Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Horses vs. mules

We try real hard to keep an eye out and get off the trail whenever horses are coming but sometimes visibility isn't good and we sneak up on each other. We've caused a few small scale rodeos but so far nobody has been thrown or otherwise injured. Any suggestions on helping us avoid spooking horses would be greatly appreciated.

Hey Vince, if you ever think about moving this mule to a different pasture, please let me know as I would be interested. By the way, I'm about half way through reading all those links you sent me...that's some serious information and it takes several times to read over so as to absorbe all the knowledge.

Thank you!!!

Robert

If you see each other with enough distance TALK to the horses long before you get up on them.

The biggest goblin out ther are back packers with huge packs that extend above the head.Then they get off the trail a few steps and won't say a word.Hores and mules generally freak out. Put a llamna behind them and you have utter chaos.As Wyowhisper said, talk a lot.

These hikers have no idea that a mule or horse can kick out side ways when they walk pass.

Bob. I sold one good mule to a fellow in Grand Junction two yrs ago. The rest stay here until I can't ride anymore. My pard has a big (16+ ) hand Tennessee Walker mule for sale that is pretty good. 11 yrs old, bred and raisded on the place,been in elk camp every year excpet the last two. My buddies knees gave out and the mule is too tall for him to get on anymore.He had to go out and bought a little 13&1/2 hd one. This mule packs camps,meat, and rides well, easy to shoe and trailer. Walks out pretty fast and has a easy sitting gait.

Those padded feet on a llama come in pretty handy sometimes. They can deliver a pretty good kick, too, but unless they rake you with a toenail, the foot pads cushion most of it. You'll get a good bruise, but nothing will likely break. They can't get too far out to the side, either.
They're like a horse in one way - when it comes, you won't know it until it's too late. That foot is FAST

Last year on an elk hunt in Colo.I alternated between riding a horse and my cousin's wife's mule "Rose".Both were great but after about a foot of snow the difference was dramatic as far as the sure-footed talents of the mule.The horse slipped,stumbled and even fell down (with me of course) while ole'Rose walked the same trails as easily as walking down a sidewalk.In fact,this year I've even inquired how "my" mule is doing and is she ready to hunt.Just my observation. Kix

Mustangs are the happy medium...

here's one of the mean ones...

For testing bullets...

Hardly.

You've probably tried going at them and training them like a domestic horse.

As they say, "good luck with that".

I am afraid this is like the 270 vs 3006, I have used both for years and for differant reasons. some times a mule was better for a job and vice versa. I got a pair of mules now, and one is very good at spotting game. If your a product of a push button world mules may not be the way to go.

I've never tried training a horse of any stripe or color. 'Wild' horses they aren't and the way the feds have to 'manage' them borders on comical.

Glad you like 'em, just make sure you adopt a few more!

This is thread is the most enjoyable I have ever found on the internet, thank you.

My first 20 yrs or so were spent on a cattle farm and we used Quarter Horses and Apps for work and recreation, but I have never had any dealings with mules.

A lot of the information here reminds me of the Will James book "Cowboys North and South". Different strokes for different folks.

You would know what I mean if I mentioned a 'traditional stock horse' ?

Since 1/4 horse have been bread for at least 5 different uses for years, mentioning the breed can be confusing to some. Appies have been diluted with 1/4 horse, so their not so basic anymore, you mentioned 'work' I know you know the difference !

But that 'traditional stock horse' type is hard to beat in the mountains!

Having packed professional on horses and mules, shoed horses and mules for over 20 years, I have meet less then 100 'good' mules in my lifetime. But have meet hundreds of good horses.

A good mountain horse will not be as tall as most stock horse breeders try for. And they will never have the top-end speed that most currant trends look for.

A good solid built , well muscled, round boned (cannons) rounded or wide oval barreled (rib-caged) straight conformation, good head-set and level-headed with a good work ethic horse, is hard to beat.

Traditional stock-horses were not as tall as we see them today, 15H would be on the tall side. If the first thing that catches your eye is how much muscle and well put together the horse is, is a very good one to spend more time looking over. Most horses used for mountain work today are pushing the tall/speed spectrum of useful DNA, you will get more work out of a horse breed differentially (traditionally).

We never see it any more, but well breed Cobb X's have done a lot of work as stock horses. Most everything anyone has ever rode or packed will fallow more of the Arib style blood-lines. Mountains and packing tend to favor more of a Barb style breeding. Some Mustangs fallow more of the Barb style. I have meet a few Mustangs I really liked.

President Useless S Grant was given 2 stud horses, one well bread Barb, and one well bread Arib stud, by the Sultan of Istanbul as a gift. Grant started a breed called the Ranger Horse with them, latter called the Colorado Ranger Horse, his idea was fantastic! Taking those studs and covering every mare they could find from Chief Joesph (real Appies), culling the less desirable offspring, much the same way the Appolisia's were refined, rendered a 'can-do' horse! Modern breeders ruined Grants idea, Ranger horses today look like modern Appies.

My idea, make this one a little shorter, round out and shorten the cannon bone, more inner-leg mussel, and a slightly wider stance in front, give him a job to tone the muscle on him, and some hoof under him, and you could drag your elk out!


Or just worm, shoe and put some weight on this one, I'm good!



In my opinion, mules will not out work a well breed horses for most people.

