Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Who is ruining Remington?

The same with most anything manufactured in the States now. With the dollar becoming worth less and less, the cost to recreate a 60's 70's model rifle would put them out of price range completely today. Won't be long before all Remington will be manufactured in China. I wouldn't doubt that most if not all parts are outsourced today.

Do you feel better now? Just take your $2500-$3000 down the road and you can get a decent shotgun.
As usual someone wants to spend a whole $250 dollars and then bitch if they don't get something comparable to a one off from a custom shop. You get what you pay for. What did you pay for the 870? What would you have paid for one in 1960? What would you have paid for a Ford automobile in 1960? What will you pay for one now?

Good points. I bought my 12-gauge Wingmaster 870 in 1979 for just under $300, and that included an extra barrel because they didn't offer screw-in chokes back then. According to at least one source, the Consumer Price Index has about tripled since then, so my $300 shotgun would cost $900 today. Leaving out the extra barrel and saying the 1979 shotgun cost $250 would still result in a $750 pumpgun. Ain't nobody paying that much these days--though I did buy a brand-new 28-gauge Wingmaster two years ago and it works just fine. In fact it is better in some ways than the 1979 version, with nicer wood with real (instead of impressed) checkering, and a nicer metal finish. It worked really slickly right out of the box.

I have only owned one Wingmaster, a 12 gauge my old man bought me way back in 1983.
Funny part was, it had a 28" ?? full-choke barrel with a 2 3/4" chamber.
Always wondered why it didn't come with a 3".

The 1964 WingMaster cost $68.00 (I have the receipt)

What does a new WingMaster run today $500. - $600. ?

I paid $260. for the express. What did I expect for that price?

I expected a plastic stock instead of wood, unpolished metal, and a sprayed on black finish instead of polished blue. I expected the same 870 action as a WingMaster with a less labor intensive finish and a cheap tupperware stock. That's what I paid for.

I also expected the damn thing to function properly. I expected the fired case to eject clear out of the action, not stick there every time the gun was cycled. I expect a new gun to function the way it was designed to do.

I expect I should not need to repair it right out of the box.

And for $2,500 to $3,000 I would expect a new over/under shotgun with a nice polished, blued finish and pretty walnut stock. Only a fool would give that kind of money for a field grade pump shotgun.

My 1964 WingMaster came with a 28 inch full choke barrel. In 1984 I purchased a new 26 inch IC barrel for $35. It turned that shotgun into a quail killing machine.

Both the 1100 and 870 came in "Magnum" versions for 3" shells usually with a 30" full choke VR barrel. I still have an 1100 Magnum I used during my teens years duck & goose hunting, Alot of friends used the 3" 870 Magnum with a 30" full vent rib barrel. Both models were well respected by veteran waterfowlers back in those days.

MtnHtr

I like the newer rifles especially the XCR's. The actions are very smooth on mine and accuracy is excellent,Great trigger too.

I like the look of the new CDL. I just can't bring myself to pay that much for one when I can put one of these together with a custom match grade barrel for the same amount of money. And I know it isn't going to need to be "repaired" when I finish with it.

Mule Deer,

I bought a new Wingmaster 20 gauge two years ago as well. It had a problem feeding out of the box. Took it back to the dealer and the problem was in a loose pin in the trigger assembly. Remington promptly sent a new trigger assemble, we swapped them out, and it's worked perfectly ever since. It is easily the equal of the 1964 12 gauge 870 I traded for it, with a far better wood finish and as you said, real checkering. I couldn't at the time justify the purchase price of the Wingmaster without trading. Have been kicking myself since.

The one think I didn't like was the plastic magazine follower. Worked ok, but I don't like plastic parts. I ordered an aluminum follower from Brownells. It does add a touch of class, I think. Buying a "high performance" magazine follower must qualify me as a shotgun loonie I think.

I will someday own another 12, this time a 3" for the occasional need to shoot steel. It too will be a Wingmaster, and you can be darn sure I won't trade the 20 off to get it!

AND DON'T FORGET FRIVOUSLOUS LAW SUITS...........THEY AIN'T HELPING THE GUN COMPANIES OR US A HELL OF A LOT..add to that the pride of workmanship the hired workers no longer have, and the beancounters that have invaded common since and the voice of the buyers...

