200 grain partition over 2500 fps

Was perusing the Nosler Website and found this data.

Eye Popping!

http://www.nosler.com/index.php?p=15&b=30cal&s=307

I gotta get a 200 partition going 2500.

308 Winchester
200gr Partition� & AccuBond�
Primer: Federal 210M
Ballistic Coefficient: PT (.481) AB (.588)
Sectional Density: .301
* Most Accurate Load Tested

Powder: IMR 3031
Charge Weight Muzzle Velocity (fps) Load Density
(in grains)
38.0* 2290 fps 82%
36.0 2180 fps 78%
34.0 2070 fps 74%

Powder: W760
Charge Weight Muzzle Velocity (fps) Load Density
(in grains)
48.0 2571 fps 104%
46.0 2495 fps 100%
44.0* 2414 fps 95%

Powder: IMR4350
Charge Weight Muzzle Velocity (fps) Load Density
(in grains)
48.0 2460 fps 104%
46.0 2360 fps 100%
44.0* 2260 fps 95%

BMT

30 inch bbl?

.........Nupe! Probably with 24s.

Hodgdon uses 24" barrel data. Same with Lyman as well. I also believe that Nosler uses 24" barrel data. There are many 308 loadings using the 200 gr bullets with velocity listings in the 2400s along with one or two in the low 2500 fps range.

Depending on the bore, individual rifle and powder choice, the 308 is very capable of 2500 fps with 200 gr bullets out of a 24" barrel.

In my experience, Nosler's MV data tends to run much higher than what you get from a hunting rifle.

RH

.......Then Hodgdon and Lyman must be running higher too!! Plenty of 24" 200 gr loadings in the 2400s with one ot two in the low 2500s.

Also been thing about some of these.

http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_52&products_id=206

Damn, only 2500 fps? That's too slow and not even worth bringing up...

I had a 26" 308 HB that'd run 190SMK's at 2625 with H-4895.

Better than WHAT, BMT?

shoot that 200 with your 1-12 twisted barrels for best accuracy.

The 7-08 . . . . . .

BMT

Yipes!

Well, a convincing case can be made (ahem) that they are essentially equals, but I have yet to see a convincing case that one is better'n the other.

Try running this. These are both the top speeds from the Nosler book.

.30- cal, 200-gn Partition, 2571 fps

7mm, 175-gn Partition, 2612 fps

I can post the charts if you want...

Pretty similar, slight edge to the 7-08 in most categories. You could make the .308 look better with the 200-gn Accubond, but now we are cheating, using dis-similar bullets.

Seen what Montana Marine is doing with RL17 208Amax in a short 308?

Don't go there, T'were a joke.

BMT

Yes, I have a Custom Tube on my 308.

I am awaiting Shooter's Pro Shop to list some 200 grainers (factory seconds) then I will give it a try.

BMT

I ran some loads with 200s in the 308 over RL17 recently.

Summary:

20.5" factory Rem varmint bbl (I had it cut from 26").
Mag length OAL 2.81"

200gr SGK, 2700 fps

200gr AB, moly'd, 2620 fps




Details and pics here:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3418735/1/308_RL17_200_gr_bullet

Shane;

Very much looking forward to your 208, RL-17, and '06 findings.

Daniel over in Australia has been hard at the RL17/30-06 thing (with pressure testing) and has put up some preliminary 200 gr. results:

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/8561013611?r=8561013611#8561013611

And 180 gr results:

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/5761051511?r=5761051511#5761051511

Wow, 2700 fps from a 20.5" barreled 308. The max load over at the Hodgdon site gets 2514 fps.

I bet Shane will post his load... grin...

This R17 is beginning to look and behave an awful lot like the old H205 in the 30/06,and that could be a good thing.I suspect it is faster by a good deal than MRP......(?)

Want data on the 165; I suspect it'll burn 'em

Your post before this one would have been a great time to stop digging that hole...

Not much sucks worse than an NPT....................

Really???

Now this schitt I gotta hear ('specially from a [bleep] that thinks the AMAX is a killer BG bullet)

I gotta have a look at that RL17.

NPT's zook easy,have poor BC's and are the model of inconsistency. None of which horns me up.

The A-Max trumps the NBT in terminal affects(but what don't),while smoking it hard in aerodynamic form,which is a win/win for them who are inclined.

Wasn't long ago you were flapping your yap about logs and now you wanna try boolits,with ME?!!?

That is hilarious................

Yea, all he had to do to get these velocity figures was to exceed the manufactures listed maxium load for a 165gr bullet by 2 grains! Alliant lists 50grs as their max load for 165gr bullet in the 308. MM got these velocities with 52grs! of RL-17.

Sorry but I don't think you can get there without loading to higher than normal pressures......................DJ

Read more,yap less.

