Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Horses vs. mules

I'm sure this has probably come up before, but help me with the pluses and minuses. It's too late to think about them for this year, but after a long muzzleloader weekend and a lot of miles covered a buddy and were talking about them on the way home.
Outside of individual animal personality quirks, what's wrong with either, what's right with either?
And would you consider any other kind of packstock? I raised pack goats when I was younger, but I worry too much about having my animals eaten to mess with them anymore. Although they were nice, would follow you anywhere and were easy to handle. And a big whether(220-250) could carry about 70 pounds.

There is a saying that a horse will kill you buy accident and a mule will kill you on purpose.Pretty much rings true,and I'm a devout muleman.

Generally mules are healthier than horses, live longer, are smarter, will eat less, have better feet, more sure footed, will work harder than a horse,and can stand the heat better. If treated right they are more personalble than a horse and make a better companion. You can take them places that most horses will not go. They have a higher sense of self preservation which mnay think is stubborness.

However,a lot of people do not or cannot get along with mules because they don't understand them. I suppose the same thing could be said about horses, but you can bully a horse into doing soemnthing that may or may not be in yours or the horse's best interest. Not so with amule. You can't bully, force or coerce one into doing soemthing it mght think is harmful. Fight it and you will lose every time.

If a person can find an older mule that has done just about evrything, that mule will teach him/ her a lot and generally won't give too much trouble if treated right. Start with a younger one that need some desensitzing and most people get in a bind.

A person needs to be an experienced horseman before starting down the road witha mule. However, training and using mules is completely differnt than a horse. Think of using a horse as kindergarten and a mule as post graduate work after college 4yrs.

A good mule is 10 times better than a good horse,but a bad mule is 100 times worse than a bad horse. There are a lot more bad mules out there for sale than good ones.Good ones usually don't come up for sale very often.

That being said, there are good horses that wil do particular jobs better than a good mule and there are good mules that will do a particular job better than a good horse. In addition,each breed of either a horse or mule will be suited more to some particular job than another.
Example:I would not use a thorobred horse as a pack horse, nor would I use a draft horse as a saddle horse,but they do work on occasions

you dont say how much expieriance you have with large animals??
from the sound of it just to me it is too late to change. go with what you know and know how to handle [even with your misgivings]. the learning curve for large animals can be fraught with danger. i have known of a lot of serious injuries to people and stock in the backcountry and seen several dead horses laying along the trail for unknown reasons. care of them never ends [ and costs $$$] i know we spend more on vet bills than the average person but we spend thousands per yr. just an example. in camp they can be a pain to take care of. feed? or tie em to a tree and let them fatten up all year till next season. my journey to be a horseman has been going for 60 yrs and i decided many many years ago that i would take better care of my stock than just tie em up and go hunt. i dont need to hunt so bad as to ignore the critter that carried me in. i like to hunt just not at the animals expense or injury.
perhaps the devil you know is better than the devil you dont know.

If you AI the mule he can carry 162 grain boolits WAAAAY faster than a horse can.

mules are better for comic relief, they make much cooler noises.

My father had mules our KS farm. His had favorite team that he would work in an away fields, unhitch from the tools in the field and ride the mules with the harness home. One of those mules would would stop suddenly every few days and off the front he would go to the ground. It seemed to know when the time was right. I had an Elk hunting friend that said that a horse would ride right off of a mountain in low light. He swore that you couldn't push a mule off of a mountain. He used to pay for Elk trips by hauling mules from KS/MO to CO, using them to hunt, and then selling them to outfitters before coming home. Good luck.

Try goats fo packing

A good horse or mule is great, but they just don't work for everyone. They take a lot of off-season care and money to start with. If you only want pack animals for hunting, they're an expensive way to go. If you ride year round, that's another story.

So, for occasional meat packing - you might be better off with goats or llamas. They won't carry the loads a horse will, of course, and you can't ride them, but they do have advantages. Most experienced pack goats are dairy breeds. That doesn't make them the best, just the cheapest. Male dairy goats are throw-a-way so they're recruited for packers. A meat breed wether, like a boer or Spanish will be bigger with heavier muscles and will carry more weight. They're hard to come by, though, because most of them are eaten before they grow up.
Llamas are very easy to care for and easy to train. Like goats, they can be hauled in the back of a pickup or even a van so a stock trailer isn't needed. Good used pack saddles are hard to come by so be prepared to spend a couple hundred each if you can't find used or make your own. Same for goat saddles.

