Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Half-inch groups

Probably the most accurate statement about anyone who shoots and measures their targets, including myself. Best group I ever shot was with a reload that averaged the worst I've ever reloaded. Measured .1595", the average with that reload was over 2". It just shouldn't have happened but that one group did.

Ain't that the truth.

I've waded through this whole thread just to make an observation or maybe two.



Here's a group #1 son shot, off of a 40 year old sand bag, with my old 1965 M600 in 6mm Rem. It's still mechanically a stock rifle and hasn't been back to the factory for anything (including a safety repair).



I would venture to say this group is well under .5" at 100 yards (1" grid), but the remarkable thing about it is the 100 gr Rem Core Lokt out of R-P brass (I have Norma brass and it doesn't shoot any better than R-P brass) with a Blue Dot load and neck sized on a Lee collet die. The gun will usually shoot around 1" at 100 yards, with proper reloads. When I was a lot younger, it would shoot those "cover it with a dime" groups with fair regularity. Considering it only has an 18.5" barrel, it does pretty good for a $75 gun.

Here's the way I shoot now, at 65 years of age.



It's a 3/4" center to center group at 100 yards with a 139 gr Hornady PSP, Rem 9 1/2, R-P brass with 68.0 gr of IMR 4350. The M700 7mm Mag is a year older than the M600 and it has been shooting the same load for 44 years. Norma brass doesn't shoot any better than R-P in it either.

The furthest distance I have is the south fence line that is 1800 feet long. The problem is, it's all trees. So, I only have areas where I can get a 300 yard shot at the max. Why would anyone suggest that I need to shoot/practice at distances greater than what I can see? An accurate load at 100 yards is sufficient for my purposes and the other is only "pie in the sky by and by".

With "hunting" grade rifles, there's a big difference between the occasional sub-half-MOA group and being able to print those groups consistently. I consider that I had a banner day at the range two days ago when my 22-250 printed a best group measuring 0.23 in and my oldest 270 Win printed 0.25 in -- both with factory ammo. (Measured traditionally with calipers across the widest outside edges and subtracting the caliber). Will they both do that consistently? Only on my BEST days and with good conditions at the range, and that's fine with me because the important thing is knowing each rifle's THEORETICAL accuracy potential if I do my job correctly and do so under ideal conditions. THAT level of familiarity and experience with each firearm builds confidence...

Having said that, I do expect every centerfire hunting rifle I own to print one-inch groups (or better) consistently -- or I won't own it for long. Given the high quality of many of today's rifles, there's little reason to settle for less assuming you're capable of finding the best load for each individual firearm.

I think Gene noted a dime is about .700" in diameter, if a group is covered by a dime, that's an outside to outside group, not a center to center group. If you subtract .243" from .700", it was shooting <.50" with fair regularity.

Of course, I didn't shoot Blue Dot loads. I used 52 gr of Norma N205 with 85 gr Nosler Zipedos and I just recently bought 2 boxes of 75 gr Zipedos to try again. Too bad I haven't had any N205 in years.

one of the consistently most accurate hunting rifles I ever saw was the year Remington made their classic in 250 savage. A fellow was shooting 3 bullets thru those little .05mm thick plastic stakes that come in your tomatoes to tell you what kind of big boy or better boy you have purchased. He had a nice Swarovski on top of it in some type of stout QD steel rings, and several of these little plastic stakes with 3 bullet holes all touching in them. I have no idea if it was bedded but it was the original barrel....I wish he had wanted to sell that rifle....

I have two rifles (I used to have three) that will shoot far better than that, every time. The problem is finding a "good rifleman" and a "good day".
Seriously, they will. But between my mistakes and the wind, I don't expect the best every time.

a 1/2" shootin 338 rum ?

This sums it up well!

I'm a bit of an accuracy nut. I sold a .22-250 varmint rifle that I could only get to 1/2" groups (consistently) because I had a .223 that will keep all holes touching on a bad day � and on a good day there is only 1 hole.

I really like the accuracy of my first generation stainless-stalker but I've never found a factory round that will group inside an inch & a half. Handloads will get this down to 1/2-5/8", but I went elk hunting with factory loads in September without concern. A 1.5" group was good enough for staying in the kill-zone out to 700 or so yards & where I was headed I knew shots on elk would be under 300 yards. A half-inch group wasn't needed. In fact, I shot my 6x6, 316 7/8" bull standing still, broadside all of 27 feet from my muzzle. (My compliments again to Greg Gilchrist, Lake Upsata Outfitters for GREAT calling.)