"Moly" was plainly mentioned and extrapolates perfectly. As do the rather genorous Remmie SAAMI chamber/throats.............

I pretty much get your point dj. You've been following me around the cyber-playground telling mer this for a few days now.

Why not spring for a lb of '17 and actually shoot it and bring some results back to share.

Hell, I don't know precisely how much pressure I'm generating. My findings are remarkably in line with others who have actually burn't some of this stuff though.

Two grains over, with a loosey-goosey Remington chamber/throat, moly, and roomy brass, is not a shocker to me.

PWC, Surely you aren't so stupid as to think that moly allows you to use bullets 35 grains heavier and use 2 more grains of powder and still stay at the same pressure.

And maybe you should read more and type less the Sierra Game Kings were NOT Moly'd...............DJ

I dunno...

Yesterday I smoked critter #53 with an NPT (I've been gunning them for 15 years now) I can't EVEN see how you think they're inconsistant. If impact happens at 2000 FPS or higher, [bleep] dies. Easy as that.

BC ain't everythign...

And WTF is Zook???

I've shot RL-17 in two different calibers so far. My Velocities tracked near exactly with the factory recommend loads....................DJ

Additionally, RL17 is not what you would call a fast powder by any means, in a 308 case. There just isn't a lot of volume there, relative to bore diameter.

It's very obvious that you do not know and don't think that weren't the crux................

That's fairly thin information.

Chambering, bullet, velocity, bbl length, charge weight, might be informative.

Oh, and the pressure you generated, since that's a big thing with you. And how you calc'd it.

SGK's push easily. Always have,likely always will.

Will moly slow pressure by a grain or more,in a 308 hull? Yes and every time. Will the generous Remmie chamber/throat/bore,bleed pressure in like fashion? Yes and every time.

Will those facets in conjunction,reliably bleed pressure? Yes and every time.

I find it curious,that you wish to reiterate your cluelessness,but such things seem to be in vogue as of late............

Alliant says that it has a "similar burn speed to IMR-4350 but with more speed". So it is slower than most powders you normally use in the 308 but of course it's probably right at the burning speed you'd want for the heavier bullets.

In the Nosler Reloading Guide #6 they list 50.0grs of IMR-4350 as the max load with 180gr bullets. - and at 114% loading density......................DJ

Ahhhhhhhh...she opted to "delete".

Rather good call..............

Or not. It certainly hasn't always been the case for me but then I've only reloaded for 14 different 308 Winchester rifles....................DJ

dj,

This 308 barrel of mine has a few thousand moly'd bullets down it with sparse cleaning.

At this point, sending a few nekkid bullets (the SGKs you referenced) down it is not going to make much difference.

I'm ALL ears,in those findings where moly kept pressures equal at like propellant charge weight and via like components/COAL. Hell,while you're at it,dream something up about how it went faster.

Then extrapolate that how in your "vast" findings,Remmie 308 boltguns typically run faster than Ruger,Winny,Sako,Howa,Kimber and other boltguns of like barrel length and especially stuff wearing Custom tubes and throated in accordance to their mag confines.

Feel free to rub my nose in it....................

I don't think that there is really such a thing as "calculating" pressure. I also don't beleive there is such a thing as free lunch. But If I use the same components in the same length barrel and get the same velocity as is listed in the factory pressure tested data, I think I'm probably within safe pressures. I don't like exceeding the powder charges listed by the manufacturers and manuals............................DJ

With RL17 you can't just plug it in to the burn rate chart and carry on as usual.

There's a fundamental difference in the technology applied to the retardant. It's impregnated through the kernels, not just layered on top.

This changes the pressure curve in ways that I am not smart enough to explain in technical terms, but it essentially slows the rise of pressure, and extends the peak pressure. Basically you getting a longer "push", on a bullet that has already reduced more inertia.

And do you think that Quickload developed pressure "calculations" keep this in mind?......................DJ

Shane, you seem to push stuff a bit hard, moly or no. Matters not, as it's your rifle and you have only yourself to please. But I wouldn't get too defensive about it... you're likely on somewhat thin ice with some of your loads, least from a SAAMI perspective...

You probably wear the same size boot by every maker,because you are giddy upon hypothesized guesses.

Not all boots run in like sizing,nor do chambers/bores and fixating an arbitrary number derived in a specimen seperate your's,is gonna cost you performance.

None of this [bleep] is hard and it simply amazes me how folks can go to lengths to miss the most simplistic matters,that are glaring by any account.

Wow...................

[bleep].... WOULD YOU SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!

What I took from that is "I'm a [bleep] retarded washed out drunk-ass ex logger that has nothing better to do than stroke my cock and spew my bullshit on UBB forums... I smoked a dozen critters with AMAXs so I'm an expert!"

