Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting A-Frame vs. Partition

One story so far, (I have this friend)



What?

Please, more about the several times.

Personally,
I think these Bullshit stories about Partitions 'coming apart' are from folks that don't realize(or care) that the front end of a Partition is designed to fragment, letting the core pass on through and do its job-which they do rather well, I might add.

Yep, those weak partition bullets do come apart on elk and I can prove it. I shot two elk with the .375 partition and both bullets were all mashed up after they went through. The first busted a shoulder, a little bit of spine about two feet long, and you could see that stubby little piece that was left through a tiny slit in the off-side hide of the hindquarter where it had almost penetrated.

The second time the damn bullet got all mashed up on just a leg bone and stopped after only plowing a hole through the heart, lungs, and a couple of feet of intestines and ribs. This one didn't exit either.

Don't know what's wrong with those bullets but I figure if I shoot another half a dozen elk with them maybe I can figure it out.

Haven't seen hundreds but I'd estimate close to a hundred and have never seen anything like that myself. In fact, my buds and I have shot Ballistic Tips into 15-20 critters and have no stories like that. To be more factual, I shoot 150 BT in my 30-06 Encore and 308 Bellm Contender pistols - and have shot through several buck shoulders at close range. At slower velocities, the BT work fairly well.

I also have 30-40 recovered Partitions shot into dirt/clay banks with 7, 300, 338 mags and all manner of cartridges from 338 on down and have never seen one come apart. Front gone - yes, bulged rear - yes, shrapnel from the front core - yes, come apart - never. My average weight of all my Partition bullets is 62-65% - not many lower, not many higher. If the front core is gone, and the rear core stays intact, they will weigh 62% almost exactly regardless of caliber, initial size, etc. I don't ever recall seeing the "partition" rupture - even when shot from 10 feet into dirt/clay at magnum velocities.

I'd be curious to know what year this was. I don't recall Nosler bullets being used in factory loadings till ~ the past 10 years. I could be wrong.................

Sounds like he just didn't pull the trigger hard enough.

End of story??? It aint over till we say it is well if this aint a bullet proof testimony(no pun intended) then i dont know what is

Interesting people claim that the partition is "designed" to lose the front portion of the bullet after impact. Is there really a benifit to this?

If the lead/copper is being peeled off the front of the bullet hasn't the lead/copper lost it's forward progress in and around the wound channel? So it isn't like you now have multiple pieces flying through the vitals causing any more damage then the "main" portion of the bullet. Just my opinion but what would the real downside be to bonding the front portion of the partition other then a slight increase in cost? Obviously Nosler has the experience to get it done if they wanted.

Yes, the Partition was originally designed so that the front 1/3 (or so) would pretty much fly apart. This was because John Nosler had shot a lot of big game animals, and wanted a bullet that would work on deer as well as bigger game. He had already noticed that a bullet that partially fragmented killed deer-sized game a lot quicker.

This has been written about a lot before now> If you want proof of that assertion I can provide it. But the concept that 90-100% weight retention is necessary to kill big game--or is even better than partial fragmentation--is a very recent notion, and in my experience, quite wrong.

Yes, the lead/copper fly off the front of the bullet and damage more vital tissue.

In bigger bullets, Nosler has moved the partition forward in recent years. In any bullet from the 9.3 286 up they will retain 85-95% of their original weight, and penetrate about as far as any expanding bullet. This is because those bullets are normally used on bigger than deer-sized game--though I have also shot quite a few "deer-sized" animals with Partitions in sizes from 250-grain .338 on up to know they kill quite quickly.

Gotcha. I still think there could be a little more taper to the jacket above the partition to support more frontal mass even without bonding. I always thought they lost the front section too early but maybe that was just the particular weights and calibers I used them in.

The front end varies according to the caliber and weight. In smaller calibers they're designed so the front end is just about guaranteed to disappear, because the jacket is so thin. In heavier, larger bullets the jacket is thicker, and the partition moved further forward, so that even if the front core leaves the rest of the bullet will keep going.

As a matter of fact, most of the bullet makers adjust various things according to caliber and intended use. Even in "ordinary" bullets the core alloy is often different in heavier bullets.

So it really isn't valid to judge all bullets of a certain make or design on one diameter/weight.