Goats will be eaten by about anything with teeth. Llamas will run coyotes off and in a few cases, guard llamas have also run off bears (but don't count on it). They're no match for a cougar or wolf, though, but horses have also been on the menu for those critters.
A big meat breed goat will haul as much weight as a big llama, around 80-90 lb max for long trips. Both will go places that only a fool will take a horse. The problem is that you have to hike there yourself. If you don't want to lead a llama into a hell hole, don't shoot an elk in there.

The weak point on llamas is the legs. You have to learn what's good or not. Many have weak pasterns that will give them fits as they get older. Good legs will give you a packer that will last 10-15 years. A good back line and shoulders are also required for maximum loads.

Not too many years ago, a young llama would set you back a thousand or more. These days, you can get a male weanling for around $100. He needs to be 4 years old, though, before you can really load him up. That's no different than goats, horses, or mules, though.

Llamas are very easy to work with, but there are some rules. You won't need to be shown twice that when you work on one's feet, you snub up his lead so he can't turn his head toward you. Also, when one is PO'd, they can make some of dangedest noises imaginable.

The first time I went elk hunting I went on a packing service drop camp and the outfitter put me on a mule to ride into the Flattops.The thing I most remember is that no matter how hard he was breathing or how nasty the trail was, if he saw a thistle off to the side he would stop and eat it!

For a pack string mules are the better animal (horse vs mules) no question. I'd rather lead 9 mules than 3 horses. Mostly they just fall in line and do their job. And for riding in the mtns hunting there isn't much wrong with them either. Cowboying is another story. In my mind horses are for riding and mules are for packing. But unless I'm working cows I'd rather ride a mule than pack a horse.

So has anyone had pack stock shot, or harmed by predators before?
Rock Chuck, you seem to know a thing or two about goat packing... any other concerns with goats? I mostly used Alpines and Oberhaslis when I was younger, but I had a big line of Alpines, and most of the does would weigh over 200 (not fat), with the wethers going 220-240 or so. I don't really like the idea of the meat breeds, like Boers, because of their coats and I've never had a cooperative, quiet Nubian.
I left the horns on the ones I raised for packing, but I especially worried about the Oberhaslis being mistaken for deer(same concerns with a Toggenburg). I was told the horns would help them cool off because of all the blood flow (same idea with the Nubians and Boers with big floppy ears).
I actually like the idea of goats (although, I'd have a hard time selling my hunting partners on the idea, but f them, if they're mine and they don't have anything, they'll learn to like them). What else would you be concerned about with small pack stock like goats? How do they handle severe cold? Did you ever have to blanket them? I was in California with mine, so that was never a concern.

I suppose if I was packing goats and got stranded by weather, I wouldn't feel so bad about eating my stock.

First think of 18" of snow and how a goa twould get through it.
Had a friend on this forum who used goats until a mtn lion made a buffet out of two of them.

ok
i dont have and never will have goats but it sounds like you would be comfortable with them if no one shot at them and nothing wanted to eat em. so ---put a bell on em and paint em orange, well at least and orange coat. i would worry more about a shooting than an eating. i worry some about a shooting with horses too and sometimes have a bell on my pony when i ride.

I haven't used goats myself, but I'm fairly familiar with them. The Jury is out on dehorning. I guess it's a personal preference thing. There are good arguments both ways. Unless they damage each other, I'd leave them on. However, never let them learn play with you. They'll bust you good when you least expect it.
I doubt that goats can take severe cold like llamas. Farmers in cold climates have to have good shelter for them in the winter because of it. I haven't heard of using blankets in the mountains, but it should work for late season hunting. It's one more thing to haul along, though.
They're probably the easiest to train of any of the pack animals available. If they're imprinted when young, you just have to get them used to a load. They'll pretty much stay with you after that. I've heard of them sort of taking over a camp if you let them. They'll move right in, even inside your tent. That's probably an extreme brought on by them being pets, not tools. I'm guessing your partners would object to sharing a tent with a goat.
I don't know of anyone personally who's lost goats to predators, but we have our share of coyotes around here. I'd hate to have to take along a guard dog or llama just to run them off. If they're a problem and if you're camping with your truck, I'd load them up at night to protect them.
Alpines are very popular with good size to them. Boers can get up to 300 sometimes and are real load haulers. I don't know what the coat issue is. I haven't heard of it.

I'll bet your partners will kid you to no end until they hike 3 miles out carrying only a rifle while the goats pack the meat. That makes the Heidi jokes disappear fast.

The last time I was in Montana, I asked the outfitter why he used mules instead of horses. He said the horses were cheaper, but the mules were more sure-footed and less skittish. As we were riding along a very narrow trail on the side of a mountain, I was glad he made the choice he made.