One fuggin dink moose and a few Sitkas is FAR from big enough sample to tell me that the AMAX is FAR superior on ALL critters in ALL situations.

But please preach on, oh great Gnome of the North...

Thanks, I get it. Stay in your comfort zone then. No harm in that.



I grasp internal ballistics enough that I'm comfortable veturing beyond book data. Using the chrono in conjunction with QL gives me some references to work with.

PWC, You pretty much quit making sense on this thread when you commented that Nosler Partitions - probably the greatest all-around hunting bullet ever made........................DJ

No.

Douche Adair,

Pop some Midols,rub the soreness outta your tits and simply read what I say. Do not infer or otherwise use your unbridled imagination,to deviate the crux of my content. As per always,feel free to copy/paste anything beyond your meager comprehension and I'll take the time to explain it in little words that you can understand.

Your nonsensical ramblings are rather hilarious and I quote: "the AMAX is FAR superior on ALL critters in ALL situations.".

Only you,could conjure something like that up................

dj,

I've zero doubt that you impress far easier than I. I could not begin to put the NPT near the top of any projectile list,that dealt with killing critters reliably.

They are trumped easily.

Don't forget to muse 308's some more,that [bleep] was great!..............

Whatever dumbass...

You even kill 53 BG animals in your life??? Let alone with one bullet??

And no, I don't have pictures of them all... Many were does, and Antelope, and even more than one Cow Elk.

Then there's my Great Uncle Lee Bridges... He'd stacked up quite an impressive collection of 180" + Muleys with a 270 and NPTs. I think he had to shoot one of them TWICE

Or my grampa (who was a logger) that shot a 5x5 Bull Elk every year of his life with a 30-06 and 180 NPTs since they came in a yellow box and were made on screw machines....

I'd have to dig through more Chrono data than I'm in the mood for to get you exact figures but my Remmy LTR is slower than the other couple 308's I have with the same barrel length. Probably because it has the 2nd longest throat of the 14 308's I measured the throats on, (the longest was another Remmington).......................DJ

Now that schitt IS funny...

We've already establiched that you're speaking of a limited sample, and are a reterded dumbphuck...

Only you could find satisfaction,in relating the account of others as a bargaining chip on your gross cluelessness.

NPT's were higher on the list in their day,but them days is gone.

Keep the ball rolling,as only you can................

Brad,

All of my 30-06 and 308 loads are running around 60-62K pressure per QL pressure/velocity correlations. not excess at all, just maximizing case volumes with slowish powders.

Running this RL17 is really the only venture where I'm finding velocity beyond the normal expectations, without seeing any pressure signs. It would seem an anomoly to me if others were not getting the same results. The BR community was the first place I read about the unique properties and results based on actually shooting the stuff.

So, I'm really not pioneering anything. I saw something that looked good and gave it a whirl. My results are posted for whoever might find them interesting or useful.

Getting some blowback on this forum was expected.

Nobody else but me smoked the 53 critters that I have with the NPT... I did it all by myself, that's MY accomplishment..


My POINT was...

You're the only retard I've ever met that thought the AMAX was a BG bullet..




No really... I don't hear anyone else suggesting its use on dink Moose...

Just Sayin.

I stated simply and because it is a fact:

"Will moly slow pressure by a grain or more,in a 308 hull? Yes and every time. Will the generous Remmie chamber/throat/bore,bleed pressure in like fashion? Yes and every time."

No [bleep] Remmie 308's are long throated,which in turn do bleed pressure...which in turn will skew the correct size of your boot despite that number upsetting your frailties. I do not guess.

Toldjaso................

Douche Adair,

Despite your drooling on the video and getting horned up on the Moose pics,you still miss the most glaring obvious...that were a 120TSX.

Keep your impressive record of striking out going and really swing for the fence next time.

Laffin'..............

Not all of the Remmy's I measured had excessively long throats. A long throat does lower velocity but it doesn't necessarily mean that you can acheive higher velocities than shorter throated rifles without raising pressures..............................DJ

Please keep posting your findings.

REALLY!!! You mean the AMAX isn't good enough for Moose?

I think you mean..... That WAS a 120TSX.

Or do you think its cute coming off a like a fuggin retard with the way you "Command" the English Language.

I work with an actual Chiink that speaks English better than you

ALL Remmie 308 boltguns,wear long throats. ALL.

Of course that long throat,coupled with their generous bores,does in fact bleed speed...especially when moly is in the fray. This I mentioned concisely,none of which is a guess.

To make LIKE pressures,of a rifle seperate these shortcomings,one needs to ADD propellant to the equation to match like speeds.

You ain't very bright.................

Well, mine kisses 208s at 3.00", and 200ABs at 2.95".