The more "parachute" the less the penetration will ultimately be... in general. The Partition concept, for being as simple as it is, was really well thought out and probably way ahead of its time considering that it is still a standard against which others are compared. The SAF which was later "invented" to improve upon the highly reputed Partition is actually inferior is some ways in its performance since it retains the front core. The expanded shape is good for penetration since it tends to ball. That, as Ray (atkinson) said helps it to slide through. However, it still often fails to penetrate as far as a Partition which sheds the core and peels back into a blunter, close to original diameter projectile. The Partition gives you the best of two worlds (if you happen to want both); a good "explosion" followed by deep penetration.

Brucie: at 300-400 yards, even a "old school" Interlock should be working perfectly too. Pretty hard to be convinced that a Partition would be coming apart way out there. (Now there are some "90s bullets" that may not be opening very well anymore when they lose some speed.)

The other thing that very few people are apparently aware of is that the REAR core of A-Frames isn't bonded. This is why the rear end of AF's is often bulged widely: The rear core shifts forward upon impact.

Also, the rear jacket of AF's often isn't as thick as that on Nosler Partitions, and is made of pure copper, not the tougher copper alloy used by Nosler. This is why you rarely see the rear of a Partition bulged like the rear of an AF.

On rare occasions I have even seen the non-bonded rear core of an A-Frame break through the partition. In that case the bullet really flattens, and hence doesn't penetrate very far. But that's uncommon.

The biggie with either is not to use too light a bullet for the game/velocity--just as it is with any bullet, even the supposed super-bullets.

I think if a guy is an "extreme range" shooter and NEEDS a higher BC bullet (to pick a number, 90% of us don't),or for braining elephants or raking Cape buffalo stem to stern,or some other highly specialzed shooting or hunting activity,he may be able to see an advantage to some other bullet over a Partition.

But,the more I read this and other threads on other bullets,with their expansion "issues",slipped cores,etc.,and aspirin tablet expansion characteristics,and the more I think about it and look back on using the Partition over the years,I understand why I just reach for a box of Partitions and go hunting most of the time.

Oh, I've found some that the bases have sorta bulged on,and one that spun out the core when it deflectd before impact;sometimes they exit,and sometimes they don't.Certain weights and calibers I just never seem to recover.

But by and large,long range or short,at high close range velocity or longish where velocity has fallen off,with a quartering-on, broadside,or angling shot from the last rib,(and so long as I've chosen one suited to the animal)when I pull the trigger with a Partition,I know what's going to happen.There are no surprises and animals end up pretty thoroughly dead.

Which is why I'm mystified by allegations of "failure","blow ups",and "inadequate penetration".From the depths of my inexperience, I can count the other big game bullets I trust as much on two or three fingers.None of them have plastic tips

Yeah, about the only way I've been able to get a Partition to "fail" is to hit something in front of the animal. I had one 250-grain .338 Partition "fail" to open after it hit a thorn branch in front of an eland. The bullet went in sideways, which is not conducive to expansion.

I have found a few Partitions with the rear end bulged slightly, but nothing like the rear end bulges on A-Frames.

I have never recovered a 200-grain .30 caliber Partition from an animal, and I have shot a lot of game with them in various sizes up to 800 pounds or so, with cartridges ranging from the .30-06 to the .300 Weatherby.

One did get stopped somewhere inside a bull elk after I put the bullet right up the wazoo at 375 yards (the bull had already been hit once), but we didn't find it while field-dressing. I have put one right into the big shoulder joint of a 6x6 bull at 75 yards and not only did the bullet break the joint but it went on through the chest cavity and exited the far ribs--and that bullet was started at 2950 fps from a .300 Winchester Magnum. Maybe it lost the front core or it lost 30% of its weight--BUT WHO CARES?

John, would you know how the length of the rear portion compares on the 200gr to the 180gr .308? Are they the same or is the 200 longer for a little better penetration?

7mm 160gr vs 150gr vs 140gr?

Sorry one more you might know-

.338 210 vs 225

And after 6 elk neither have I.

300 win mag.

The heavier a Partition is in a given caliber, the longer the rear of the bullet behind the partition. Or at least this has been the case with every one I've ever sectioned.

In some calibers the partition is a LOT further forward on the heavier bullets. This is the case with the 260 and 300 grain .375's.

Yep makes sense. I have a box each of 140, 150, 160 7mm that I may break the dremel out on and see how they compare. I was hoping that as the weight and sectional density goes up for a given caliber the percentage of the rear section would increase as well. But that probably isn't the case until you get to the larger calibers huh?