Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles WOW: The 308 Winchester REALLY IS better!

Not all of the Remmy's I measured had excessively long throats. A long throat does lower velocity but it doesn't necessarily mean that you can acheive higher velocities than shorter throated rifles without raising pressures..............................DJ

Please keep posting your findings.

REALLY!!! You mean the AMAX isn't good enough for Moose?

I think you mean..... That WAS a 120TSX.

Or do you think its cute coming off a like a fuggin retard with the way you "Command" the English Language.

I work with an actual Chiink that speaks English better than you

ALL Remmie 308 boltguns,wear long throats. ALL.

Of course that long throat,coupled with their generous bores,does in fact bleed speed...especially when moly is in the fray. This I mentioned concisely,none of which is a guess.

To make LIKE pressures,of a rifle seperate these shortcomings,one needs to ADD propellant to the equation to match like speeds.

You ain't very bright.................

Well, mine kisses 208s at 3.00", and 200ABs at 2.95".

I know I'm getting at least .150" running start into the lands with mag-length ammo. That does lower pressure. it's a common thing, and is a big reason why book loads are often 100-200 fps slower than they "should" be.

"Thinking",only gets you in trouble.

I've no doubt the ease in which I command the English language,do in fact send shivers down your spine. I'm rather adept in waxing eloquent,coining phraseology or in the hearty embrace of a lexicon that escapes your very modest faculties.

Deviate as you please and I'll happily use common sense at your expense...................

Wrong. Of course I come by this by having actually measured them not by just assuming I know it all like you.



You're assumption here that just because you are matching speeds by adding powder to the rifle with a longer chamber you are also matching pressures, this is not true.................................DJ

I love how you change the subject.... Or try too.

You ever smoke anything besides a Sitka with an AMAX???




You never did want to argue about the 53 critters I shot with Partitions either.


You have fun spewing your bullshit, I gotta go hunting in the morning.

You are full of [bleep] and talking out your azz.

I'm all ears on how you can get speed,less pressure.

This WILL be good...............

I've never shot a Moose with an A-Max,so couldn't quantify that firsthand accounting.

Extrapolating in kind,do I think a 22" Ti 7-08 with that 162 at 2700fps initial launch,would knock the wiggle out of a Moose? I'd state less reservation,that they'd tug lungs out of one easily,assuming you didn't ask it to break a shoulder enroute or similar.

Yes,I've seen shot Critters other than Bucks,with A-Max. Hardly invented it either.

I've killed over 53 Critters better than 200lbs apiece,with a 22lr...but I'd be slow to endorse same for utility.............

What I'm saying is that if you have a rifle with say a rough bore, fat chamber, and long throat you will have to add more powder to achieve a given velocity than you will compared to a rifle with a tight chamber, smooth bore and tight throat.

What a lot of people miss is that their rifle with a rough bore, fat chamber and long throat probably isn't going to be able to acheive the same velocities within pressure limits as the better barrel. Just because you load to the same velocity doesn't mean you are doing so at the same pressure.....................DJ

Drive moly and rock on.

That ain't a guess................

Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
Better than WHAT, BMT?


The 7-08 . . . . . . grin

BMT


haha best joke i herd all day!!!

.358 Win is the answer.

Uh... what was the question?

You can't make speed without pressure, but you can make pressure without speed. Just sayin'.

Careful ,Jeff... (And this is not meant confrontationally).....Light Magnum and High Energy Ammo manage it....and you can increase speed at permissible pressure with the correct combo of good barrel,proper throating,correct barrel dimension,the right bullet,etc.It all has to do with diminishing,within limits,the resistance the bullet encounters in passage down the bore.Yes, it takes pressure for sure to make a bullet go fast...

But certain small factors accumulated in the aggragate,can result in two rifles giving significantly different velocities at the same pressures, or close enough that you won't blow yourself up

Tellya what,as an experiment....slug the factory barrel on your Sendero 300 win mag;we can see what it measures for comparison later;do load workup,chronograph, etc.Then let the throat out so that you can seat the 180 even with the base of the neck,in proper relation to the lands(your Remington action is long enough).Do your load workup again,and see where you are.

Then...replace the factory barrel with a Krieger stainless,same length,but have them cut it with a 309 groove diameter(yes it will still shoot) ....................have it throated "long";do load work up and we will talk as you go through it.I guaranty you will find out some stuff you didn't know before about the 300 WM....

And before you ask the answer is "yes" I have done all of the above,several times over,in calibers from 270 to 375H&H;years ago.Results are surprising...remember that the entire barrel is the "combustion chamber"....this kinda stuff will convince you that there are such things as "slow" barrels and "fast" barrels.

Heads off, Bob, for all the work. Thank you also for so freely sharing your results and experience.

I am sure, though, you are the first to admit - it takes a bit of a looney to do all of the above to, and I

.

cmg: I am not as "looney" as I used to be.....all that work took time and expense,and a lot of expensive gunsmithing.I was very curious about such things at the time and wanted to find out what was BS and what was "true"within certain parameters and the means at my disposal.

But today,when I hit a "ceiling" with a rifle,and velocity is sub-par,I have a pretty fair handle on what is going on....

Sometimes...... There are actually more questions than answers,generally.................

And so "yes" I agree with PWC when he says that throat dimensions and configuration can make a difference in delivered velocity,rifle to rifle.And by using moly he is decreasing resistance to passage of the bullet down the bore....Bore dimension can matter,too,as can quality of bore finish.....and when you add everything up, in the aggragate,you can end up with rifles that can take heavier charges,safely,and deliver more velocity.At a minimum,such rifles can be less"touchy" as you approach a maximimum,safe load.BT/DT

The one question remains...what barrels,what materials,and internal bore dimensions,number of lands,groove diameters,etc.(?)

Now that is FUNNY!