I know I'm getting at least .150" running start into the lands with mag-length ammo. That does lower pressure. it's a common thing, and is a big reason why book loads are often 100-200 fps slower than they "should" be.

"Thinking",only gets you in trouble.

I've no doubt the ease in which I command the English language,do in fact send shivers down your spine. I'm rather adept in waxing eloquent,coining phraseology or in the hearty embrace of a lexicon that escapes your very modest faculties.

Deviate as you please and I'll happily use common sense at your expense...................

Wrong. Of course I come by this by having actually measured them not by just assuming I know it all like you.



You're assumption here that just because you are matching speeds by adding powder to the rifle with a longer chamber you are also matching pressures, this is not true.................................DJ

I love how you change the subject.... Or try too.

You ever smoke anything besides a Sitka with an AMAX???




You never did want to argue about the 53 critters I shot with Partitions either.


You have fun spewing your bullshit, I gotta go hunting in the morning.

You are full of [bleep] and talking out your azz.

I'm all ears on how you can get speed,less pressure.

This WILL be good...............

I've never shot a Moose with an A-Max,so couldn't quantify that firsthand accounting.

Extrapolating in kind,do I think a 22" Ti 7-08 with that 162 at 2700fps initial launch,would knock the wiggle out of a Moose? I'd state less reservation,that they'd tug lungs out of one easily,assuming you didn't ask it to break a shoulder enroute or similar.

Yes,I've seen shot Critters other than Bucks,with A-Max. Hardly invented it either.

I've killed over 53 Critters better than 200lbs apiece,with a 22lr...but I'd be slow to endorse same for utility.............

What I'm saying is that if you have a rifle with say a rough bore, fat chamber, and long throat you will have to add more powder to achieve a given velocity than you will compared to a rifle with a tight chamber, smooth bore and tight throat.

What a lot of people miss is that their rifle with a rough bore, fat chamber and long throat probably isn't going to be able to acheive the same velocities within pressure limits as the better barrel. Just because you load to the same velocity doesn't mean you are doing so at the same pressure.....................DJ

Drive moly and rock on.

That ain't a guess................

Originally Posted By: Jeff_O
Better than WHAT, BMT?


The 7-08 . . . . . . grin

BMT


haha best joke i herd all day!!!

.358 Win is the answer.

Uh... what was the question?

You can't make speed without pressure, but you can make pressure without speed. Just sayin'.

Careful ,Jeff... (And this is not meant confrontationally).....Light Magnum and High Energy Ammo manage it....and you can increase speed at permissible pressure with the correct combo of good barrel,proper throating,correct barrel dimension,the right bullet,etc.It all has to do with diminishing,within limits,the resistance the bullet encounters in passage down the bore.Yes, it takes pressure for sure to make a bullet go fast...

But certain small factors accumulated in the aggragate,can result in two rifles giving significantly different velocities at the same pressures, or close enough that you won't blow yourself up

Tellya what,as an experiment....slug the factory barrel on your Sendero 300 win mag;we can see what it measures for comparison later;do load workup,chronograph, etc.Then let the throat out so that you can seat the 180 even with the base of the neck,in proper relation to the lands(your Remington action is long enough).Do your load workup again,and see where you are.

Then...replace the factory barrel with a Krieger stainless,same length,but have them cut it with a 309 groove diameter(yes it will still shoot) ....................have it throated "long";do load work up and we will talk as you go through it.I guaranty you will find out some stuff you didn't know before about the 300 WM....

And before you ask the answer is "yes" I have done all of the above,several times over,in calibers from 270 to 375H&H;years ago.Results are surprising...remember that the entire barrel is the "combustion chamber"....this kinda stuff will convince you that there are such things as "slow" barrels and "fast" barrels.

Heads off, Bob, for all the work. Thank you also for so freely sharing your results and experience.

I am sure, though, you are the first to admit - it takes a bit of a looney to do all of the above to, and I

.

cmg: I am not as "looney" as I used to be.....all that work took time and expense,and a lot of expensive gunsmithing.I was very curious about such things at the time and wanted to find out what was BS and what was "true"within certain parameters and the means at my disposal.

But today,when I hit a "ceiling" with a rifle,and velocity is sub-par,I have a pretty fair handle on what is going on....

Sometimes...... There are actually more questions than answers,generally.................

And so "yes" I agree with PWC when he says that throat dimensions and configuration can make a difference in delivered velocity,rifle to rifle.And by using moly he is decreasing resistance to passage of the bullet down the bore....Bore dimension can matter,too,as can quality of bore finish.....and when you add everything up, in the aggragate,you can end up with rifles that can take heavier charges,safely,and deliver more velocity.At a minimum,such rifles can be less"touchy" as you approach a maximimum,safe load.BT/DT

The one question remains...what barrels,what materials,and internal bore dimensions,number of lands,groove diameters,etc.(?)

