Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Why do I need a guide?

It is a serious PIA, one I realize won't likely change but I had to ask for discussion sake.
I fully understand hiring a guide in another country but in your own country it just makes no sense.

Why only hunters and in a few instances, fishermen but anyone can wander off into the back country to hike or pick berries etc totally on ones own.

Anyhow, I posted this to get some good discussion going, not to rant or troll. Off season idleness kicked in, and it was time to inquire as I have been thinking about this for quite some time.

Have a great season folks, catch some fish and hopefully all who applied for hunting draws get what they need.
Due to work commitments, I'm only hunting birds this fall, grouse, pheasants and waterfowl. Should keep me busy though.

One of the reasons stated for the hiring of guides for out of state/ non-resident hunters is the extra costs incurred by the host in locating and rescueing "LOST HUNTERS" unfamiliar with the area.

Guide and outfitter agendas aside, sure i'd like to hunt Whitetails in the breaks in SW Manitoba or the grouse and woodcock in Quebec but I've got all the sporting opportunities I need here in SW Ontario.

Now the cost of Rocky Mountain Bighorn or Dall ram, that's another subject...

Revenue from hunting licences has never paid the bill for wildlife management in B.C. The total costs are supported from monies from within the Provincial general tax base. Non-resident Canadians do not contribute to the general tax base here or in other provinces. Simply put the B.C. Government wants you to leave more money behind (guide fees e.g.) so that a portion will find it's way into the tax base. Of course the guide outfitters will support that concept and always have but I don't know that they originated the concept. Allowing residents to get permits for accompanying non-residents is one of the last of the reciprocal arrangements (not formalized at all and could disappear anytime ) that exist and it is really no more than a courtesy.
At one time we used to get a deal on Alberta bird licences. That disappeared many years ago.

I too am quite happy with the selection of wildlife available to hunt here in Alberta. Each province and territory has it's own bounty of game, some the same animals, others different. It just seems odd that as Canadians, we have to spend incredible amounts of money to hunt our own country.

Stocker and others seem to have hit it on the head, it is a money issue driven mainly by the Guide Assoc in each province, more so I think than by the Provincial Govts trying to top up the coffers. I wasn't suggesting paying less for the tags, just not hiring a guide. The govt makes the bucks from the tag sales.

I'm not anti guide/outfitter, if I were to hunt in another country I would expect to hire a guide/PH and expect Non Res Aliens in Canada to do the same.

Anyway, its been a good discussion, no blood drawn I think and as it is now Sunday evening lets have this one close. Thanks for the opinions.
Jeff

Exactly,we as residents of Alberta pay taxes that build and maintain the roads,pay the forestry staff,game wardens,etc to maintain our roads,forest,and to monitor the hunting a fishing in our provinces.I don't feel obligated to offer hunting to people from other provinces unless they pay more towards our province and the maintaining of our resources and facilities.The extra $100 or so for a license does not pay their share.

Revenue from hunting licenses has never paid the bill for wildlife management because it never got the opportunity to do so. Instead, it went right into general revenue where it was then allocated to various projects and administration. That the monies for wildlife management came from general revenue, is a red herring.
Having said that, I see no reason to not charge more for non-residents (Canadian or otherwise) to hunt but also see no reason to mandate the hiring of a guide/outfitter other than to satisfy the Association. GD

I would be perfectly content to drop the guide requirement,but raise the cost of non resident tags by a few hundred dollars in return.Let the non residents pay their share.

greydog:
The fish and wildlife budget has exceeded licence revenue by a large margin for a lot of years. The budget is subsidized by general revenue. No red herring there at all except in your mind

I'm going to assume you have a better source than I can find for this. The budget doesn't even list Fish and Wildlife expenditures or revenues as a separate item. The Ministry of the environment is so all-encompassing that it's pretty difficult to separate out Fish and Wildlife spending from amongst all the other Evironmental/Parks/Special Strudies spending. In the Ministryof the Evironment revenues, hunting and fishing licences are not listed as a separate item. In the overall budget they are undoubtedly part of the 2 1/2 billion in revenues listed under "other licences and fees". It would take me months to sort it out but I'll try and get to it.GD

Within the Ministry the greatest part of licence revenues is for water licences. Hunting and fishing licences are a drop in the bucket by comparison. I worked for and maintain contacts in the Ministry.

Are you sure stocker?I pay well over $200,some years $300 for various licences and tags.My water licence is $36 for 5 years! Monashee

Monashee: but you aren't B.C. Hydro or Alcan with their huge dams or a commercial/industrial user or farm irrigator or major city I'd guess. I don't know if any of those escape significant user fees. Individual domestic use is relatively low priced as you generally supply your own works. Start by looking at the total number of resident hunters. Somewhere under 100,000 now, I think closer to 70,000. Some are seniors like me and we get a cheaper basic licence for both hunting and fishing . Many of them buy no species licences as bird hunters or only one to four. I'd guess a provincial average for residents is closer to $100.00 each or thereabouts. Non-residents higher of course but much fewer of them. All combined might pay the base salaries and field operating costs of the C.O. Service alone. That still leaves fisheries staff, wildlife staff, administrative staff from Victoria through almost every office in the Province, senior management right to the deputy Minister level, building rentals for offices and warehousing , vehicle leasing, equipment acquisition (other than cars and trucks, all leased and that ain't cheap) but including boats, quads, snow-mos, aircraft/helicopter rentals .etc.. It would be a far stretch to cover those from fishing licence sales.