A hint, Chief Joseph and 800 of his men women and children, and their belongings, out ran 2000 of the US finest soldiers and scouts on horses and mules, for 3 months and 1700 miles of mountainous terrain!

K_Salonelk said "In my opinion, mules will not out work a well breed horses for most people."

Probably true,but that is not the mules fault, it's the handler or trainer.

However, it has been proven time amd time again that given a mule and a horse of the same size, a mule will out work that horse every time given the same degree of training.In fact a smaller mule will usually out work that bigger horse. Add excessive heat to the equation and the horse will quit, or even die far ahead of the mule. Look at all the long range endurance races and compare how many mules have won vs how many horses. Go to some puling events and compare a 2500 lb team of mules a to a 2500 lb team of horses. The mules out pull the horses every time in categories that compare the percenatge of thier weight to how much they pull. In fact, most pulls will not let mules compete directly with horses anymore.In just about any species of animal,the hybrid will out do the straight lineage.At the turn of the century and a little before,there were actually more mules being worked in harness than horses. During the western expansion, inS t Louis, mules would consistently bring twice to three times more in dollars than teams of horses and would be worth even more when they reached thier destination.

As I mentioned before,with horse or mules, there are certian breeds that do certain jobs better than others. The traditional stock horse as you mentioned has been bred for a long time to be cowey, have lots of stamina and have good legs and feet.

A lot of these good horses are still being bred on ranches that still use the horse as thier main tool of working cattle.
Unfortunately though, many more of the breeds have been so modified for the show ring that they would not stand up to the rigors for which they were originally intended. Sad to say,we are seeing the same thing now days with good saddle mules. Small feet,heavy frames and pencil thin legs.

Barrel racers, cutting horses, roping horses, etc. have all had thier lineage tailored specifically for the task they are meant to handle. But how many of those task specific horses can be driven, packed and ridden.

The heavy horses ( draft horse are a misnomer.You use heavy breed,cold bloods to do draft work)have been bred with excessivley long legs which puts them too high to give good pulling capabilities. The 1/4 horses have been bred with disporportionate body size for thier feet and legs, leading to unsoundness in earlier yrs. The morgans have been bred up in size from thier original lineage. Little 13 hd halflingers that commonly are 13 hds are now showing up at 14 &1/2 + hds. Appalosas now do not even have to show color to be registered. Pick just about any breed and you can find the same thing.

It has been my experince ( which includes a lot of years) that cowboys working cattle with horses are the hardest to to get riding a mule. Probably because the mule takes longer and requires more patiencet o train and most working ranches do not have time as a luxury. Tradition has a lot to do with it also. In addition, few younger cowboys have yet to develope the certain attitude required to work with a mule. A lot of them let thier predjudices over rule thier common sense.

I agree with RexM, this thread has been enjoyable and informative. Good work guys!

Having never earned a dollar that didn't come from a horse, cow or rodeo i've been around lots of horses. Broke them, ranched,roped,packed,cut,reined etc. Only really been around one mule dad owned when i got out of school so i've got lots of examples of one. That molly came out of mexico and i think was 3/4 jackass.
An old hollywood movie wrangler told me the reason guys rode mules is they were to poor to afford a horse and to proud to ride a cow.
All jesting aside i have seen some awfully nice mules around some of the movies and i have quite a little intrest in them. I guess i'm to tight to buy a good one and don't have the time to spend training one just to hunt on. I raise 2 or 3 colts every year that we use on the ranch and rope on and use on the occasional movie that shows up in these parts.
Great thread! Some very diverse opinions and styles presented here.

Fred

Bingo!

The reason in all those years he's only met about 100 good mules is straight up idiots for owners and not the Mules fault at'all. Same is said for those who think they know their way around a Mustang.



This badass will take it to, and last longer than any of your tiny feet, thin boned, over muscled "performance horse" day in and day out...

Straight up true blue Gubmint Mustang. I paid $25.

Here's a shot of my mother's brother, taken sometime around WWII. He spent the war in AK building the Al-can highway, then Europe and I don't know if this was before or after that.

He worked as a ranch hand most of his life before starting his own small herd of dairy cows.

We had a Skipper W bred mare from OK that was like that. Just barely 14 hands but stocky, strong legs, lots of foot, and fast. Some fool made her mouth into cast iron, but she knew more about stock than we did so really there was little need for "guidance" from us. She was doing more at 16 yrs than some of the big butt, little foot horses were at 5 or 7. Good horse.

Is there still the move within AQHA to go back to the traditional form? They were trying to go that way the last year or two we raised foals.

Funny what happened to the Apps, isnt it? I have used some that were fat 1/4 horses with spots, which are not all bad, but the best one we had around was a runt. If you were color blind and he had a sack on his head, you would have thought he was one of the real Arabs. Looked like a rat, was so short a fellow with long legs could clear him, but dang if he couldn't near climb trees. He loved to run the dogs, if you hunted off of him you were in for a ride because he would slide down the lime stone, jump into and swim the river, and dang near run the logs after coons or squirrels. He was a good horse to, but in a different way.

My big "American Horses" were a joy to use and if I had it to do over again I wouldn't want anything else (unless its that pretty sorrel long-ear someone posted a pic of :)) , but they couldn't keep up with that spotted rat in the woods.