Now that is FUNNY!

Here is data on a 168 from Alliant . They show no data for the 165s.

30-06 Springfield * Speer 168 gr BTHP * Reloder 17 * Fed 210 CaseMinimum OAL
(inches)Bbl LengthPrimerPowderCharge Weight
(grains)
Velocity (fps)
Winchester 3.295 22 Fed 210 Reloder 17 56 2,850

This velocity of 2850 is not special on its own. Nosler #6 shows over 3000 fps with RL22 in a 24" bbl.

Savage: Yes, thanks. I have seen the Nosler data...that load of R22 gave under 2800 in a pre 64 FW....bout that time, I figured R19 would be better....it was

My old tired Ruger runs 180 Speers or NPTs at 2820 over a 58K PSI pressure tested dose of H4350, and no you won't find that data in a manual... (and I forget which Handloader that was in)

That was in a stock 22"er that has seen Tubbs Final Finish, BTW

Wow, so this is how you say "You're right, the NPT is a better all'rounder than an AMAX"

BTW, I'd not hesitate to bust an Elk (or Moose) right through the shoulders with a 165 Partition leaving my 308 Montana at 2750 inside 200 yards. If you can't get inside 200 yards of an animal, you can't hunt... You might be able to shoot... But you can't hunt

Hi Bob,

Agreed. I was attempting to state a succinct trueism. Really, if you think about it, a LOT of reloading pressure confusion is answered by that one little truism... If you think about it.

I have slow, loose, factory barrels... I have fast, tight, short-throated custom tubes... I know what you mean; you are "right". Still and all, when meditating on pressure and bullet speed, remember that it takes pressure to move a bullet, but bullet movement is not necessary for there to be pressure... I'm tellin' ya, it's all in there.

For instance, apply it to the standard noob's question as to whether equal velocity means equal pressure...

I'm brilliant, I tell ya... BRILLIANT!

Except payin' $1.20 for a TTSX, when I get NPT's for 32 cents each (Shooters Pro Shop).

Practice gets spendy with them TTSXs.

BMT

Now Larry considering a 200 lb blacktail is about as common as a 300 lb mulie (which is to say damn rare)just what "critters" are you speaking about?

And no I don't shoot a 308 WIN.
If I want a 200 grain NP to go 2700 I load them in my 300 RUM and shoot through a phone book first.

I'll wager those critters went WAY over 200 lbs apiece.

"The 308 Winchester REALLY IS better!"

Duh...

Only if they swallowed a manhole cover.

Cattle and hogs eat manhole covers?

Cattle....probably not. Hogs perhaps. Thought we were talking blacktails????? I missed that one

I just assumed Larry had whacked some butcher critters between the eyes with a 22lr.

Assuming Carl thought the same thing.

I see now....it was KC that made the leap. I haven't seen any evidence of PWC spewing BS so I'm sure he'll clarify.

.

Right. Im sure he ran a huge cattle ranch, and probably hogs too on the side. Would that be when he was in Coos Bay or AK.
You guys crack me up...

No barnyard reference here in the full post...
Talking about hunting from what I can gather, but I'm sure you Gents can read between the lines better than I.
The 53# came from Dan's account of having HUNTED and killed that many big game animals BTW.

[bleep] if I know, maybe he worked for a butcher in high school.
Really not a big deal.

Damn it Sam... I can't [bleep] argue with that!

But you can bet Larry will explain it 'eloquently'......(grin)

Counting on it. <GRIN>

Dan,what's a Tubb final finish? Yes that's a warm load for an 06-180.

Bob,

It's a fire lapping system utilizing abrasive coated bullets.

Final Finish

I used it back when I was brand new to reloading, but I didn't really wring the guns out properly before hand to know for sure how they shot pre-treatment. The two 700's I tried it on, a 30-06 and a 22-250, both hold 1/2 MOA with loads they like, so I doubt if it hurt much.

Carl

10-4 Sam

FWIW:

Zinging the 130 TSX at 3220 is pretty wicked too . . . .

From barnes:

Bullet Weight: 130 gr
Case Trim Length: 2.005"
S.D. 0.196
Bullet Style: TSX BT
Primer: Federal 210
B.C. 0.340
COAL: 2.810"
Barrel Length: 24"
Case: Winchester Twist Rate: 1:12"



308 Winchester
Powder Charge Velocity Charge Velocity Load
(grains) (fps) (grains) (fps) Density (%)
AA 2460 45.0 2957 51.0 3221 95
Varget 47.5 2946 52.0 3159 106

Shane, just curious if you have tried 17 with 220s yet?

Ted

Thanks for that info. I tried RL17 with 180s in the 308 and it proved to be too slow in my rifles. I thought it might do well with 200+ grain bullets. Any experience with the 208 A-Max as a hunting bullet?