Its a revenue and a liability issue.

They know that their wild game is a valuable resource that people will pay through the nose to acquire, and that there is a lot more money to be made for both the gov't and local economies if people can't "DIY" it. Of course they can't do that w/ those who live in that province cuz they're the tax payers.

They also don't need the bad publicity of some know-nothings getting lost and dying in their wilderness.

I'm a state's rights guy, so while it is disappointing, I shrug and figure that they can charge whatever they want to, and I'll take my money elsewhere unless whatever they have is valuable enough that I think it is worth my while to hire a guide.

It's pretty simple to me. If you want to hunt a province unencumbered by provincial non resident regulations, then move to that province and become a resident, with all the positive and negative things that come with that province. I don't expect other provinces to freely share their natural resources with me, so why should they expect that of my province?

I wouldn't worry to much about regulations this summer and autumn. The AUPE that represent 125 fish and wildlife officers announced that they wouldn't be able to patrol in a proactive manner since of budget cut backs. Unions just do what they want I guess. LOL

That is my point: I can and have moved to several provinces, become a resident with all the hunting/fishing opportunities as a resident without doing anything other than moving/living there for x amount of months there. What is the difference between that and being born and raised a Canadian and being able to hunt as a Canadian across Canada without requiring an Outfitter/Guide? FWIW, I chose to retire from the Canadian Forces in Alberta because Alberta offers what I see as the best hunting ops for me and have no desire to relocate again. Just thinking outside the box as a Canadian.

I would like to know for sure on the Sask hunting thing...I have heard that it isn't true as well. We go every year and it would suck if that had to stop. I am sure local businesses will voice their opinions soon if that happens...there is alot of money dumped into the local economy the small towns when the nonresident hunters come. I know for our group we dump a couple thousand dollars into the locals pockets between gas and lodging for a week.

On the other hand I do see it from their point of view...meaning the sportsman, not the guides/outfitters.

AS for the guide thing, personally I think they should be limited in Alberta to guiding only on crown land/forestry, and only for animals that residents can get general tags for...if residents have to put in for a draw for an animal, the outfitters should not be given tags for it.

I dont see anything wrong with the hunter host type of program either, its good to be able to have your family/friends come in to hunt with you.

The difference is that wildlife is owned and controlled by individual provinces. If someone wants what a province has, move there. You don't want to relocate, but that is your choice.

It seems like this is a discussion involving two-and-a half provinces! B.C., Alberta and Sask. Oh yeah, almost forgot Que jumped in once or twice.

I've lived (really with my wife and family)in four Canadian provinces: N.B.(my native province, Quebec for about 20 years, N.S. for four, and Ont. for 30). As to hunting opportunities (variety of game, costs, etc)I'd rate Ont. first, N.B. second, N.S. third and Que. last because we lived in the Montreal area and had to go too far to hunt. Now my wife and I live in Central Ontario and hunting on Crown Land is within a hour's drive from my door. Private land hunting is well within one-half hour, depending on species. For moose (adult), I have to go to the N.W. of the province to be assured a tag. That's expensive. Bear hunting is close by as well as coyote hunting. I don't hunt deer much any more as it's difficult to get permission on private land that's not over crowded. To a certain extent, same goes for public land. Few residents hunt bear so there are lots of opportunities and I bait on both private and Crown land. It's now my favorite hunt because basically I'm alone in the woods, except sometimes with a partner. I wolf hunt in the same area as I bear hunt, only later during winter months. I've NO lack of opportunities to hunt in my province. I'm also a member of a well known gun range, so I've no lack of opportunity to shoot as well. I'm a rich man (not really - but you know what I mean)

The policy of the Ontario Gov't has been, for several years, to make the Ministry of Natural Resources (hunting and fishing dept's)self sustaining. It has meant some cuts but by and large they've succeeded. I've no complaints about that, and no need to hunt in the rest of Canada as we have an ample supply of big game in our province. Although, I nearly went to Que. this past spring for a bear hunt on a zec that is only 4hrs. from here. On a Zec I didn't need an outfitter. The only reason I decided against it was because a partner I was counting on was unable to go because of other committments.

The only restrictions on my hunting activities are time and finances. I assume it's the same for all hunters, worldwide. I really have no complaints.

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

interesting topic legislators legislate driven of course by the squiky wheel guides outtfitters ..burocrats dominate politions we can try to chane them but there is now death taxes and user fees good luck .....a spinnnnnnn off topic why do i need adifferent drivers licence because i move to a different provencefor 6 months ...ba humbug.