Good Luck....Monashee

Monashee,
N-165 works pretty well in my rifle. There have been several guys post loads using that powder that have been real good especially with 140's. Looking at the powder rate burn chart I cannot help but think that RE22 would be as good but I haven't tried it.
Hopefully I can get out to try the 120's this week. As soon as I do the results will be here. If my NULA likes them and performs like HillBillyBears rifle she'll go Pronghorn hunting this fall with H4350 shoving 120TTSX's.

Dave

Why do people always discount the fact that you can still shoot factory ammo through an Ackley?

The whole "theory" that shooting a popular cartridge is better logistically is very flawed. Anyone going on a high dollar hunt that loses ammo can always use the guide's or PH's rifle. If its a local hunt many people bring two rifles, just in case one goes bad.

A bigger factor is that brass is easier to get and cheaper for the more mainstream cartridges, if you shoot a lot thats a big bonus....

Exactly,simply purchase some 280 rem ammunition,sight in,and go hunting.



280 rem brass is not hard to get,and it isn't that expensive.

From what I've seen, 280 brass is cheaper than 7 mag brass too.