Thanks

or not...

No I haven't.

I have some 220 Hornady RN, and 220 Matchkings on hand, so I might give it a whirl eventually. I would imagine 2500-ish fps is possible.

No, but at 308Win velocities I suspect it would work fine.

308Win - great deer cart.

No problemo. Just load 'em in a 30-06!

Shane is your .308 on a short or long action?

I have a M700 short action in .308 and I would think anything over a 168 grains might have trouble feeding from the mag. Of course, I could load one at a time.

If you seat them all to 2.8" how will it know how much they weigh?

derby,

My 308 is a M700 short action. The 200s seated to mag length still make good speeds with RL17. 2600+, via 20.5" bbl.

WOW! That's impressive. I have a 26" barrel. I'm still trying to decide .260 Remington or stay with the .308.

I did some load work with the 200AB, and 200SGK. Both with RL17 at magazine length in the Rem 700.

Details here:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/3418735/1/308_RL17_200_gr_bullet

Thanks. Put it in my ammo favorites.

..............

............

A .308" 200NPT @ 2500fps is A.K.A..."tracer".

But perhaps,that would appeal to some?!!?...........

Yes it is better than a 30-30 or a 300 Savage. Or as was once said in a debate, "Sir I knew a 30-06 and it is no 30-06."

I figured little larry was a lying sack of $hit.

K-she,

Comprehension woes again/still? Funny how time won't heal some wounds and how stupidity is the gift that keeps on giving.

You still whine nicely.

Congratulations?!!?...............

I knew little larry was full of $hit...

What do they list a 180 grain accubond at? That would be more interesting to me seeing it doesn't eat up as much case capacity.

K-She,

Beings you obviously haven't the faculties to think for yourself,please copy/paste any/all assertions you've Dreamed up and I'll happily rub your nose in same.

Won't take much doing on my part,but humor never ain't not funny............

smurfette,

Way to dodge the fact that your a lying sack of $hit.

K-She,

You are at the mercy of your brainpower and that is the most slippery of slopes.

Good call to refrain.............

smurfette,

I knew you were full of $hit, but your pathetic retreat from your statement will probably break Calvin's heart...

Good call to avoid the subject BTW.

I said simply(and repeat) copy/paste anything I've ever stated,that is too tough for you to understand and I'll happily rub your nose in your own supidity.

It will be both easy and fun..............(for me)

Himmelr,

At least in the middle of the road 150-165gr loadings I have easily equaled Nosler data for their bullet/powder combinations. Just my experience, with my gun, Mauser 98 action, 22" tube, no bore coatings or linings.

Fyshbum

Fling a Scenar and live a little...........

You do a good crawfish smurfette.

You was fairly "sure" of yourself for a bit and now know better than to flap your gums.

Tough to top that humor!..............

Hey smurfette, how about this for starters?

Never lived on a farm and Butchered Fall Beef,have you?

Now I imagine you'll "cite" how,all Butchers kill Beef with a 460Wby?!!?

Laffin'................

I lived on a farm once.


An open sights Marlin 30-30 has it all over the 22lr.

No contest....(grin)

Blasphemy +P..............(grin)

To ImitatedOften,



These kind of insults hurt our forum and the shooting sports. Of course some are entertained by it but I am not.

I don't like to be insulted either. It just hurts our gun sports.

What I am saying that the person who insults like this is anti gun, anti hunting by his words.

Please stop.

Thank you.

Smurfette,

I think it was Sam who was saying you killed those animals on a ranch.

It was I who said your a lying sack of $hit/punk bitch who is talking out your ass...

Your last post simply proves my point.

Go [bleep] yourself,

KCB

So if someone blows smoke up your azz,you shoot better?

You crack me up!..................

You whine better than most and are easily amongst the most stupid to boot.

Congratulations?.............

Either way open sights are the key factor.

When I was a kid our hired man shot a hog in the snout with a 22-250. Pig went running off squeeling like hell and the dude had to pop him in the chest,think he shot like 3 or 4 times, I'll never forget that chit!

Another time a Native came out to butcher an old burger cow, did the same damn thing, I grabbed my 270 out of the truck and finished her off.

Scopes and 10 yards don't mix....(grin)

Very often a Winchester 74 in LR,wearing a K4. Or a High Standard HD Military................

The guys here might have just been bad shots.

I've seen alotta [bleep] take off...none of which mechanically was the fault of the arm or it's ammo..............(grin)

Imagine that...(grin)

smurfette,

No worries, if I got caught in a lie like you have I'd be dodging the question at hand too.


To you know who- I recommend you take some calcium supplements. it does wonders for a mans backbone...