Since I grew up varmint hunting & like being able to hit targets others can almost see, I strive to have very accurate rifles but some rifles just aren't accurate. Most times these are good enough since most "woods hunting" means a 250 yard shot is an extreme shot. Still, I know how to shoot & will find just how accurate a rifle is. I've found most are not as accurate as their owners like to claim. Virtually all big-game rifles I've handled will group under 2" with the right ammunition. Most will group under 1.5" on a good day with the optimal ammunition. Only about 1/3 of factory, sporter-weight rifles I've had to the range will group under 1" with the ammunition we had available (factory or custom for that gun). This is range shooting under good conditions. Half-inch groups with big-game rifles? Yes, I've shot them, and I've seen others shoot them, but not with many rifles, and virtually all those rifles had work done after they were purchased. If a dozen hunters showed up for a big game hunt I would be comfortable betting no more than two rifles would shoot sub-half inch groups (and I wouldn't expect more than one to do it).

If half-inch groups were as common as shooters talk (and write) companies like Savage would guarantee 1/2" groups. They aren't guaranteed because they are not to be expected from stock sporter-weight big game rifles.

Interesting thread. I claim the prettiest 1/2" rifle



Those are 3 consecutive groups, throwing out the one called flier. I worked on the rifle and loads off and on for years to finally get it settled down to this level. It was a pretty special day when I finally got it to shoot this well.

a lot of folks will sometimes shoot a 3 round 1/2 inch group...

and when it doesn�t we blame ourselves (which in my case is a likely cause)� but a rifle which will do � inch groups 24/7 is a rare bird�

a 1/2inch shooter is more rare.

1/2 inch, 5 shot group rifles are best proven (and bragging) by consistent demonstration...........
.............outdoors of course, !

It's pretty much a driver thing even w/rifle capable. Most of the time, !

I'm more impressed with a rifle that will put 25 shots into 2.5 MOA rapid fire.

An old Swiss K31 that I gave $125 for will do it, although the point of impact moves down and left a bit when the barrel gets hot enough to raise a blister.

I have two rifles I consider to be very accurate. One is a Steyr SSG PII in 308 Win., the other is a Remington HBV in 223 Rem. With the right ammo, both will easily better .5" for 5 shots. I don't hunt with either one. My hunting rifles are plenty accurate for the task, but won't shoot with the two rifles I mentioned. Some guys seem to have lots of "one-holers." in the gun rack. I've yet to see them deliver.

I make a one holer everytime I shoot a bullet.

Swampy just said on another thread that Remmys will routinely shoot .5 moa out of the box with factory ammo....so what are we all doing messing around with other rifles and handloading...?

Ingwe

3 back to back 300 yard groups with my first 6x47 lapua. I think it would qualify as at least a .5 MOA rifle

Yup, me too... I can get a single hole by flinging a rock, but I don't call it accuracy. Remember Ernest T. Bass?

Once a rifle is pillar bedded and you use good brass (a must) it not that hard to do with practice......Even if the rifle is capable not every group will work but thats fine

this is a three shot preasure test I did with the 243AI Mod 7 (std rifle with a new barrel and bedded with 87gr Vmax and Lapua brass).....still not to preasure yet but nothing went over 1" with .5gr steps, I expect to get another tight group just under preasure (22.5mm squares)



But the same rifle with 95gr VLD's nothing is under 2" weight of pill to twist does make a difference

I found my 7mmSAUM was ok but not great with the 162Amax but it loves the 140VLD...It can shoot better than I can



LH group is a hotter load

This is 3 groups traces over to see what the overall groups was with three different loads .5gr apart, A good load to settle on as the POI is close enough to not have to get to fussy when loading



Some what slower than I wanted so I am still working on this one....but I will settle with the load as its still got enough punch


But when it comes down to it when you start to step out the range its more important to be able to read the wind and have accurate charts than have a .5 or less group....1" is fine....I just like the challenge of getting the best you can from any rifle.

The biggest killer of groups is inconsistant brass....Lapua or Norma are my choices if avaiable......Can be done with other brass but you get sick of weight sorting and measureing. I also keep all the brass in fired lots as if it has been fired uneven times uneven neck tension is an issue