But all is not lost, you can still buy a Mauser or a pre 64 Win. second hand and have the best of the best.

I for one am very interested in your CNC technology, as well as your chemical vapor deposition technology. Can you point us toward any technical articles on this technology that you have authored? Where did you get your engineering degree?

Those 20ga 870s were sweet! Back in high school, a friend had one. The bluing was a bit worn and the forearm had the vertical grooves instead of checkering but the action was slick as hell and it performed well especially on our dove shoots.

Another great pump shotgun were the Ithaca 37s, a friend had an older one in 20ga which he brought along on some mule deer truck hunts for an occasional grouse. Ithaca was recently started again and they are producing Mod 37s but I don't know the price: The Ithaca Gun Company

MtnHtr

The older 870's action we're smooth as warmed butter!! I grabbed a 870 express expecting the same action, holy cr?p. I almost cra??Ed my pants. How could remington let those leave the factory dors. Finish don't bother me, but that rough action. From what I could tell, Remingtons rifles/shotuns that are higher marked are machined better and fitted a little better, then the cheap lines. I just swapped my dad and gave him my 700 cdl sf for a sps and glock. Man even the bolt felt smoother on the cdl!! It could of been me, but both of us felt the same thing!!

If jimmyp or someone else wants to seek attention by hijacking the thread, I am not going to play along. I will send a PM to see if you are truly interested in a side topic. If you block my PM, like jimmyp, then I know you have no serious interest in the subject.

I remember a friend whose son had an 870 Express and it had jammed up while extracting a live shell. The extractor had somehow slipped off the rim and was bent inward and the pump was stuck solid. Later I read online the Express line was built of stamped parts with faulty tolerances. I'll never buy an Express, and the big green execs who promote that line should be in the unemployment line. The 870 Express would be a horrible shotgun to start a kid out with or for any duty for that matter.

MtnHtr

For an 870, I'd buy an old used one, put an aftermarket finish in matte for use in the field, and enjoy the older quality that made them famous. Rifle shooters yearning for a GOOD 700, or Rem Bolt of any model, look for the older the better.....or re-barrel. FWIW, you can get a custom action for little more than a trued action, put the stock/trigger/barrel of your choice, have a better gun with better resale. A Rem is always a Rem.

Anyone who buys anything, should at least receive a product that does what it's supposed to do. In this scenario, a guy buying a shotgun is not looking for sub moa. Just a gun that functions, goes Bang, Ejects, and loads another, WITHOUT issues.

Any issues, feeding, etc. is NOT acceptable.

Implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, an implied warranty of merchantability for products,,,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty

Anyone buying anything that does not work as it should and implied to work, should get a refund, or at a minimum have the company stand behind it and fix it.

It's interesting these threads keep coming up on Remington. You don't hear it about Browning, Beretta, Glock, Howa, Colt, Sako, etc. etc.

Could it just be that Remington DOES have QC issues?

I accept the fact that many Rem buyers/owners have ZERO issues.

I also recognize and accept the fact Many others DO have issues.

The fact is both groups are right, but the problem seems to be, that the first group refused to admit, or accept the latter groups experiences.

I have had good, bad, and in-between with Rem, and personally, my dollars don't want to risk them anymore. That's just me.

Why pay for something that's 50-50 going to give you a major headache in something that is a passion for all here? The BEST way for Rem to improve Quality and get back to where they were 25 years ago, is for everyone to boycott them, and make the pain of staying the same, greater than the pain of change.

THEN, and ONLY then, will Rem get back to their roots. I will not be holding my breath guys.

Owners of good, reliable, and accurate Rem guns, enjoy them, as they are great. Owners of not so good ones, send them back until made right, get a refund, or trade them off.

Future buyers of guns.....Caveat emptor

Ahhhh yes, I remember that now!
Thanx for the info., Sir.

Amen

Back in the 1960s, there were Fair Trade Laws, which permitted manufacturers to set retail prices and require dealers to offer certain levels of service.

Major retailers went to court to overturn these laws, so they could undersell individual gun stores and hardware stores. Sears and Montgomery Ward would sell name brand rifles, and their store brands, at cost, as loss leaders to build store traffic.

We all know how that went.