Funny thread! Still don't know how I got dragged into it.. Must be because KC sent me the most crybaby PM awhile ago after OI made him look like a jackass. Sorry dude, but you can't cry on my shoulder!

K-She ain't much on grey matter,nor experience and the combo simply overloads her modest faculties and then she shorts out.

Common sense is something she's incapable of attaining and she can only see things through her crossed eyes...which admittedly do put quite a humorous spin upon the most simplistic of matters.

I mean look at her avatar!.............

Why dont you post it you lying sack.

I did call you the spineless [bleep] that you are, but thats it.

And your post here is why you got dragged into it. Your so predictable its not even funny anymore! Wipe your chin when larrys done with you...

Rolled some footage for The Boys the other night and I said: " [bleep] shoot it again,[bleep] shoot it again" a total of 7 times in less than 3 seconds...in regards to a Bear that though dead,were still standing.

I'm not much into playing around.

Should upload it for K-She,if only because she's never seen anything of it's magnitude................(grin)

Say what you want, but your still a liar. At least calvins on your side. Or in front of you depending on your mood...

K-She how about a big picture of that 3pt and your crossed eyes?

PLEASE?!!?................

Where's your imagination taking you now? Noone can make more fun of you,than you can and don't think that ain't "special"..............

I can confirm that 10/22s do a good job on steers. My aim is improved by a little grain in a coffee can.

Not so good on bulls . . . . . . . .

Local guy that recycles all of the 4H critters into freezer stock uses a Browning Lever in 22 mag.

BMT

Sorry, but bears shot out of sleds dont impress me. How about some of your mulie and pronghorn trophies?

Never knowed anyone who handled lotsa Beef,that didn't use a rimfire..................

No crossed eyes here larry. If you dont believe me ask your wife

My bad...I forgot a Rat 3pt rates your avatar............

Right flattering,that my Realities fuel your Dreams............

22 mag was our preferred weapon as well...A guy learned fast that between the eyes was a bit low!

OK! If this isn't crying, I don't know what is! Please don't send me anymore PM's or talk gay to me anymore.. I get uncomfortable when men cry.

Unsolicited PM from KC, because I laughed when he made an ass out of himself on another board: Can't you just see KC sputtering with tears rolling down?!

I remain a sucker for a broadside,as opposed to a frontal...no matter the critter,boolit or chambering............

Last week I snuck two yearling steers down into the winter horse pasture. One of 'em has froze off ears and a bum foot, an early born calf...Anyway, I'm gonna fatten that dude up.

22lr or 300WSM, hmmmmmm...(grin)

Mebbe a Rat 3pt makes Crosseyed & Crockett?!!?.............

Nostalgia wouldn't allow me to gun anything other than a 22lr and Grandpa's '74 at that...............

My favorite is the base of the skull from behind for whacking beef..but unless they had a busted back, that angle is a bit tuff to get!

Grandpa's old pump 22lr Marlin is sittin' downstairs and might possibly work.

Better bring a back-up in case it jams.

Chuck went down south last year and he said that he saw an unbelievable amount of 4pt mule deer standing on the side of the road. He called me on his cell he was so amazed. His wife shot a 4pt on public land, and he passed on many 180's in hopes of a 190+. Why can't KC kill a 4pt?

Agreed. Tis why I like the grain in a coffee can.

I'm just plum lazy.

BMT

I've no qualm with a downhill going away poke,as it is surrounded by more than a buncha goody............

Only fitting.

Good call.............

One time while helping a bud brand calves, we had a bull bust his leg perty good...Bud asked if anyone had a gun handy and asked how much burger eatch of us wanted... A guy steps up and say's he'll be right back...Goes to the truck and gets his 7RM, and shoulders the big sumbitch!! We all looked at each other with a WTF look on our face, then busted out laffin...it dropped him, fast!

She shoots with one eye open and it's the crossed one?!!?............

Never gave Beef Baiting a thunk,but you IS onto something there.................

Place the can where you want them to fall.

BMT

TFF, whatever's handy!

well, most of us ASSUMED a head shot at least!

T'was a bullet test.

Was it a tsx?

Did it way over-penetrate on the Bull?

BMT

Unless that was on the Henry mountains, I'd take it with a pound of salt..

Core-lokt!

Deadliest Mushroom in the Woods, er.. . . Barn.

BMT

Wyoming, somewhere.. I've seen the video of the hunt too. Crazy amount of bucks. Can't believe anybody living within driving distance wouldn't have at least a few 4pts. Hell, guys on this forum get good ones every year!