Fast Ed

I have used both for years and my family had a lot of saddle mules we used in the rough rocky rimrock country of the Big Bend of Texas, much like Arizona but more slick rock..The mule got around better in the slick rock because they were never shod and were tough footed out of Mexico..They were from Spanish Jacks and sorry mares so they had pretty poor dispositions but we sold them like hotcakes to the Colorado packers who loved those tough little devils..naturally we kids got the job of breaking and training all of them..

I like a real good mule, but a real good mule is the exception rather than the rule IMO..Also a Mule is harder to break and train, and when he is finished he is great to ride and hunt of of but you can't do much else on him as compared to a good horse..I have only seen a few mules that I could catch a fast steer off of or head a bunch of horses and only then got it barely done..For the rough country the mule is great as to getting around but so is a good horse..

Bottom line is I much prefer the horse and a good horse can do anything you ask of him, and he is more reliable and not prone to damage your hide as a lot of mules will do..:)

I am not anti mule, but I prefer a good horse every time.


As to goats, well, they are good to eat. thats about IMO...

My admittedly limited exposure to mules has led me to believe that they are not for me. They seem to be a lot like liver or lutefisk - they aren't for everyone. Give me a good horse and I'll go most anywhere a guy with mules will go with no worries. I'd worry more about finding one of either type that had the experience and personality for the two of us to work well together in whatever it was that I was going to use it for. Plenty of good ones of either type out there but you will have to look for a while to find one that fits you and your needs well or you'll regret your decision every day you have to feed it.

Folks need to go to some of these all mule rodeos to see mules being cowey. They can rope,head or heel, pen, cut with the best of them.

Heck,most competition in horse related arena events or such won't even allow mules to compete with horses as they usually walk away with all the trophies. Put them in a long distance endurance race and they win most of them.

There use to be a fellow down in the 4 corners area, Doyle Hill, who ran bunch of Walker mares and quarter horse mares, which he bred for mules. He had about 75 foals per year. The cowboys of AZ and NV sure liked them long legged walker mules. Much more so than the quarter horse mules. Doyle ran about 40 head of each and to buy one of those walker mules, you had to pay 1/2 of the price when the mare was bred and the other half when it was weaned. I bought several of them and sometimes I had to wait two years in line to get one.

Out in CA ,they use a lot of mules for cow work and seem to get along fine. Not saying mules will ever take over doing cow work, but there are some good ones out there doing it. A lot of folks let thier predjudice out weigh common sense about these things.

30-40 years ago people did breed sorry mares for mules and it has taken a lot of time and effort to convince folks that if you breed good mares to good jacks, you come out of it with darn good saddle mules with good dispositiosn and good confirmation.

My first mules were pretty much as Atkinson described, and you could buy them all day long for $150-$200. Now days to buy a good weanling, you best dig deep into your pockets.

Back in the 80's we worked hard to get mules back into competition at the Denver Stock Show. The first year out of a class of 27, my wife took 1st in side saddle competition and went on to win high point mule in the Americam Donkey and Mule Society for side saddel competition that year and then the next year took fist place,International Side Saddle mule.She has a room full of ribbons, trophies, and loving cups for Emglish and Western Pleaure, Trail, Driving, Halter and a Gymkhana events and such, all done with the same mule. Pretty hard to convince her that a mule can't do it all.

We never competed in cow classes as I don't consider the cow a companion animal and I don't play with them.

Some days catch the Bishop Mule days over Memorial Day week end in CA or Jake Clark's sale up in Powell WY if you want to see some good mules.

I realize there ain't no way anyone is going to convince a old cowboy to switch to a mule, but I have been riding and using these critters for 40 yrs now.I don't havee a horse on the place. I like to look at good horses and appreciate them as much as anybody, but my only use for them is to make mules.
In all my years I have never met one person who switched to riding a mule that has swicthed back to riding horses.Those short eared affairs are just too darn dumb acting for my liking.

I have hunted on horses and mules, off and on, for the last 40 years or so. At this point in my life, if mountains are involved, it's mules only for me. I have had to good fortune to have some really good rock-footed horses and have ridden them places that it would have been difficult to walk, but in hind sight, I should never have asked the horses to go there.

Among my friends are a bunch of old cowmen, most older than me, who have ridden horses in the rough country of southern Colorado, New Mexico and west Texas all their lives. They all have at least two or three gripping stories of horse wrecks and accidents in the mountains which could have ended up with them and their horses dead. We have friends who are not alive to tell these tales, because their wrecks and accidents didn't end the same way.

My friend Warner Glenn has hunted and guided hunters for lions and deer all of his life (he is still active in his 70s). He will not hunt off of a horse nor will he let his clients ride a horse. He works his cattle off his mules and ropes off of them. I learned how to really use mules working and hunting with him, and I will not go back to hunting from horses.

JMHO