Not trying to call a guy I dont even know a liar..but I bet the truth was stretched a bit ...180 muleys dont come in great numbers anywhere, but ya, a 4 point aint all that hard to come by. He was prolly in a good draw area to boot, cant drive to WY and buy a tag anywhere big bucks live! (as a non-resident anyway)

Talked to an old hunting pard who lives in Northern Utah the other day. He's killed more than a few over 30 inches. Says there is a monster bigger than any thing he's ever killed within 2 miles of his suburban home. Know way he'll pull a tag for years to come.

In Oregon that same buck would be poached in a week.

I'm in northern UT, the Wasatch front has some giants on it..Its archery only, but its a tag you can get every year.

Maybe I got the horn scores mixed up in my head then. I'm not too familiar with Mule Deer scores. Just looked at their pics on FB, and his wife killed a pretty nice 4pt, and he was holding out for a bigger one.

He ain't a stick flicker, so I guess he doesn't have a pray.

It would be like me saying I came to POW and seen so many 100" bucks, that I was holding out for a 110", just to put it in perspective..

Which is possible I guess, but very unlikely!

Passing many 180s.. road hunting, in Wyoming? Right.

Sam, let me know next time you're on hog or cow slaughter duty, I know somebody with skills.

Are you telling me there aren't 180 bucks behind every tree in Wyoming Greenhorn?

Why, here in Idaho they are as common as 90 lb kings in Ship Creek in downtown Anchorage.

Pissing contest aside, KC's buck isn't one many let walk on public land in the west I assure you.

We'd simply waltz the victims to the upper pasture,gun 'em and grab hold with a backhoe...then hang in the cold room...........

Poor old dumb K-She,she tries(at everything).

Her Rat avatar Buck is funny in a fullsize pic,but she's thus far only been brave enough to hang it once and it really didn't have the "affect" she was hopin'..............(grin)

So -

The trophy makes the hunter or what?

He who kills the biggest bull/bear/ram/buck has the biggest tool?

Telling - in a most freudian kind of way.

Here is news - one must not be tall to be grand. There is hope for you, yet.

Poor,poor K-She...she likes to flap her gums about all sorts of things and is troubled with reading text to boot. Though in fairness,it all adds up,to some First Rate Humor.

I'd be unable to formulate an extrapolation,that would allow the smallest to hang with the biggest,of any Species. But hell,I'm all ears and would dig your attempt at sugarcoating that one.

K-She is the biggest tool and it don't matter what she shoots,though if you wanna giggle,get her to say something in the firsthand about rifles and such. Hell,even SHE knows better!

Here's a tidbit,talk is cheap...just ask K-She,it's the only "results" she's afforded. Couple/few puns there.............

Sorry to disappoint - I will do no sugar coats. I just know that beauty lies in the eye of the beholder.

Therefore - a yearling forkpoint might be a more valued trophy to me, if the hunt for him was special in any possible way - over the goldmedal buck taken like a "Elfmeter" w/o goalie.

TETO.

Other than that, I recognize people on many levels of experience here.

Many say wise things - some redundant stuff and some downright stupid things.

TETO, there too.

Thing about talk being cheap - I follow a different philosophy.

Calling it a day now - going hunting ITM. Up at three.

You can Bullschitt the Fans,but you can't Bullschitt the Players............

My view:

Not every woman is a Trophy either............

You remain clueless and are not afraid to show it.

Insinuating me to be BSing is uncalled for and ignorant.

Fare well.

I've zero doubt,that you impress far easier than I and that things I routinely walk past,would exceed your best efforts and wildest dreams.

Sorta puts it poignantly into context,don't it?...............

That is pretty much your standard line.

If you fail to realize, with whom it rings true and with whom it does not, you are out of touch with reality.

I, in that case, will not be the lightning rod to ground your soaring ego.

Check the "eyes thread" for your childrens hearings sake.

Other than that, I am done with this foolishness.

You were done before you started and don't think that isn't funny..................

i miss pale white cracker! someone please invite him back.

Cracker RULES!..............

Eh, he's a NOBODY....

Undoubtedly..............

Douche Adair,

Ever get off the couch?............(yet)

Just long enough to to shoot things with the 308...

I was thinking about you earlier today when I woke up in a tent at 7200' 5 miles from the truck. Damn flatlands.... I'd hand pixels, but the ex got the cameras in the divorce

I came home and drank two Mikes Hard Lemonaide's and took a nap on the couch...

Next weekend, I'll likely be scouting in the Breaks

I have a pet NEF in 308 and shots flat out to 200 yards, with a barska 6.5x20x50 scope and it puts the hammer on deer and black bear, easy to carry and weight is just right for walking 3-5 miles+!!! 308 has so many loads and accuracy is hard tobeat without the recoil of a magnum, still can't understand why people don't use this caliber more here in WV!!!

A Barska????

HAHAHAHA!

For real?

You are THE Queen of excuses..............

Thats all you got, you [bleep] poser?

Facts ain't never not ample.............

Dude..